The Olivet Discourse

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Explain those words [watch,  be ready]  in a pretrib mindset.   When Jesus says to watch he said it in the context of "you don't know the day or hour".

When he says be ready,  he says that in context of him "coming at an hour that you think not".  But he says to

watch

AND

be ready. 

He is implicating that there is a difference between the two.   You say,  and I agree,  that it applies to the time before the rapture.   Tell me how they are different. 

Blessings

The PuP 

I thought I had already conveyed this, sorry if I didn't, but I think somewhere back I did, or maybe it was on another site about Matthew 24. Oh well.

Jesus is clearly not speaking about the End Time Second Coming here, the Jews will be protected in Petra, there will be a 1260 day countdown. They thus are being told to WATCH or be on guard for Jesus Christ calling the Church home, his SHOUT to the Bride, and to not let their guard down.

The WATCH is probably not what you perceive my friend, it means to WATCH your actions, the way you live, do not SLEEP but stay AWAKE, or be hip to Satan and his wile ways. 

The apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Corinth, "Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong" (1 Corinthians 16:13). The rest of the verse is clear, but what does "watch" mean ?

Paul wasn't telling us to be passive spectators of entertainment or anything else. He meant something far different. It is spiritual watching coupled with prayer that gives one the strength to survive temptations and difficult situations. The focus needs to be on New Testament scriptures with the verb "watch",  important scriptures that are often misunderstood, ignored and neglected. How important is it that we "watch" ? Consider this: The biblical command to watch is several times coupled with the command to pray. Is prayer important ? Extremely so ! And so is the command to watch !

Watch means to stay wide awake

When the New Testament commands us to "watch," it is usually the translation of one of two Greek words ( gregoreuo and agrupneo ), which have similar meanings--to “stay awake” and to “be sleepless.” They are usually meant in the metaphorical and spiritual sense, to be vigilant and on guard, fully awake, aware, alert and intently focused, with several applications and implications.

In Matthew 26:37-40, the meaning of "watch" is primarily physical. Jesus was chiding the disciples for not remaining awake during the hour preceding His arrest.

But what Jesus next said to Peter had a deeper, spiritual meaning: "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing [i.e., intentions are good], but the flesh [mere human willpower] is weak" (Matthew 26:41). It is spiritual watching coupled with prayer that gives one the strength to survive temptations and difficult situations.

"Awake to righteousness, and do not sin" (1 Corinthians 15:34). Being awake is equated with righteousness and not sinning. Paul was writing to the church at Corinth, which shows that even true Christians can be spiritually asleep to varying degrees.

Paul also wrote: "And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed" (Romans 13:11). In other words, the closer we draw to the second coming of Christ, the more urgent it is that we awake out of spiritual sleep! Indeed, we have entered the fearful end-time years that are the grand climax of human civilization. If ever there was a time to pay attention and get prepared, it is now! Furthermore, none of us knows when he or she will die. Being spiritually prepared for the end of life should be our top priority.

Watching means properly using our minds.

God gave us marvelous minds to use -to study, learn, observe, analyze, judge and think. Life is time. To waste time is to waste life. Many people are mentally lazy, wasting a tragic amount of time on the trivial and temporal, mundane and materialistic. Many squander countless hours vegetating in front of their TV or computer seeking only to be entertained. 

WATCH = TO STAY AWAKE !! Do not go to sleep on Satan and his wile ways ! We need to stay alert, we need to always be ready, we need to always be AWAKE !! We need to watch always. 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Daniel 11:36]

"I simply asked you to explain your understanding of watch and being ready.  Can you not explain how that applies only to Israel? 

Blessings"

 

It does in Matthew 24 son

Now I see what you are doing

We will go no further at this juncture

I do not like people who intentionally play games with scripture like you do

[Daniel 11:36]

Absolutely correct Soj

[n2thelight]

This is what Jesus said at the end of the Olivet Discourse:

Mark 13:37 “And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

The only reason pre-tribbers want to believe that the Olivet Discourse is “only talking to the Jews” is to explain away these key verses:

Matt 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

 

So I take it He just meant all Jew's

Edited June 28, 2018 by n2thelight

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

This is what Jesus said at the end of the Olivet Discourse:

Mark 13:37 “And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

The only reason pre-tribbers want to believe that the Olivet Discourse is “only talking to the Jews” is to explain away these key verses:

Matt 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

 

So I take it He just meant all Jew's

We preach the truth, we don't care about what others think. You guys not being able to sift through the scriptures and see what the vast majority of Christians clearly see does not reflect on our understandings one whit. The passage above is a prime example, I don't think if Jesus came back and explained it himself post tribbers would understand it. 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

Please explain.   When you say this: 

"we don't care about what others think."

You seem to be saying that (your)  understanding does not come from the majority opinion [of what others think],  but from another source (???), 

And turn right around and say,  

"and [that we cannot] see what the vast majority of Christians clearly see doesnot reflect on our understanding",

implies that your understanding is in fact,  the majority opinion.   You are either contradicting yourself,  or I am not understanding what you are saying.   please clarify. 

Thanks

The PuP 

It means exactly what it confers. We are not to be respecter of men in no wise, thus when people led by the Holy Spirit, convey they truth, we are not worrying about men's traditions and/or beliefs. So when I hear from the Holy Spirit its settled, I could care less what men say. It just so happens that most of Christendom, collectively, usually get the biblical passages correct, because of course the Church is led by the Holy Spirit. 

So there is A REASON the Church is usually right, AND there is a REASON singular men are not to be listened to per se. Now there are SINGULAR MEN who can be listened to because they preach what the unction of the Holy Spirit is presenting, then there are other who are not only wrong on a few things, but I find they are usually wrong on many things, and there are a few that are wrong on one or two issues (as we all are, we are only human) but right 90-95 percent of the time. This only means like I stated earlier, we are humans who are fallible, but when people are wrong on everything its usually pretty easy to understand what is going on. We have to separate those two types, thus I never trust men, I trust the Holy Spirit. 

My understanding comes from the Holy Spirit, I only know what others say, thus if doesn't agree with the Holy Spirit I don't agree with it. End of story. 

 

[Steve Conley]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:56 PM, Revelation Man said:

This of course happens right before the Tribulation, or Jacobs Troubles. If this actually happened during the Tribulation period would they be Drinking/Marrying and having a grand ole time? No, of course not, that makes no sense, the Jewish nation will be in hiding in the Wilderness, (Rev. 12) and the wicked men of earth will be dodging the plagues of Gods Wrath, there will be no one who will be having fun just before Jesus' SECOND COMING, that I can assure you !! So this is the Rapture here, we are expectant, but Surprised when Jesus Returns. The World during Gods Wrath will not be surprised, the 6th Seal is the Gathering of nations unto Meggido for Armageddon, so does anyone really think that Jesus showing up on The Mt. of Olives at Vial number 7 is going to be a surprise? NO.....The Anti-Christ has exactly 42 Months to rule. The Rapture is a surprise, the Day of the Lord comes upon the ones living in the Dark (of the World/Satan), not those of us living in the Light (Jesus).

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

RM, the reason that you come to the conclusion that you do is that you fail to realize that the "great tribulation" is just a tribulation upon the elect (all believers in Christ, the church) and Israel not upon the earth dwellers. The Beast worshippers are "having a party" right up until the time that Christ arrives and we are resurrected and raptured. There are numerous statements which make this truth clear.

First, we will look at Christ's words as recorded by Luke.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Here we see a consistent M.O. (modus operandi) with the Lord. The day of the rescue of the just, is the very day that wrath is poured out upon the wicked. Jesus says it will be the same when He is revealed.

Next, Paul speaks of this truth in relation to Christ's revelation and coming. He says that the day that the church rests from tribulation (persecution) is the day Christ begins to tribulate those who persecuted us. Notice that Paul is talking to the church, there can be no claim here that this is for the Jew.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Notice that the saints rest when His vengeance is executed upon the Christ rejecters. This vengeance comes upon the day of the Lord. It is this tribulation of the wicked by Christ in the day of the Lord that we are said to be not appointed unto.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
...
1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Notice that they will be saying peace and safety before sudden destruction comes upon them. That goes right along with what Jesus said would be happening, that they would be buying and selling, planting and building, eating and drinking, and marrying and giving in marriage. So the Scriptures say that there is business as usual and the perception of peace and safety before Christ is revealed and we are rescued. However, for the saints, there will be persecution even great tribulation right up until the day Christ's wrath falls upon the earth dwellers.

Even so come Lord Jesus.

[n2thelight]

On 6/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Church is already in Heaven, you have a Bride of Christ (Church) and a Bride of God (Israel). God married Israel LONG AGO !! 

John 10:30 "I and My Father are one.

When did the Church get to Heaven?

[n2thelight]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We preach the truth, we don't care about what others think. You guys not being able to sift through the scriptures and see what the vast majority of Christians clearly see does not reflect on our understandings one whit. The passage above is a prime example, I don't think if Jesus came back and explained it himself post tribbers would understand it. 

I just gave you straight scripture of what Christ Himself said,what part you don't care about?

[n2thelight]

On 6/25/2018 at 7:01 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

 

 

Mathew 24 is a focus upon Israel during the coming tribulation period

You are trying to apply this to the church even before the church was instituted

I believe that you are one who has either been deceived, or you are intentionally teaching a falsehood on purpose

Why do you feel that it's just a focus on Israel,what verses in scripture leads you to believe that?