Broken cisterns

[Heleadethme]

Amen brother....I do believe the Lord still has some things up His long sleeve (not too short to save)...... and I believe your testimony and rejoice in it.

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

This sort of dovetails in well with my ‘to be continued’ post. I hope you do not mind if share my thoughts.

Amen.......I believe it all ties into the difference between the fountain of living water and the broken cisterns of flesh and self effort, so we're not really off topic on these things.

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

One night now almost twelve years ago, I cried out to God and told Him that I could not walk the walk He asked o me. It was too high, too hard....impossible. And it was at that moment that God appeared to me in a divine visitation and He spoke..... and yes, audibly. And what did He say? 

“For this, my son, I am well pleased with you.”

Seems like He was pleased because of arriving at a place of stark honesty....the end of self.  The Lord esteems and answers honesty and guile-lessness.   This was your moment of real repentance, then, I believe.  Godly sorrow having led up to it.  Praise the Lord.

Psa 51:17

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psa 34:18

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Isa 57:15

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Psa 32:2

Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Jhn 1:47

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

” In all your trying, did you ever do what I instructed you to do through my servant Paul?”

And when He said those words, He immediately took away the blinders from my spiritual eyes. I saw the answer I had sought and never before seen. And it was found in Romans chapter 6.

Here, Paul tells us that there are two truths we must know. 

1) We must know that when Christ died, so did we.... the old us. 

2) We must know that when Chris rose from the dead to newness of life, so did we.

 

This really shows to me how it is a work of God on our hearts, not of our own, and why we will lay all our crowns at His feet.

 

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

You asked what our part was in all this. The answer is that our part is to try as hard s we can to walk pleasing to God..... and fail. And when we finally come to Him broken of all self confidence, and with no strength, we are finally prepared to do the one thing He ask of us. He asks us to only believe. 

Amen, thank you for that answer brother.  So we are to keep following Him, obeying Him as far as we are able and seeking His righteousness, being honest about our shortcoming and failures.....waiting upon Him in penitence and brokenness regarding any area of lack, and He WILL lead us to where we need to be.  There is to be a healthy kind of tension between fear of the Lord and trusting in His grace with this, I believe......we need to be holding onto both those things at once, for our good.  Fear of the Lord can help us to sorrow and become desperate enough, and knowledge of His grace helps us to come to Him in stark honesty, rather than hiding from Him.  (Not sure I'm saying it very well, but that's the best I can put that.)

And I would like to ask, do we keep going from glory to glory....or do you see this as receiving the end of our faith in this life....or is it how Paul said, considering not that he had already attained but to keep pressing on until our race is finished in this life?

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

Our human nature does not like to admit weakness. We want to help God, but our old nature cannot please Him. As God tells us, nothing profits but a new man.

Here is where the Lord indicts our self righteousness and religiosity as being filthy rags.....yikes....but Lord, I try so hard!  lol.  And this is not to discourage trying really....but we just need to come to the place of realizing when our trying really stems from our pride and self interest,  if we allow the light in deep enough to see it.  We have to crucify the pride that hates the light, and come into the light knowing it will save us from ourselves.  Amen.  

Thanks Gideon, this is a helpful discussion for me and hope for others too.

[Gideon]

It is critically important that we understand this about walking in our new nature. If Christ is ours, we possess them, right here, right now. But that does not mean we enjoy them or the benefits that they offer us. There is one thing that Christ asks of us on out TO DO list, just one. We are asked to believe that we truly are new natures people and that the old us is actually dead. 

We have all tried to die to self and found out that we cannot crucify self, for it refuses to die. If we squeeze it in one area, it pops up in another. For instance, if I had been successful in conquering sexual lust by my own efforts, spiritual pride would simply have replaced it. 

But when we finally see that self MUST die, and we cannot do it, no matter how hard we try, what a glorious day it is to finally see that all God asks of us is to believe that what we cannot ever doom God has already done. 

Satan will try to dissuade us and discourage us by pointing out that we can never believe hard enough or strong enough to arrive at the rest that remains for the people of God. But we must realize, that first, it is not our faith at all, but each one of us have been given a measure of faith... HIS faith!  And He does not tell us that when we believe hard enough, it will come to pass, for that would still make it a work we have to do. No, the amazing truth of the gospel of grace is that He first makes our death true. We deodorant when Christ died. Period. All He asks us to do is, with whatever measure of faith we do possess, is to exercise it and reckon it to be true for us, right now, today. 

If we are hoping for it in the future, it will be like a tempting mirage, and no matter how close we get to it, it will always remain in the future. But just as hope is for future events, faith must always be NOW faith. We are simply asked to step out of the boat of self effort and believe that because we are already dead, and because we are already made new, we can walk victoriously with Him. 

The hard part of this amazing truth is coming to the point of desperate preparation, where our sins, big or small, have become exceedingly sinful to us, and totally undefeatable to us in our own efforts. There is no getting around having to hate our life.... our fallen nature. It can be frustrating and painful.

But when we weather the storm, and refuse to give in to satan’s temptations to give up on ever walking in victory, our God will solidify the water we step out on. It is not up to us to walk as “good Christians”. That is His part of the deal. He has promised to cause us to obey.... to will AND to do of His good pleasure. Our part is to simply do two things, admit that we need it and believe that our God cannot lie and will indeed give it to us. 

Blessings,

Gideon

[Gideon]

36 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen brother....I do believe the Lord still has some things up His long sleeve (not too short to save)...... and I believe your testimony and rejoice in it.

Amen.......I believe it all ties into the difference between the fountain of living water and the broken cisterns of flesh and self effort, so we're not really off topic on these things.

Seems like He was pleased because of arriving at a place of stark honesty....the end of self.  The Lord esteems and answers honesty and guile-lessness.   This was your moment of real repentance, then, I believe.  Godly sorrow having led up to it.  Praise the Lord.

Psa 51:17

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psa 34:18

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Isa 57:15

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Psa 32:2

Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Jhn 1:47

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

This really shows to me how it is a work of God on our hearts, not of our own, and why we will lay all our crowns at His feet.

 

Amen, thank you for that answer brother.  So we are to keep following Him, obeying Him as far as we are able and seeking His righteousness, being honest about our shortcoming and failures.....waiting upon Him in penitence and brokenness regarding any area of lack, and He WILL lead us to where we need to be.  There is to be a healthy kind of tension between fear of the Lord and trusting in His grace with this, I believe......we need to be holding onto both those things at once, for our good.  Fear of the Lord can help us to sorrow and become desperate enough, and knowledge of His grace helps us to come to Him in stark honesty, rather than hiding from Him.  (Not sure I'm saying it very well, but that's the best I can put that.)

And I would like to ask, do we keep going from glory to glory....or do you see this as receiving the end of our faith in this life....or is it how Paul said, considering not that he had already attained but to keep pressing on until our race is finished in this life?

Here is where the Lord indicts our self righteousness and religiosity as being filthy rags.....yikes....but Lord, I try so hard!  lol.  And this is not to discourage trying really....but we just need to come to the place of realizing when our trying really stems from our pride and self interest,  if we allow the light in deep enough to see it.  We have to crucify the pride that hates the light, and come into the light knowing it will save us from ourselves.  Amen.  

Thanks Gideon, this is a helpful discussion for me and hope for others too.

What an encouraging response. On your question about going from glory to glory, God let me see something long ago. When we first pick up our shields of faith and put on the armor of a new nature, our faith may be pure faith, but it is small. We are like toddlers learning to walk. Is slipping backwards possible? Absolutely! 

Think of the Israelites after 40 years finally giving up their unbelief that caused them to wander in circles in the wilderness. God told them that every step they took would be theirs. Amen? They immediately faced mighty Jericho and saw God give them a miraculous victory. Next up? Ai. Little Ai. And Joshua reasoned that it they took down the walls of Jericho, certainly Ai would be no problem. And they got their behinds handed to them. They had faith, but it was small faith. It needs to become BIG faith. Never are WE strong. He is strong IN us. 

Likewise with us. When we finally first believe, it is a wonderful thing. A weight is lifted off our backs. Joy can fill our hearts. But what we need to understand is that we have in no way arrived. We have simply taken our first steps. We all must fight our good fight of faith, so that our faith can grow.

Look, Satan does not care if we sin. He knows sin can be forgiven. But when a man or woman discovers the truth our enemy has kept from the church for 1900 years, now Satan gets worried, for he has a true adversary. And a joy filled, victorious adversary is like witnessing dynamite. So Satan does all he can to defeat or at least discourage us. Trust me, it is unavoidable. 

Shall we fear? Ha! Why? God simply uses Satan like resistance training to strengthen our faith, grow it. Yes, temporary defeats are possible, But IF we slip into sin, we do not quit, saying it is all not true. No, we get up. We repent. But just as importantly, we hold up our shields of faith again that we are dead to sin and alive unto God. We yield ourselves again to God as He has told us to .... as those who are alive unto God! 

Is there a place we grow into that becomes unshakeable? According to the Word, absolutely! He says our goal is to become established in the faith. As long as our shield of faith are up, we can be totally secure in our salvation. Period.  

Lest we forget, He is the potter here, we are the clay. He that has begun a good work in us WILL perform it unto that day. Here, I believe OSAS is true, for a man walking in His new nature believes his God, and his God cannot fail. But a word of warning here. There is no safety in walking in our old nature. Here Satan finds a willing accomplice at times, a traitor, a man incapable of walking in the victory He has bought for each one of us. It all starts with our reckoning ourselves.... the old natures US, as dead, out of the picture, gone forever. Why? Because it is  true! Glory!

blessings,

Gids

Edited June 18, 2018 by Gideon

[Not me]

@Heleadethme

You wrote;

“Now, I would like to ask, where it was said...."By realizing the truth of our 'death in Christ'".  How are we to understand the role of repentance in this process..”

Repentance “is” this process.

For true repentance is turning from “self” to God. For “self” is all the evil that we possess. Self or the self life being in control of our lifes is why Christ came and died. To free us from “us”. For we are the sin factory that must be done away with if we are to walk in righteousness. For we  are our worst enemy. It is us that causes us all our grief and troubles. It is all that was “born in Adam” that must be given up to death. As Gideon wrote,  it is knowing and understanding and believing from the heart the truth “that when Christ died we died”. Once this is seen inwardly, the “reckoning ourselfs dead onto sin but alive unto God” becomes the most blessed command ever given. For we see that a “death to self or us” is the one and only way to be freed from the “old man and his deeds.” 

Blessing to you my brother in Christ, for I see a honest and good heart in your writings. Keep pressing into Christ and He will show you all you need or want to know. For as you know the only thing that will last, is how much Christ has been formed in you. 

May I just toss out one question to chew on. 

Why is the life of self so evil? 

It is because the “life of self” is that which elevates itself above that which is right. (i. e. righteousness) 

Just something to chew on. 

@Gideon

I so much love reading your testimony. It gives me so much hope that I to can get my “well done”, and be pleasing to Jesus. God is so good and kind and just waits to bless all those that are willing to walk in righteousness. 

Much love and prayers to my brothers in Christ. May God grant you an increase of Himself in both of you. 

In Christ, Not me 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Not me

[lastofall]

"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."  (Matthew 21:44)

[Heleadethme]

20 hours ago, Gideon said:

It is critically important that we understand this about walking in our new nature. If Christ is ours, we possess them, right here, right now. But that does not mean we enjoy them or the benefits that they offer us. There is one thing that Christ asks of us on out TO DO list, just one. We are asked to believe that we truly are new natures people and that the old us is actually dead. 

We have all tried to die to self and found out that we cannot crucify self, for it refuses to die. If we squeeze it in one area, it pops up in another. For instance, if I had been successful in conquering sexual lust by my own efforts, spiritual pride would simply have replaced it. 

But when we finally see that self MUST die, and we cannot do it, no matter how hard we try, what a glorious day it is to finally see that all God asks of us is to believe that what we cannot ever doom God has already done. 

Satan will try to dissuade us and discourage us by pointing out that we can never believe hard enough or strong enough to arrive at the rest that remains for the people of God. But we must realize, that first, it is not our faith at all, but each one of us have been given a measure of faith... HIS faith!  And He does not tell us that when we believe hard enough, it will come to pass, for that would still make it a work we have to do. No, the amazing truth of the gospel of grace is that He first makes our death true. We deodorant when Christ died. Period. All He asks us to do is, with whatever measure of faith we do possess, is to exercise it and reckon it to be true for us, right now, today. 

If we are hoping for it in the future, it will be like a tempting mirage, and no matter how close we get to it, it will always remain in the future. But just as hope is for future events, faith must always be NOW faith. We are simply asked to step out of the boat of self effort and believe that because we are already dead, and because we are already made new, we can walk victoriously with Him. 

The hard part of this amazing truth is coming to the point of desperate preparation, where our sins, big or small, have become exceedingly sinful to us, and totally undefeatable to us in our own efforts. There is no getting around having to hate our life.... our fallen nature. It can be frustrating and painful.

But when we weather the storm, and refuse to give in to satan’s temptations to give up on ever walking in victory, our God will solidify the water we step out on. It is not up to us to walk as “good Christians”. That is His part of the deal. He has promised to cause us to obey.... to will AND to do of His good pleasure. Our part is to simply do two things, admit that we need it and believe that our God cannot lie and will indeed give it to us. 

Blessings,

Gideon

Amen....that seems to be the nature of our incorrigible self....like trying to hold bubbles underwater, it's impossible, they're going to bubble up somewhere, somehow....if not one way then another.  "Hating our life"........that agrees with judging ourselves so that we will not be judged with the world.  Painful it is, and part of why we don't love our life in this world, this is not a comfortable journey.  There has to be a tearing down of our old self-concepts until there's nothing left of who we thought we were.  Who we thought we were was only a false kind of self-concept we built in order to function in the world/Egypt....but now we need a whole new self-concept (so to speak) that can function in the kingdom of God, a spiritual kingdom.  Or actually having no concept of self at all, would be a better way of saying it, heh.  Like Moses after 40 years in the desert of tearing down his old man.  As you have been pointing out, No longer I who lives at all....but Christ who lives in me.

[Heleadethme]

20 hours ago, Gideon said:

What an encouraging response. On your question about going from glory to glory, God let me see something long ago. When we first pick up our shields of faith and put on the armor of a new nature, our faith may be pure faith, but it is small. We are like toddlers learning to walk. Is slipping backwards possible? Absolutely! 

Think of the Israelites after 40 years finally giving up their unbelief that caused them to wander in circles in the wilderness. God told them that every step they took would be theirs. Amen? They immediately faced mighty Jericho and saw God give them a miraculous victory. Next up? Ai. Little Ai. And Joshua reasoned that it they took down the walls of Jericho, certainly Ai would be no problem. And they got their behinds handed to them. They had faith, but it was small faith. It needs to become BIG faith. Never are WE strong. He is strong IN us. 

Likewise with us. When we finally first believe, it is a wonderful thing. A weight is lifted off our backs. Joy can fill our hearts. But what we need to understand is that we have in no way arrived. We have simply taken our first steps. We all must fight our good fight of faith, so that our faith can grow.

Look, Satan does not care if we sin. He knows sin can be forgiven. But when a man or woman discovers the truth our enemy has kept from the church for 1900 years, now Satan gets worried, for he has a true adversary. And a joy filled, victorious adversary is like witnessing dynamite. So Satan does all he can to defeat or at least discourage us. Trust me, it is unavoidable. 

Shall we fear? Ha! Why? God simply uses Satan like resistance training to strengthen our faith, grow it. Yes, temporary defeats are possible, But IF we slip into sin, we do not quit, saying it is all not true. No, we get up. We repent. But just as importantly, we hold up our shields of faith again that we are dead to sin and alive unto God. We yield ourselves again to God as He has told us to .... as those who are alive unto God! 

Is there a place we grow into that becomes unshakeable? According to the Word, absolutely! He says our goal is to become established in the faith. As long as our shield of faith are up, we can be totally secure in our salvation. Period.  

Lest we forget, He is the potter here, we are the clay. He that has begun a good work in us WILL perform it unto that day. Here, I believe OSAS is true, for a man walking in His new nature believes his God, and his God cannot fail. But a word of warning here. There is no safety in walking in our old nature. Here Satan finds a willing accomplice at times, a traitor, a man incapable of walking in the victory He has bought for each one of us. It all starts with our reckoning ourselves.... the old natures US, as dead, out of the picture, gone forever. Why? Because it is  true! Glory!

blessings,

Gids

(Just to let you know I'm a sister by the way.)  You know brother, I have long wondered why the Israelites had to cross two bodies of water....as though they had to be born again twice, so to speak.  Jesus speaking to Nicodemus and saying ye must be born again....I believe He was speaking in spirit saying two things at once....saying to unbelievers that they must be born again and also saying to those who are already born again, that they must be born yet again.   After crossing the Red Sea, and being led by the Lord on a pilgrimage through the wilderness, there is yet the Jordan to get across in order to enter into and receive our inheritance, the kingdom of God.  Those who camp out in their 'first' born again experience and rest on their laurels are going to miss out on the "finishing" of their faith.  That's why it takes faith to enter the Promised Land of rest.....and why there still remains for the people of God (speaking to those who already know the Lord, and are born again the 'first' time, so to speak) a sabbath rest to enter.  (I love the old testament, it doesn't lie or lead us astray, but is a wealth of word pictures for little children to learn spiritual truth from....it fully agrees with the new.   )  When we first come to faith in Christ that represents our leaving the world (Egypt), being set apart for God, to follow Jesus.......then crossing the Jordan represents what we are entering into.  Just reciting my lessons here.

[Heleadethme]

9 hours ago, Not me said:

@Heleadethme

You wrote;

“Now, I would like to ask, where it was said...."By realizing the truth of our 'death in Christ'".  How are we to understand the role of repentance in this process..”

Repentance “is” this process.

For true repentance is turning from “self” to God. For “self” is all the evil that we possess. Self or the self life being in control of our lifes is why Christ came and died. To free us from “us”. For we are the sin factory that must be done away with if we are to walk in righteousness. For we  are our worst enemy. It is us that causes us all our grief and troubles. It is all that was “born in Adam” that must be given up to death. As Gideon wrote,  it is knowing and understanding and believing from the heart the truth “that when Christ died we died”. Once this is seen inwardly, the “reckoning ourselfs dead onto sin but alive unto God” becomes the most blessed command ever given. For we see that a “death to self or us” is the one and only way to be freed from the “old man and his deeds.” 

Blessing to you my brother in Christ, for I see a honest and good heart in your writings. Keep pressing into Christ and He will show you all you need or want to know. For as you know the only thing that will last, is how much Christ has been formed in you. 

May I just toss out one question to chew on. 

Why is the life of self so evil? 

It is because the “life of self” is that which elevates itself above that which is right. (i. e. righteousness) 

Just something to chew on. 

@Gideon

I so much love reading your testimony. It gives me so much hope that I to can get my “well done”, and be pleasing to Jesus. God is so good and kind and just waits to bless all those that are willing to walk in righteousness. 

Much love and prayers to my brothers in Christ. May God grant you an increase of Himself in both of you. 

In Christ, Not me 

AMEN....I see what you are saying and agree with all that you have said here.  Yes, life of self elevating itself above the righteousness of Christ....Lucifer's downfall.  (And we see this rising up in spades with the spirit of political correctness nowadays in both church and society....really that is the self-righteousness of man presuming to correct the righteousness of God, who says to speak TRUTH to our neighbour.)

Thanks for this discussion, I'm encouraged by it......God bless you all.  (Just a reminder to you as well, that I'm a sister....wish there was a female portrait to go by my name there...... No apology necessary.   )

[Not me]

@Heleadethme

Ahhhh, I like this! ;

“.really that is the self-righteousness of man presuming to correct the righteousness of God, who says to speak TRUTH to our neighbour.”

This is very true. I think it goes to the heart of self righteousness. Humanity presuming to know more than God. What we “think” is right and wrong against what God “knows” to be right and wrong. Very well said!  

As far as calling you a brother, I have a excuse;

Scripture says; 

“there is neither male nor female” 

so that’s my defense. 

But  @Gideon  is “without excuse”,  so you have my permission to thrash him, and push him into Jesus. (said with tongue in cheek).

much love in Christ, Not me 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Not me

[Gideon]

4 hours ago, Not me said:

@Heleadethme

Ahhhh, I like this! ;

“.really that is the self-righteousness of man presuming to correct the righteousness of God, who says to speak TRUTH to our neighbour.”

This is very true. I think it goes to the heart of self righteousness. Humanity presuming to know more than God. What we “think” is right and wrong against what God “knows” to be right and wrong. Very well said!  

As far as calling you a brother, I have a excuse;

Scripture says; 

“there is neither male nor female” 

so that’s my defense. 

But  @Gideon  is “without excuse”,  so you have my permission to thrash him, and push him into Jesus. (said with tongue in cheek).

much love in Christ, Not me 

Hey, it was the ‘He’ in his..... er....her... handle that got me. My sincerely apologies.

Gids