The Olivet Discourse

[Spock]

So, just to wrap things up here.....can I get a big AMEN if you believe the Olivet Discourse (OD) was primarily  written for the Jews because this really affects them, and did not really have the Church in mind. Much of the stuff in the OD has to do with the 70th week of Daniel and many of us know, we are either not in the 70th week or if we are there, it is only for a short time.....definitely before the abomination of desolation.

I will start....

AMEN! 

OD is also found in Mark 13, Luke 21, as well as Matthew 24-25

[The Light]

On 6/27/2019 at 8:32 AM, iamlamad said:

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Rev 5: 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Lamad wrote: I have said over and over that this passage shows TIMING and the movement of time.

 

Here is the timing. We don't need to imagine anything. God gives us the timing as being in the future. Which has been shown to you over and over and over and over. Do you think I would believe your imaginary scenario or the Word of God. I'll go with God on this one, and every one, everytime.

Rev 4

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

 

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There was a time when Jesus was NOT WORTHY to open the book. That is an absolute fact

No, that's your imagination running loose again. Jesus says if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father. I'm going to believe the Word over your imagination, every time.

John 14

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

 

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- and it is why "no man was found worthy." Then in the next search Jesus WAS found: why? Because He had just BECOME worthy. See? It is the movement of time.

This is, of course, contrary to what scripture says. If we have seen Jesus, we have seen the Father.

 

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Now, show me here where I have changed the meaning of any word.

No problem. Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

You told me that I had added the word  ONLY to this statement. I didn't need to add anything. The word - hereafter - speaks for itself. It proves everything you are saying is malarkey. It is you that are adding words. You are saying that the word is talking about things that are hereafter, and things before, which is not the truth. You are adding words to scripture or changing the meaning of words to bring forth an imaginary idea of what the word is saying.

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If you don't believe this, they why don't each of you show me the REAL reason why this search ended in failure. In other words, put your money where your mouth is - so to speak. Prove me wrong with good exegesis.

The search did not end in failure. The Lion of the tribe of Judah HATH PREVAILED to open the book and loose the seals thereof.

Rev 5

⁵ And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

 

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I don't know why your posts never quote. I have to copy and paste to get your words in.

Suspect this is a spiritual thing. Someone is probably trying to tell you to listen, not talk.

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Since you say my theory is made up, imagination, wrong, and proving me wrong will be no challenge, tell us all the real truth here.

Ok, here's the truth

It was not a challenge to prove you wrong. As I said - Getting you to quit imagining things when scripture says different is the challenge. And I don't know why you keep using the word US, when I see no one agreeing with you.

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Answer this question: WHY was John weeping, and WHY was it much?

John was weeping because he didn't realize that the Lion of the tribe of Judah HATH PREVAILED to open the book. He is the Lamb of God.

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But before this question, you have to answer this one: WHY was Jesus not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father? There are a dozen verses showing us that is where He should have been in 95 AD.

All the events happen in the future. We see the Lamb at the right hand of God. John is shown events that would happen hereafter. We know that the Gospel was already being spread prior to John seeing a window of heaven opened. We can see the Church in heaven also. This is also a future event.

Rev 5

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

⁷ And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

⁸ And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

⁹ And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by The Light

[Montana Marv]

Iamlamad

Have you ever considered that the Bridegroom may have been in the chamber with the Bride at this time, giving out rewards.  Not until He exits does He, the One who is Worthy, take the scroll.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[JoeCanada]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

So, just to wrap things up here.....can I get a big AMEN if you believe the Olivet Discourse (OD) was primarily  written for the Jews because this really affects them, and did not really have the Church in mind. Much of the stuff in the OD has to do with the 70th week of Daniel and many of us know, we are either not in the 70th week or if we are there, it is only for a short time.....definitely before the abomination of desolation.

I will start....

AMEN! 

OD is also found in Mark 13, Luke 21, as well as Matthew 24-25

Hi Spock....

You say that the OD (and the 70th week of Daniel) was written primarily for the Jews, and not the Church.

How do we really know who is Jewish? I mean, how many of us, going way, way, way back, might have some Jewish ancestry? Maybe only part Jewish ancestry.....even a little bit. 

For instance, my late wife was English, born on an American Air Force base in England with a surname Campbell....yet had some Native American bloodline...only a little bit, but still it was there. 

Do we really know?

In Marks Gospel, chapter 13:37....Jesus says.."What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert'.

Who is the "all"? Is it to "all the Jews" only?

Now Mathews Gospel was clearly written for a Jewish Christian audience. Do we  then separate the Jew from the Christian?......to maintain peoples beliefs that the Olivet Discourse was only for the Jew?

Are Jewish Christians not part of the Church?

Then we have Luke's Gospel, clearly written for a Gentile audience. Yet, the same Olivet Discourse presented in Matt 24 is here in Luke 21.

Where do we draw the line?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

 Here is the timing. We don't need to imagine anything. God gives us the timing as being in the future. Which has been shown to you over and over and over and over. Do you think I would believe your imaginary scenario or the Word of God. I'll go with God on this one, and every one, everytime.

Rev 4

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

 

After this....  After WHAT? King James puts it, "after these things." This is in reference to JOHN ONLY, nothing about the future and nothing about things God is showing John. Jesus dictated to John some letters for the church , and after the dictation, God wanted to show him a vision.  Just so you know, John used a similar phrase 6 different times in Revelation, as a TRANSITIONAL phrase where God was changing subjects with John.  It has NOTHING to do with the timing inside of john's narrative.  So who really is using imagination? Does "after this" have ANYTHING to do with the vision of chapters 4 & 5? You should know it does not. So far, you wasted words and time on nonsense. You think I use imagination? 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

No, that's your imagination running loose again. Jesus says if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father. I'm going to believe the Word over your imagination, every time.

Lamad had written: " There was a time when Jesus was NOT WORTHY to open the book. That is an absolute fact "

You amaze me: your answer has nothing to do with anyone being found worthy to open the book! You do a lot of side stepping, yet you think I have imagination.  You just wasted more time. I wonder, do you call this good exegesis? It is not even a good argument.

Perhaps you don't even understand the question.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

This is, of course, contrary to what scripture says. If we have seen Jesus, we have seen the Father.

Lamad had written: - and it is why "no man was found worthy." Then in the next search Jesus WAS found: why? Because He had just BECOME worthy. See? It is the movement of time.

Again an answer to nothing. It is not even related to the question. If this was an official debate, you would be flunking. 

Jesus embodied the triune Godhead in Himself. Yet, at the same time, God the Father remained on the throne in heaven where He is always seen.

You amaze me.

[JoeCanada]

On 6/27/2019 at 9:39 AM, iamlamad said:

Ok. You win this debate. I give up. No arrows. The first seal is the Antichrist  - in 32 AD! Sorry, it makes NO SENSE. It is taking it out of context.

You won't answer my question, I won't answer yours.  No, I am not like the rest of you all. I will answer.

Where did Paul get HIS gospel? Answer: directly from Jesus Christ the head of the Church through revelation knowledge. In other words, JESUS told Him.  It is such a sure thing, we are going to be judged by it.

Here is your answer:

Matthew 28:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.  [Go ye therefore is the first seal: the church sent out to overcome the enemy] Short answer? They got their gospel from JESUS, the head of the church.  That was not so difficult, was it?  What did the early church teach? 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:  (you can read the rest of his sermon yourself) Do you know what the "expert" said about the "bow?" tóxon, tox'-on; from the base of G5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):—bow. This is Strong's: he thinks the bow is a bow like we tie a bow around our neck, or perhaps on the back of a dress. Simple fabric from "toxon?" Well, perhaps you like his answer better then mine! I still think all you want to do is argue.  I hope you can prove me wrong on that. Are you asking questions to learn?

Well, giving up is hardly a way to end a discussion. 

If you are giving up because there is no answer to what you claim is "the arrows are the Gospel going forth with the first horse that has only a bow"........... then I understand.

We can't "add" things to what is written.

If the arrows are the Gospel going forth, as you stated......and there are no arrows, then there is no Gospel. 

If the bow is the Gospel going forth.....then that's a different story. This will need some explanation though.

Yes, I do know where Paul got his Gospel from, though I have no idea why you think it's relevant to the "bow with no arrows".

And no, I don't want to argue. I do like discussing things. And when I hear someone making claims which are not scriptural, then I question it. We've been down this road before. I'll keep questioning.

Respectfully.......

 

 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

No problem. Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

You told me that I had added the word  ONLY to this statement. I didn't need to add anything. The word - hereafter - speaks for itself. It proves everything you are saying is malarkey. It is you that are adding words. You are saying that the word is talking about things that are hereafter, and things before, which is not the truth. You are adding words to scripture or changing the meaning of words to bring forth an imaginary idea of what the word is saying.

For the readers: Lamad had been saying all along that this vision of chapters 4 & 5 were a look back in history.  The Light said that could not be because of this word, hereafter.

Question for "the Light" and for all readers: DID God show John things of the hereafter, in chapters 6 through 22?  You all KNOW the answer is a resounding YES!  In other word, God did EXACTLY what He said here in this word, "hereafter."

This word does not answer whether or not God could add some history to his foretelling. It only tells us God is going to show John some future events.  Some people's imaginations can imagine most anything.  One thing we know John did NOT write: He did not write, " things which must be" [ONLY] "hereafter."

If God had said that, then when would have been bound by His own words and would not have been able to show some history with the future. God did not use this word "only" so He could very well insert some history in with the future he was showing John. 

This is not that difficult a concept, Light. Again you amaze me.  No, my friend, it is not me adding: YOU are adding when you say this verse and the word "hereafter" would prevent God from using some history. I am only showing you that you are adding an only, but it goes right over your head.  Try again: the word hereafter is what God MUST show John: it says nothing about what God cannot show John. In fact, God Did show John things hereafter. I am amazed you don't see that. How long have you been using English?

 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Iamlamad

Have you ever considered that the Bridegroom may have been in the chamber with the Bride at this time, giving out rewards.  Not until He exits does He, the One who is Worthy, take the scroll.

In Christ

Montana Marv

No, the entire context gives to hint of such a thing.  I think the rewards will be given out when the Kingdom is set up. Like how many cities will you be over?