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The Olivet Discourse


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Revelation 3:10

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6 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Revelation 3:10

Were you or are you a minister that teaches a congregation?

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No .... I was not and am not a minister of any church

The Lord then tells about those who claim to be believers who are not [Revelation 3:15-18]

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

I think that one,  of not the biggest hangup of pre-tribbers is their inability to deal with the rapture NOT being an imminent event.   It was one of the things that i personally became aware of.   It becomes a challenge to ones faith to live for the Lord,  knowing that the rapture is in no wise an imminent event.

Blessings

The PuP 

When I was tangled up in the pretrib web, it was difficult for me to find any relevance to the many exhortations by Jesus to be on the alert and be ready.  What did that really mean if His return was imminent?

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"When I was tangled up in the pretrib web, it was difficult for me to find any relevance to the many exhortations by Jesus to be on the alert and be ready.  What did that really mean if His return was imminent?"

 

His return is imminent son .... it has been imminent and still is

When He is ready He will take both the dead and the living home first .... in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye

Then He will immediately bring His wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world

Time is not a factor [2 Peter 3:8-9]

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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"Believing that the rapture is imminent, will foster an attitude of serving God out of fear"

 

What a joke .... tell me why you think this

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7 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

It meant that there was nothing to "watch for".  It meant that Jesus did not tell us what to look for in preparation for his parousia.   

Exactly!  An "imminent" rapture serves to negate the calls for watching and preparedness.  What is someone supposed to do to "watch and be alert" for His return that's any different than what they're supposed to be doing anyway?  According to pretrib, the call to watch and be alert is one long, drawn out meaningless exhortation because of "imminence."  Watch and be alert to what end?

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He could begin His actions at at any moment son so do not be hesitant

The true believerr knows this  

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17 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

When He is ready He will take both the dead and the living home first .... in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye

Then He will immediately bring His wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world

 

Well done....BRAVO Daniel 11:36

You finally have it right.

Yes, indeed Christ will take both the dead and the living home..."IN A FLASH, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE........"

Now if you just finish that quote, ......."AT THE LAST TRUMP"

Then HE WILL IMMEDIATELY BRING HIS WRATH AND JUDGMENT UPON AN UNBELIEVING WORLD .

 

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On 6/15/2018 at 4:40 PM, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

This chapter is not all about the Jews, nor is it given to the Jews, it is given to the followers of Jesus Christ. Here is a quick exposition of Jesus answer through verse 31.

Now let's take a look at that text again. First notice that this is the second longest discourse of Christ recorded in the Gospels. It takes place within a few days prior to His crucifixion. Within that same period Jesus told these same disciples (and us) "I will come again and receive you unto myself". The discourse was addressed initially to four of His disciples who were with Him on the Mount of Olives. But we know it was also intended for us the readers of Matthew's account because Vs 15 says "whoso readeth, let him understand".

The four asked Him a question with three parts. "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end of the world (aeon)?" The first refers to the timing of the destruction of the Temple which took place in 70 AD. The second and third are answered together, because Christ's coming effectively ends the present world (aion = age). They asked Jesus to tell them of the sign that would portend His return, that is His parousia, His second coming. In verse 4 Jesus begins to answer their questions. (Only Luke records Christ's answer to the first one concerning the destruction of the Temple). Lets look at what He says concerning the sign of His parousia.

 

Remember He is answering "what shall be the sign of thy coming". Therefore what He has to say is in the context of that future day.

 

First He warns that there will be deceivers in that day, and false Christs.

 

     Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
     Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 

 

 

He speaks of a time of conquest, war, famine, pestilences, and earthquakes that He calls the beginning of sorrows. He lets us know that these are not the end of the age. It is important to recognize that these conditions closely correspond to what John sees at the opening of the first three seals.

 

 

 

     Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
     Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
     Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

 

He goes on to say that next there would be violent persecution upon followers of Jesus Christ for Christ's name sake.

 

 

 

     Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

 

 

 

Because of this persecution many will be offended, that is fall away. Just like those who were represented by the stony ground which gladly received the Word but were offended when persecution came along, so these also will fall away.

 

 

 

     Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

 

 

 

At that time many false prophets shall contribute to the falling away by their deception

 

 

 

     Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
     Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

 

 

However, He says that those who survive to the end of the persecution and the end of the age, will be saved (delivered Dan 12:1, raptured)

 

 

 

     Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

 

 

Then He says, the gospel shall be preached throughout the world before the end comes. It is interesting that the Great commission which was given to the founding members of the church and continues to be the responsibility of the church today, closes with these words "...lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Jesus said He would be with us in the making of disciples and in the teaching of those disciples, all things whatsoever He taught. He said he would be with us unto the end of the world (aeon). The disciples understood that His coming would inaugurate a new (aeon), the present would end at that point. We continue in Gospel ministry until the second coming of Christ.

 

 

 

      Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

 

 

Jesus now gives further details concerning the persecution He began to speak of in verse 9. We know this by the use of "therefore" in verse 15. He says the unprecedented persecution begins when the rebuilt temple is defiled (abomination of desolation) in the middle of the week by the revelation of the man of sin (the Beast). He says to the inhabitants of Judaea that when they see that happen to flee. Most prophetic statements of the Scripture are centered around Jerusalem in Judaea, so we would expect Christ's warnings to be centered there. However, Rev 13 makes it clear that this persecution will be world-wide.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Jesus further describes the severity and scope of this persecution saying that it is unprecedented.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

He says that it is so violent that it will threaten to extinguish every believer form off the earth. To save some of the elect alive upon the earth He says those days are cut short. We should note that this is the first use of the word elect in the account. We see that it is the elect who are being killed in the unparalleled persecution. Remember from verse 9, those that are being persecuted, are persecuted for the name of Christ. These elect are not unbelieving Israel, they are us, the saints of God, the church.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

 

 

Again Jesus warns of false Christs, and the lying wonders that they will use to deceive those who profess Christ. He says the deception will be so great that if it were possible even the true believer would be deceived. This is the second use of elect in the text. Here Jesus implies that the true elect cannot be deceived by the signs and wonders done by the false prophet. However, unbelieving Israel is still in blindness because the fullness of the Gentiles is not yet come in. Rev 7:9-17 describes an innumerable multitude of primarily gentiles that came out of great tribulation. These are said to be saved just as we are, in the blood of the Lamb. If God is still calling out a people for His name from among the Gentiles during the great tribulation than Israel still remains forensically blinded (Rom 11:25). Therefore, the elect, who cannot be deceived, must be the Church.

 

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The age-old adage is, “to be forewarned is to be forearmed”. With these warnings Christ has armed us against deception, specifically that deception related to His arrival at His parousia. He says that His coming (parousia) will be unmistakable, as unmistakable as the smell of the dead to carrion eating birds.

 

Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

 

 

Jesus then tells us what event signals that the unprecedented persecution is over. It is an identifiable cosmic sign, the very sign that Joel and other prophets said would precede the day of the Lord. Following the cosmic sign the whole world will see the wonder of Christ in heaven as He comes with His holy angels. They will mourn in fear, having been caught unawares, like a thief in the night catches the unsuspecting home dweller. He will then send His angels to gather His elect, the persecuted, to Him in the clouds.

 

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

Hallelujah

I see three questions also, but my understanding is far different than yours to say the least..........

Matthew 24 Revealed: Understanding The Three Timelines: Matthew 24:1-6 is about the Destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The first question was about what Jesus had just said, the Temple being DESTROYED (When shall these things be?) The second question was what will be the Sign of your Coming. These are dealt with in order. Also Remember that false prophets and/or false chirsts are mentioned three times, in verses 5, 11 and 24 and they are THREE SEPARATE EVENTS.

If Jesus is going to give them a sign/understanding of these events, wouldn't he walk them through the whole 2000 year period? I think he would, and clearly does. Lets go through a few of the verses to see why I believe as I do. And we know its a 2000 year period, its 2017 SMILE. Well Almost 2000 years.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am christ; and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Jesus here is warning the Disciples not to be deceived, it is well known that the Rabbis/Pharisees in order to put down the "Jesus movement" and because they thought the Roman occupation was the END TIMES/Fourth Beast and thus they were expecting the "Little Horn" and thus the Messiah to come forth and "Save them". So they put forth various Messiahs just before the Temple and Jerusalem's destruction, which was caused by their rebellion against Rome. Jesus is telling his Disciples not to fall for the lies, many will come in my name, saying I am the Messiah, but it will not be me Returning !! It is not yet the proper time he tells them, do not fall for the lies for the End is not yet. The end will be by and by.

He was basically warning his Disciples not to come back to Jerusalem when they heard of these things, thinking that it was Jesus come again, like in Zechariah chapter 14, because if they heard the rumors and came back to Jerusalem, no doubt they would be in the line of fire and probably killed, so his warning was to STAY AWAY. Don't buy the false stories of Christ is in Jerusalem is what Jesus here is informing his Disciples. He is informing them that they will hear of Wars and Rumors of wars, no doubt Jesus knew many of the Disciples would venture afar taking the Gospel unto all the world, thus they would not see this destruction of the Temple, some would, but many would just hear of the destruction to come. Jesus clearly tells them, THIS IS NOT THE END !! Meaning that even though the Pharisees and Rabbis were looking for the Messiah to save them, (from Rome/Fourth Beast) this was not the time of Jesus' Second Coming, thus he says, the END IS NOT YET !! ( Verses 1-6 is from Jesus until the 70 AD Event )

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then Jesus seems to shift into a futuristic 2000 year period of time from 70 AD to the coming Rapture, or hes speaking of the FULL 2000 year Church Age, which is mostly after the 70 AD Event. He speaks about Nations against Nations, Kingdoms against Kingdoms, famines, pestilences and earthquakes, and he says these are the Beginnings of Sorrows !! The Greek word used for sorrows implies BIRTH PANGS, this is Jesus telling the Disciples that all of these things must happen first, and that will be the sign (BIRTH PANG) that the end is near. The next few verses are also covering the full 2000 year period, speaking at times about the Disciples, and at other times about the whole 2000 year period, until the Rapture.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

I think this is mainly Jesus telling his Disciples about their coming fate. Many people would betray them, and most all of the Disciples would become Martyrs, save John and a couple of others. They don't kill you if they don't hate you right? And no doubt, many betrayed them, like Judas betrayed Jesus.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I think this is speaking of the overall 2000 some odd year Church Age, until the Rapture. Jesus throws this in to let everyone know, there will be many false prophets (Jonestown, and cults like it have risen over the 2000 year period since Jesus' death) and because of sin or the acceptance thereof, (at the end times or Birth Pangs) the love of Many shall wax Cold......Abortion, Murder, Homosexuality being pushed as normal etc. etc. Then Jesus says, BUT..... out of all of these things I have described unto you all, (Matthew 24:7-13) he that endures all things that might come upon him, he that KEEPS THE FAITH until the End (of his life) the same shall be SAVED. In other words if we turn from God/Jesus and return unto the world, we will be cast out of Jesus' mouth as Lukewarm. We must overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb, we can not turn back to living a sinful life, we must endure all of our temptations. It doesn't mean we will not Sin..........It just means we can not turn back unto a sinful lifestyle. WE MUST ENDURE IN CHRIST until the end. We are to run the Marathon, Amen

This above is Jesus answering their questions, "When shall these things be"? He walks them through the full 2000 year period between when he was alive, until he calls the Church home at the Rapture. The destruction of the Temple is spoken of but Jesus says, the end is not yet !! Then Jesus finishes off the 2000 year panoramic view. The Rapture scriptures of Matthew 24:36-51 should actually be next, verses 36-51 should come after verse 14. But Mathew did not have a clue about the Rapture, so he (correctly) placed it with the Second Coming verses 29-31, at least in his thinking it was correct. Jesus only gave the Rapture understanding to Paul, Disciple unto the Gentiles. He told it to the Jews who asked, but did not explain it at all, but he did answer their questions as pertaining to his comings. The Rapture will TAKE ONE and LEAVE ONE, the Second Coming will destroy the Wicked and rescue the Jews.

On to the 70th Week of Daniel now. The 3 1/2 years of Peace/Security followed by the 3 1/2 years of Gods Wrath. The Rapture happens after verse 14. In my honest opinion Matthew 24:36-51, belongs right here, but of course Matthew was not given the Rapture understanding/theorem. 

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, {whoso readeth, let him understand} 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Verse 14 kind of belongs with verses 7-13, but it can also go on this side of the 2000 year divide. It straddles the gap so to speak. The Gospel must be preached unto all the World, then the END WILL COME !! This is very clear, once the Church has preached the Gospel unto all the world for a witness to Jesus' saving Grace, then and only then can the End Times come upon us. Jesus then goes on to tell us/disciples about this End Time Period. He warns the Jewish peoples that when they see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, they should Flee Jerusalem. THIS IS AN END TIME EVENT.........There is no doubt about that at all. Now Jesus must answer the next question(s), what will be the Sign of thy coming, and what will be the end (of the age) of time [the Age of sin].

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, (THE Anti-Christ and False Prophet here) and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus is telling his Disciples, and thus warning the Jewish peoples of the coming Tribulation Period what to look for. He is warning them not to fall for THE Anti-Christ and False Prophets tricks when they try to entice Israel to come out of their safe space, where God says in Revelation 12 that he will protect them for 1260 days, from the Anti-Christ/Dragon (Satan). Israel have accepted Jesus as their Messiah by this time. (Malachi 4:5-6) So of course the Anti-Christ and False Prophet wants to deceive them into thinking Jesus has RETURNED (because they want to kill them, of course) and is in the Desert or Secret Chambers !! But Jesus says do not fall for their lies, for I will not be in the Desert or in a Secret Chambers.... for I will be coming from the Eastern Skies for all to see. Amen.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn (Vials 6 & 7), and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So, Jesus tells the Jewish peoples the Signs of his Coming and when the end shall be. This is the End of the Age, no doubt. IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days (Troubles/Jacobs Trouble), these signs will be in the sky and then you will see me coming in the clouds from the East, and all the tribes and nations will see the Glory of my Coming. And the Angels will gather THE ELECT from the Four Corners of Heaven, [where the Church has been for SEVEN YEARS, Marrying the Lamb] and we will Return on White Horses (as Conquerors) with Jesus Christ just as Rev. 19 says. Amen.

Now Jesus has covered the largest base of the Jewish peoples because 85-95 percent of them will not receive the Lord Jesus Christ before the Rapture that Paul has spoken about in many places, including 1 Corinthians 15,  now Jesus must cover the few Messianic Jews plight. What will happen to them at the End Times? Well they will be Raptured, along with all the dead in Christ (and some of the Dead in Christ are Jews also of Course), and those of us who are alive when Jesus calls us home to Heaven, so we can Marry the Lamb (Rev. 19) and then return with him to destroy the Anti-Christ and his Minions.

So Matthew 36-51 tells about the coming Rapture of the Church, but I will only post verses 38-42, for it emphasizes everything that needs to be said, Jesus tells the Messianic Jews about their destiny :

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

This of course happens right before the Tribulation, or Jacobs Troubles. If this actually happened during the Tribulation period would they be Drinking/Marrying and having a grand ole time? No, of course not, that makes no sense, the Jewish nation will be in hiding in the Wilderness, (Rev. 12) and the wicked men of earth will be dodging the plagues of Gods Wrath, there will be no one who will be having fun just before Jesus' SECOND COMING, that I can assure you !! So this is the Rapture here, we are expectant, but Surprised when Jesus Returns. The World during Gods Wrath will not be surprised, the 6th Seal is the Gathering of nations unto Meggido for Armageddon, so does anyone really think that Jesus showing up on The Mt. of Olives at Vial number 7 is going to be a surprise? NO.....The Anti-Christ has exactly 42 Months to rule. The Rapture is a surprise, the Day of the Lord comes upon the ones living in the Dark (of the World/Satan), not those of us living in the Light (Jesus).

Jesus then illustrates what can only be the Rapture, it can not be the Second Coming. He says Two will be in the field and One will be taken and the other shall be left [Behind]. The same thing is spoken about with the women grinding at the mill, One will be taken and One left.

Then Jesus says WATCH, for you know not what hour when your Lord comes. Just like the Bride knew not what hour the Bridegroom was to come !! We know when Jesus' Second Coming will be. Exactly 42 Months after the Anti-Christ commits the Abomination of Desolation, AND.......everyone on earth will all see Jesus (with the Church/Bride at his side) splitting the Eastern skies, no one will be left behind, believe me, the Wicked will be DESTROYED, not left behind. Amen.

Matthew 24:1-6 is the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.

Matthew 24:7-14 is the 2000 year period from 70 AD to the Rapture.

Matthew 24:36-51 is the Rapture/Matthew thought it should be with the Second Coming, only Paul was given this Rapture Understanding !!

Matthew 24:15-28 is the Abomination of Desolation/Time of Troubles/False Prophet and Anti-Christs time.

Matthew 24:29-31 is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The Church will come back from Heaven with Jesus Christ on White Horses (Rev. 19) Amen, Glory to God.

Matthew 24:32-35 is the Parable of the "FIG TREE". It basically is saying when the Fig Tree is ripe you know that Summer is NIGH and Likewise, when you SEE ALL OF THESE SIGNS, My Coming will be Near.

The Sign of Jesus Second Coming will.......NOT be when you see the Temples/Jerusalem's Destruction, NOT when you see the Kingdoms vs. Kingdoms or pestilences, it will NOT be when the Gospel is Preached unto all the World, it will NOT be when the Abomination of Desolation happens, it will NOT be when you see the TROUBLES OF JACOB, it will NOT be when you see the false christ and false prophet, it will NOT be when you see the Sun turn dark, the moon turn red or the stars falling from the skies.

But the Second Coming will only happen when you see ALL OF THESE SIGNS COME TO PASS !! 

Basically this is a multi faceted prophecy, that takes deep thinking and revelation from God to understand via much prayer. 

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