Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 17, 2018 On 6/15/2018 at 4:04 AM, George said: it's amazing to me how fast the term -- "false teacher" and "heretic" are used to slander the brethren on "non-essentials" of the faith. When these terms are used they should be only used on salvational issues. If you read our Statement of Faith -- or the Apostles Creed -- these are what I would term "essentials" of the faith. These essentials are the core values of every born-again believer and shouldn't be issues of debate. I am glad you started this thread George to speak to this issue, and how you illustrated the point with examples of faithful men, who disagree and even change their minds in response to what they are convinced are better understandings that what they previously believed. Some people are so self-assured (prideful) that they seem unable or unwilling to open their eyes, ears, and heart such that if they are in error, they could be open to correction, growth, or learning. Others, are certain that what they believe, is directly from the Spirit of God, yet somehow, it is not possible, that the other person is also able to be taught by the Spirit. Some people come to conclusions after considerable and serious study. Some study to prove their own conclusions correct, and just brush away passages that would seem to contradict their positions, as if they were not there. Others, listen to teachers who can say things that sound so reasonable, yet are not balanced scripturally. This is to be expected ( 2 Tim 4:3 ). These problems and issues, are not limited to any one position of controversy, nor even to just prophecy. However, it does impact people, damaging relationships, even appearing to make enemies of those we Christians are to love greatly - our brothers and sisters in Christ. Worse, it even gives evidence to the world, that we are not even Christian ( John 13:35 ), and we should not be doing this - we damage each other, we damage the church, we even hurt Jesus' reputation by this behavior. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for the thread, and add that I think it is a shame, that this even needs to be said. It would certainly be helpful, if people could just understand the difference between peripheral theology, and doctrines that damn. We should not shy away from passionately explaining our views to build one another up, and we should be just as open to being corrected, as we hope others are. Personal pride in what we believe, can be a recipe for continued ignorance, so it is good to check ourselves now and then. When we engage in debate on these forums, we should be slow to speak, quick to listen, and read our own post before hitting that Submit Reply button. Ask ourselves - "Is what I just wrote, building the other person up, or tearing them down" and "For the others who come along and read this later, will they see a kind, well thought out response that they can learn from, or will they be repelled by what they see and avoid the discussion because of the animosity?" I hope people will think and pray about these things! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 17, 2018 The pre-tribulation rapture was first taught by Paul .... a Mystery he said .... and the truth What others say different from Paul are obviously wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said: The pre-tribulation rapture was first taught by Paul .... a Mystery he said .... and the truth What others say different from Paul are obviously wrong Start saying things like that, and it won't be long before this degrades into another one of "those threads". I'd be happy to engage you on this notion (somewhere else) because I have never seen, nor has anyone posted here at Worthy, any verse about the Rapture being pre-trib, but I agree that it is Paul really, that brings the rapture into focus, and some clarity. When he says it is a mystery, what he is saying is "this is something that has not be previously revealed", so you are quite right there. So let's keep this thread about what it is about, the bickering that these topic seem to have along with them, and what we can do to end or reduce that! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,464 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,762 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,432 Days Won: 128 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Author Steward Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Sojourner414 said: George, I relayed to you the simple message I was given in prayer when you asked me directly about it: that Worthy's Lampstand is to be removed. In many of my posts on this board for the past two months, I have stated that clearly, and why it is to be removed. I am no prophet and never claimed to be. That said, I was told simply what to say, without embellishment or aggrandizement on my part, and was only undertaken after many sleepless nights spent in prayer and Scripture. It is not about me, but about this place and its' departure from what the Lord originally intended it for, despite the claims to the contrary from you and others. Do as you will concerning me; I already know the ridicule I will receive here as well as the consequences for me speaking as I have. But I was asked to give you the message, and my task is complete. -Sojo414. As I said before, if its the Lord's ministry -- and has ALWAYS been His ministry, then how in the world will it be removed? You choose to see what you choose to see and have not even a tiny inkling of what's happening behind the scenes. As I said to you in private, time will tell -- as far as the ministry is concerned -- we'll continue to press on, press through, and fight for the souls of the lost! As far as ridicule is concerned? Have I ever once tried to silence you -- or ridicule you? I've reached out as a brother to you and I'm only addressing you in public since you chose to make this a public matter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,036 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,380 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Because of rampant sin in the last of days God tells us the love of many will grow cold Matt 24:7-12 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. KJV So if we are to overcome this it must be with purposed intent... always lead never drive! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryan Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 17, 2018 To me, Omega's comment summarizes it well. "When we engage in debate on these forums, we should be slow to speak, quick to listen, and read our own post before hitting that Submit Reply button. Ask ourselves - "Is what I just wrote, building the other person up, or tearing them down" and "For the others who come along and read this later, will they see a kind, well thought out response that they can learn from, or will they be repelled by what they see and avoid the discussion because of the animosity?" The first sentence in this reply seems to imply that if anyone is thinking of a Christian belief or interpreting scripture differently, there's no point in addressing it. Surely I'm reading this out of context. "You cannot "build up" anyone when that which is twisted and distorted as well as utter contradiction of the Scriptures is allowed, no matter how hard one tries (I will speak on the Pre-Trib Rapture at another point). The amount of "teaching" allowed on Worthy that departs the direct words of Scripture in salvation and non-salvation issues alike, for the "sake of reaching out to those who are mistaken" is truly staggering." Regardless of how this reply is interpreted, a pattern of discussion in the forums where the original poster's character is attacked seems common. "Building up" a person in a reply involves to me addressing only the question or topic being discussed. Exploring the context around scripture, the meanings of the original language involved, and how they're commonly interpreted can all be beneficial and not attack anyone. In contrast, replies accusing/questioning whether the poster is really a Christian, telling them they are simply wrong or unable to read scripture, or resorting to crude, personal attacks are obviously not helpful and hurt the image of anyone reviewing the forums. People naturally defend their beliefs and can be quick to attack in response to anything that seems to question their beliefs or ask if they might be wrong about something. Being slow to speak, quick to listen, and reviewing your own response to see if it's beneficial before submitting is a great first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 17, 2018 "So let's keep this thread about what it is about, the bickering that these topic seem to have along with them, and what we can do to end or reduce that!" Different views will always bring argumentations with regard for the Lord's word .... this is a fact Some do know the truth about things like the pre-tribulation rapture, but many do not .... in fact most do not So it is because of this disparate thinking that there will be conflict .... nothing new And these things will only increase with time Some know scriptural fact, but most do not and this divergence will only increase as mankind moves closer to the end of the Lord's actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,248 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 671 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Different views will always bring argumentations with regard for the Lord's word .... this is a fact Some do know the truth about things like the pre-tribulation rapture, but many do not .... in fact most do not So it is because of this disparate thinking that there will be conflict .... nothing new And these things will only increase with time Some know scriptural fact, but most do not and this divergence will only increase as mankind moves closer to the end of the Lord's actions I have over the years had many discussions with brothers and sisters about different views of scripture, but they have never turned into arguments . If one can present their view using scripture, and not their opinion, then that becomes a discussion that is WORTHY. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChan82 Posted June 18, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Oh, dear. After a well researched and presented case involving multiple pages and examples of folks on different sides of the eschatological scale you are presented with applause and boos. You are given ultimatums and perfunctory assertions that one side is straight from scripture to the exclusion of any other position. You cannot make everybody happy. Despite the hot environment on these topics, I am able to glean insight into the views of some of the people posting. I gather that some of you know each other personally, but you are all anonymous to me so I can take any answer in stride. I hope to figure out as many positions as I can. This is one of the few sites left that even tolerate debate on eschatology. It would be nice to see someone finish making their position clear before they are blasted to silence or answered by one line statement with no explanation. Sure you are sick of repeating your position to obstinate posters. So what? It's not hard to be polite and gracious. James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted September 16, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted September 16, 2018 On 6/15/2018 at 6:14 AM, George said: When Darby brought in the ideas of the "pre-tribulation" rapture - But Darby did not "bring in" the ideas of a pre-trib. There were others that affirmed that position long before that. Writings have been found since the early days of the Reformation period where the pre-trib, dispensational view as brought out. It can be argued that there were allusions to a pre-trib, dispensational view back to the 2nd and 3rd Century. Darby did make it more commonplace, but hardly the originator. People give Darby way too much credit. But Goebbels had one thing right. If one tells a falsehood long enough it eventually will be viewed as truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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