The Olivet Discourse

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Because its a non sequitur to equate END TIME EVENTS with events that happened before God was finished with mankind on earth and to try and replace Israel with the Church. The 70th Week is about Israel's JUDGMENT, Israel will be PROTECTED for 1260 days, the Wrath of God lasts 1260 days, although I see that as irrelevant. The Church is not Israel in the end anyway. 

The church will be in Heaven marrying the Lamb just like Rev. 19 says. Yes, its you that doesn't get it brother, you have your mind made up so Rev. 19 doesn't even exist. 

That's funny, Jesus related end time events to the days of Noah.

No one is replacing Israel with the church, Israel and the church are one and the same.

If God's wrath is 1260 days then pretrib is now midtrib.

Rev 19 does not say that marriage supper occurred years prior. You made that up.

Rev 19 is real, your understanding is off.

[Daniel 11:36]

" This is not about what I want or don't want.   Its about what is the truth and its proclamation.   Your statement indicates that, under the circumstances of today's society,  that you prefer the proclamation of a lie,  rather than a falling away that results from knowing the truth.   True?"

 

Yes it is what you want .... discounting Biblical truth is not a good idea

[Revelation Man]

59 minutes ago, Diaste said:

That's funny, Jesus related end time events to the days of Noah.

 

No, not really, the Days of Noah was compared to the Pre Tribulation Rapture, as I have explained on multiple occasions. The Second Coming will NOT be preceded by people Marrying, eating, partying etc. etc. the whole picture being painted lends to a surprise, hence they were acting naturally or normal, that will not be the case at the Second Coming, Gods Wrath will be upon the Wicked, so that is like saying those in the Flood Waters were Marrying and giving in Marriage, which is of course ludicrous, we know that just can't be the case. 

Jesus related the Rapture to as the Days of Noah.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

 No one is replacing Israel with the church, Israel and the church are one and the same.

 

No they aren't, that comes from not understanding what was put forth in the scriptures. Maybe its the Old Englishe, maybe its the translation, or the authors writing style, whatever the reason, I understand so I think others should understand it also. Paul is just sating we all come to God BY FAITH, nowhere is he saying that Israel are now Gentiles. God Deals with Israel AFTER the Church has been Raptured, they are BLINDED until the time of the Gentiles is come full. God deals with Israel AFTER THE RAPTURE, during the 70th Week, these are just facts. It really doesn't matter to God who understands them pr not, Hes going to go forth with His plans anyway.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

 If God's wrath is 1260 days then pretrib is now midtrib.

 

No, it is a 7 YEAR EVENT.......Just like the Jewish Groom & Bride stay in the Marriage Chambers for 7 Days.  The 70th Week is 7 Years. The Marriage is a 7 Year Event in Heaven. 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

 Rev 19 does not say that marriage supper occurred years prior. You made that up.

 

I never stated that......SHOW IT TO ME..........I understand the Marriage Supper is ARMAGEDDON........On Earth. The Marriage is in Heaven, that happens BEFORE Rev. chapters 4 and 5, where we see the Church with White Robes/Raiment on. 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

 Rev 19 is real, your understanding is off.

You do not seem to understand it, else you would understand it can not exist without a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

So, you recognize that the last 1260 days is the "wrath of God", BUT before that it is not?   

In referring to the time of Jacobs trouble,  during the great tribulation,  Daniel 12:1 says that everyone found written in the book [of life] shall be delivered.   He implies being kept thru that time,  without being removed. 

And so seemingly you don't understand that Daniel is speaking about Jews here hey?

Yes, the Jewish peoples for the most part will not know Christ until the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 to turn Israel back unto God (Malachi 4:5-6). There will be some Messianic Jews hence Israel are only BLINDED IN PART, not in full, hence Paul, Peter, Matthew, and other Messianic Jews, so some Messianic Jews will be Raptured, BUT....The Jews who repent during the 70th Week will be DELIVERED by Micheal, read Rev. ch. 12, the Woman is ISRAEL !! Micheal delivers her/God Protects them for 1260 days. The REMNANT CHURCH is not delivered, the Dragon who can't get at the Woman does kill the REMNANT CHURCH, they are the Martyrs seen under the Alter in the 5th Seal. So you are CONFLATING Israel and the Church here. 

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

*[[Dan 12:1]] KJV* And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

How do you justify the removal of the church,  [is your name in the book of life?] If God has promised to DELIVER everyone of his people that is found written in the book?  

Blessings

The Church is already in Heaven, you have a Bride of Christ (Church) and a Bride of God (Israel). God married Israel LONG AGO !! 

[Daniel 11:36]

 

" No one is replacing Israel with the church, Israel and the church are one and the same"

 

This is where you are wrong .... Israel and the church are different .... very different

There are a few of Israel who have joined the church but most of Israel has not

When the church is gone Israel will become front and center during the coming tribulation period

[Diaste]

37 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

No, not really, the Days of Noah was compared to the Pre Tribulation Rapture, as I have explained on multiple occasions. The Second Coming will NOT be preceded by people Marrying, eating, partying etc. etc. the whole picture being painted lends to a surprise, hence they were acting naturally or normal, that will not be the case at the Second Coming, Gods Wrath will be upon the Wicked, so that is like saying those in the Flood Waters were Marrying and giving in Marriage, which is of course ludicrous, we know that just can't be the case. 

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall the coming of the son of man be. For they were eating and marrying and giving in marriage and knew not until the flood took them away.

You can explain all you wish. I'm beginning to think you don't really know much scripture at all.

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Jesus related the Rapture to as the Days of Noah.

No. There is no pretrib rapture. 

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nowhere is he saying that Israel are now Gentiles.

You're right. The gentiles are now of the seed of Abraham, same as true Israel. 

You just don't understand this stuff do you? More asking for understanding in your prayers might help.

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No, it is a 7 YEAR EVENT.......Just like the Jewish Groom & Bride stay in the Marriage Chambers for 7 Days.  The 70th Week is 7 Years. The Marriage is a 7 Year Event in Heaven.

So a day is just like a year now? Well I never....

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I never stated that......SHOW IT TO ME..........I understand the Marriage Supper is ARMAGEDDON........On Earth. The Marriage is in Heaven, that happens BEFORE Rev. chapters 4 and 5, where we see the Church with White Robes/Raiment on. 

My apologies. That's disgusting.

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You do not seem to understand it, else you would understand it can not exist without a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

Again, you are way out there.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall the coming of the son of man be. For they were eating and marrying and giving in marriage and knew not until the flood took them away.

You can explain all you wish. I'm beginning to think you don't really know much scripture at all.

Which is more telling of you then isn't it? Because you can't overcome any of my arguments, all you can do is make quips. ow try again, tell me why just before the Second Coming people will be Marrying Eating and acting as if nothing has happened. You can't, because it makes no sense that way, but since you are dead set against a Pre trib Rapture, it just has to be, regardless of the facts. 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

No. There is no pretrib rapture. 

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We know you can't see it........that doesn't change the facts though. 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

You're right. The gentiles are now of the seed of Abraham, same as true Israel. 

You just don't understand this stuff do you? More asking for understanding in your prayers might help.

They are OF ABRAHAM via BELIEVING/FAITH. They are not OF ABRAHAM via his Earthly Seed.  Then again, I wouldn't expect you to see this either., its a pattern I see all too many times.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

So a day is just like a year now? Well I never....

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Mmmmmm yea, go read the Prophesies, what do you think the 490 Days stand for in Daniel chapter 9 ?

Daniel's vision of the " seventy weeks" (490 days)

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city ... from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks ... And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease..." (Daniel 9:24-27)

The "week" referred to here represents (primarily) a symbolic seven-year period. Thus once again, one day is made to signify one year. Here is why Daniel's "week" denotes seven years:

a) This vision (of ch. 9) came to Daniel upon his understanding that the 70 years of Israelite exile (as prophesied by Jeremiah) had just elapsed:

"In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem" (Daniel 9:2).

It is reasonable to deduce that since the occasion for Daniel's vision was his understanding of the 70 years of Jeremiah, and that since the vision to Daniel concerned a like number of 70 weeks, therefore 70 weeks can equal 70 (x 7) years. Nevertheless, Daniel's "week" as a literal 7-day-period is also a valid interpretation. Both days and years weave together.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Again, you are way out there.

No, 90 percent of Christendom agrees with me on the Rapture. I do understand Prophecy however, whereas most don't.

[Revelation Man]

5 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

I fully recognize the reference to the children of Israel who ARE in the book of life.   You miss my point.   Dan. 12:1 demonstrates God's protection for those whose names are written in the book of life and not having to remove them from planet earth.   Is not every born again believer written in that book too?   

You have shown the time for the wrath of God [1260 days].   And you have declared that Jesus talked about the rapture in the O.D.  AND here we have God protecting the righteous elect in Dan 12.  And yet you would still say that the church is removed prior to "the tribulation".  The original point in the O.P. was to show that the tribulation is  the wrath of God.   I am trying figure out your basis for removing the church.  The only thing that i find you saying is that it is based on the Jewish wedding.   And a tradition as such?   No scriptures?  Jesus did not have a very friendly attitude towards the traditions of men rising above the written word.   

Blessings

The PuP 

The church has nothing to do with the Jews who REPENT after the RAPTURE (Daniel 12). Why do you think Daniel/Gabriel would be mentioning a Church which is ALREADY in Heaven? God of course is silent on this its NOT RELEVANT to the Jews.  I mean if you just place all of the pieces of the puzzle on the table it should be obvious what is going on here. We have Israel whom God forsakes for 2000 years, we have the CHURCH AGE, once the Church Age (Harvest/Pentecost) is over at the LAST TRUMP (Feast of Trumps) then the Feast of ATONEMENT is next (Israel must ATONE just like the 70 Week Prophecy says). Then the Feast of TABERNACLE is next, thus after Israel REPENT/ATONES, they DWELL with God which is what TABERNACLE MEANS !! Follow the clues brother. 

Jesus is the one via his very words that gives us the Clues about the Wedding Traditions I am speaking of, you have just missed them brother.

THE CLUES/PUZZLE PIECES BELOW:

1.) Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Rapture). 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

2.) Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:(1260 Event) 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

3.) 1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The Church is raised to Heaven, the Jews are RESCUED afterwards, unless they are Messianic Jews of course !!  When the time of the Gentiles are come full, the Rapture happens, then we go to heaven to where Jesus has prepared a place for us. Then the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 Event and turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Dreadful Day (1260 Event) of the Lord. 

As per what Jesus spoke about the Jewish Wedding Traditions, you have herd, but you haven't put it all together , but its there. 

The Jewish Wedding Pattern which Jesus used to teach us the Bride/Church about things in juxtaposition unto Him the Groom.

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

1 – Selection of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The Son chooses the Bride – the Father makes the arrangements
Church - John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .”

2 – The Bride Price established
Jewish Wedding - The father of the bride must be reimbursed for the loss of his daughter.
Church - I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross.

We who are saved by Jesus were sought by the Lord. (Isaiah 65:1) Jesus paid the price on Passover. The appointed times of First-fruits and Unleavened Bread complete the picture of Jesus being resurrected and being sinless, the spotless Lamb of God.

3 – The Betrothal 
Jewish Wedding - More than mere “engagement”, it was a permanent arrangement. Recall the story of Joseph and Mary.
Church – The attachment of the Church to the Lord is also permanent, and forever. “This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” (John 6:58) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

4 – The Marriage Contract
Jewish Wedding – A written agreement committing each party to the marriage.
Church - The entire Holy Bible is our written agreement containing the promises of God. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31)

5 – The Bride must consent
Jewish Wedding – This is not entirely an arranged marriage; the bride must agree.
Church – “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;” (Mark 16:16) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

6 – The Bridal Gift and the Cup of the Covenant
Jewish Wedding – A glass of wine is taken upon the signing of the contract.
Church – Each time we gather around the Lord’s Table, we remember the “contract.” “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28)
Jewish Wedding – The Bride is given a gift by the groom.

Church - The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus –– “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) This, of course, occurred on the Day of Pentecost.

7 – The Ceremonial Purification of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The next step for the Bride after she is betrothed is a ceremonial cleansing. In Biblical times the Bride would use a Mikvah, which was pool of water, in which she would immerse herself.
Church - Acts 2:41 – “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized (immersed); and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].”

The Church is an insertion in the Lord's Plan. Israel was the original bride. I believe that the Lord Jesus will come for His bride, the Church, in a separate event (the Rapture) from the Lord's return for His bride, Israel. From this point forward in the Jewish Wedding process, following the purification of the bride, in my opinion the Church will be dealt with separately in the time defined as the Church Age, or the Age of Grace. This period of time will extend from the first Day of Pentecost to the day when the Lord Jesus calls us Home.

8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house
Church - John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.”

The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)

9 – The Bride is consecrated and set apart
Church - First Peter 2:9 – “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.”

10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!” 
Church - First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.”

Let me insert an additional hope at this point. When the Lord Jesus comes for His Bride, the Church, we will not be totally surprised. Although the Jewish bride did not know the day or the hour, she was expectant. The Apostle Paul in speaking of “that Day” said, “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day.” (First Thessalonians 5:4-5) Today, many in the Church are expectant and will not be totally surprised.

11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Church – This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church, and is described in Isaiah 26:20; “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.” Praise the Lord!

12 – The Marriage Supper
Church – “‘Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, ‘Write: Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” (The Revelation 19:7-9)

 

In my opinion, the Feast of Pentecost is still being fulfilled and will be completed when the Lord Jesus comes for His bride.

 

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I believe that in the remaining steps of the Jewish Wedding process, the steps will be fulfilled for Israel in a separate manner.

The next appointed time is the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is a mysterious time. Of all the feasts, or appointed times, little is said of it and no scriptural reason for the feast is given. (see Leviticus 23:23-25) A trumpet (the Shofar) is blown. Trumpets make announcements. I suspect that the Feast of Trumpets will be when the Lord in some manner announces the time has come for the fulfillment of His plan for Israel.

The steps of the traditional Jewish wedding:

8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house
Jewish Wedding – In Biblical times the groom would add a room to his father’s house. At that time, families lived together.
The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding.

9 – The Bride is consecrated and set apart
Jewish Wedding – The Bride is spoken for and belongs to no one else. Again, refer to Mary and Joseph. (Matthew 1:18-19)
At this point in the process, the Bride is always in readiness. She does not know when the Groom will return for her. For example, see Matthew 25 – The Parable of the Ten Virgins.

10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!” 
Jewish Wedding – This was frequently done at midnight for surprise. Matthew 25:6 (the Parable of the Ten Virgins) – “And at midnight a cry (shout) was [heard]: ‘Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him!’”

Scripture tells us that a prophetic day can equal a year.

“After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, [even] forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities.” - Numbers 14:34

The seven days the Jewish bride and groom spend in the wedding chamber appear to equate to seven prophetic years, which parallels the last seven years of Daniel’s prophecy, and is the basis for the concept of seven years of Tribulation.

11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Jewish Wedding - The marriage was consummated in the wedding chamber. The Bride and Groom stayed in that wedding chamber for seven days.

12 – The Marriage Supper
Jewish Wedding – A wedding feast was given for the Bride and Groom.
After the traditional Jewish Wedding the Bride and Groom lived together. This fits the picture of the Lord living, or tabernacling, with His people in the Kingdom Age and forever !

The Children of Israel were also instructed to live in booths or tents during this feast. This was to be a memorial of the time when the Lord delivered Israel from Egypt. The Feast of Tabernacles is about Deliverance and will be fulfilled when the Lord delivers Israel from her enemies. Then there will be a New Beginning for the Kingdom of God and His two brides.

The prophetic parallels between the Jewish Wedding and the Church’s Biblical Wedding are simply amazing! What a wonderful picture and wonderful hope this pattern gives to those who are saved and are the Children of God. And only the God of Creation could place this pattern within and throughout the sixty-six books of His Word. Our Heavenly Father is the ultimate Wedding Planner! May His name be praised forever!

Israel, on earth, fulfills the last two Feasts. The Feast of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacle during the 70th Week, thereby the repent and dwell with God on earth for the 1000 year reign as the bible clearly states, and all nations will come up to Jerusalem. Amen!

[Daniel 11:36]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

So Jesus,  in Matt 24, does  NOT address the church with the commands to watch AND be ready?   Would you care to tell me how watching and being ready applies only to Israel?

 

 

Mathew 24 is a focus upon Israel during the coming tribulation period

You are trying to apply this to the church even before the church was instituted

I believe that you are one who has either been deceived, or you are intentionally teaching a falsehood on purpose

Edited June 25, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

So Jesus,  in Matt 24, does  NOT address the church with the commands to watch AND be ready?   Would you care to tell me how watching and being ready applies only to Israel?  [I would suggest defining the two terms and in essence where the trumpet and vial judgments (of Revelation), are found in Matthew,  seeing that they will be among the [last] events to take place before the return of Jesus].  If Paul tells the church to watch and be sober,  what then is watching? 

Blessings

The PuP 

Jesus addresses the Jews who were of course a PART OF THE CHURCH. Of course Jesus/God, knowing all things understood the Christian/Gentile-Church would read his words later, just like we read the 10 Commandments, but the 10 Commandments were aimed directly at the Jews, as was Jesus speaking unto the Jews what their fate would be. So some would die like Paul, Peter and others and be raised (1 Cor. chapter 15) and some would be CHANGED in the Twinkling of an Eye (there are Messianic Jews today, OF COURSE) but most Jews who come to Christ will do so after the Rapture, 1/3 of all Jews REPENT !! The other 2/3 don't or of they do they can't make it to Petra. 

You WATCH to BE READY............that is what to means. You don't have to watch during the Tribulation, anyone there can understand what 1260 Days means. The Beast RULES 1260 days. They will be able to countdown the 7 Vials as they see them come to pass.