angels4u Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Adstar said: Jesus and God are one .. How can they be seperated spiritually? Where does this teaching come from? Can someone quote scripture to support this teaching? Did you read the whole thing? I posted this to SHOW that it is false doctrine.... I don't believe Jesus died spiritually . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, other one said: Jesus's body was put into the tomb, but where did his spirit go? Sallom other one, I notice that no one had responded to your post at this time, so I tool the liberty to reply. I have to admit that my post is not put in a perfect order, as it comunicate in a way that I have put words into your mouth. And that you may be in agreement with the the issues in my posting. I need to clarified that this is my posting and not your position on the issues raised in my posting. I wanted to make that clear to the reader. And that may raise another question: (For those who believe that he went to the place of the dead) And why did he have to go to the place of the dead. And did he had a choice or he had to follow in the path of man, the only inheritance for man at that time at the time of their death, to descent to the place of the dead. And how did he go there, did he go there on his own, or someone had to guide him to that place. That's why we say "Jesus CHRIST was raised from the dead". Was it important for Jesus to go to the place of the dead. Edited July 5, 2018 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2018 16 hours ago, angels4u said: Did you read the whole thing? I posted this to SHOW that it is false doctrine.... I don't believe Jesus died spiritually . Yes and i never stated that you believed it,, I was asking for anyone who does believe it to bring forth their scriptural evidence for the doctrine.. Note i said "can someone quote scripture to support this doctrine" I was not laying down a challenge to you to provide scriptures angels4u.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 8:45 AM, shiloh357 said: Jesus died physically. God cannot die. Jesus' deity did not die on the cross. Jesus saved the thief on the cross, which proves that Jesus was still God when he hung on the cross. Only God can save. If Jesus were just a man on the cross, He would have had the power to save the thief. The thief was the only one who believed that Jesus was the Messiah, even thought he show him dead on the Cross, (he died after Jesus died on the Cross), He was the first to be redeemed. Why did he go to Abraham's bossom instand of going in Heaven? Why Jesus did not go to Heaven imediadly after he died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 4:36 PM, angels4u said: The reason I put this topic up was that I was surprised that Arnold Fruchtenbaught believes that Jesus did die How can God die,think of it,really? Reading the above post that asks the question: "Did Jesus died on the Cross spiritually?", The Preacher is using a definition of what is "spiritual death", We need to question the application of this definition in the contextual facts that apllies to Jesus Christ. His definition is not wrong, it does need some clarification to understand if it applies to JESUS CHRIST. Jesus is portrait as the second ADAM. We know that the first Adam at the time of his Creation inherited what his Creator had. His Life and his righteousness. He found himself and the same with Eve with the Life and the righteousness of their Creator. And as long as they did not disobey him in his only commandment they remained in his Life and had the same righteousness as their Creator. The bottom line is the momment they disobey their Creator they were seperated spiritually from him, but not from his fellowship. They had spiritual seperation because of the disobedience but not death because of sins. The same thing happened before them with Eosphoros and his Angels. So the Devil knew the moment Adam and Eve disobey the commandment they will be spiritually seperated from God. Fallen from the same spiritual state of God. The author in the article above, has failed to show that Jesus who is portrait as the second ADAM, meaning that he had the same life in him as God and he was in right standing with God had at some point disobey God and that's why he became "spiritually seperated from God". And he claims that this disobedience took place while Jesus was on the Cross and before he dies. The author does not claim that Jesus died with spiritual death in him, he claims that at some time before his death on the Cross, the Father gave him Life again or the Father removed the spiritual seperation from between them and gave him Life, restored him to Life , to his Life again, so when Jesus died was not spititually seperated from God. In the scriptures we see that immediately after the fall of Adam, God had said only the seed of the woman the CHRIST JESUS can restored the life of God and that only when he first died on the Cross. He did not say the last part , but that was revealed later on. That time it was made clear that God cannot restored the Life in man, we had many righteous men on earth but God could not restored the life of God in them. Adam lost the Life, but not his righteousness as he did not sin. "Because of Adam's disobedience sin enter the world", (not Adam, not Abel, not Enoch. ). Only the CHRIST could do that. The redemptionist, and the Life giver. And it seems that the author was sidetracted by some wrong teachings portraying Jesus in away not just as the scriptures says: He was made the propritiation for our sins, God never punish Jesus CHRIST with our sins, but he considered the punisment he received from the people as the punishment for our sins, so that we know that sins as believers cannot bring spiritual death to us , they do affect the fellowship we have with him and to what degree. Some spiritual eartly seperation because the believer may be fellowshiping with some other spirits , part time or to full time or to overtime. What brings spiritual death is the disobedience to refuse to believe in Jesus CHRIST, to die with the denial that Jesus CHRIST died for the forgivness of our sins. The first Adam he disobeyed and was spiritual seperated from God, but not from his fellowship. He was with spiritual seperation in him, but he was in righteousness as he never sin. He was a righteous person without sin, and his children were born in righteousness(inheritted righteousness from him), and spiritual seperation. Abel a righteous person. Kain a righteous person till he sin, and by sinning he was cut off from God. He had death in him, as he was seperated from God not only spiritualy, but because of his sin. (A very serious one, to take the life of someone) The same as Abraham a righteous person , because God gave him righteousness, but without the life of God, spiritual seperation , CHRIST will come to bring imputed righteousness and imputed Life. As he is we are, with the same life and righteousness as him. So we can be with him in Heaven not only his inheritance but also ours. As he is also our Patriarch we are his people. not death as withing the meaning of the "Gentiles", or the situation of Kain after he sin. Seperated from his life and in their sins. God had chidten after the fall had righteousness but not LIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 11:13 AM, Adstar said: The question then has to be asked.. What is the definition of spiritual death? Does anyone cease to exist? Death to me is just a transition from one form of existence to another form of existence.. Once we are created we never cease to exist.. In one form or another.. For the rest of us, the spirit is what is "born" when we are "born again". The lost don't have it. They are not immortal. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Adstar said: Yes and i never stated that you believed it,, I was asking for anyone who does believe it to bring forth their scriptural evidence for the doctrine.. Note i said "can someone quote scripture to support this doctrine" I was not laying down a challenge to you to provide scriptures angels4u.. I didn't think you did,just wanted to be sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Still Alive said: For the rest of us, the spirit is what is "born" when we are "born again". The lost don't have it. They are not immortal. IMO. They are 2 different kinds of spirits ,we need to be born out of the Spirit of God.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: Reading the above post that asks the question: "Did Jesus died on the Cross spiritually?", The Preacher is using a definition of what is "spiritual death", We need to question the application of this definition in the contextual facts that apllies to Jesus Christ. His definition is not wrong, it does need some clarification to understand if it applies to JESUS CHRIST. Jesus is portrait as the second ADAM. We know that the first Adam at the time of his Creation inherited what his Creator had. His Life and his righteousness. He found himself and the same with Eve with the Life and the righteousness of their Creator. And as long as they did not disobey him in his only commandment they remained in his Life and had the same righteousness as their Creator. The bottom line is the momment they disobey their Creator they were seperated spiritually from him, but not from his fellowship. They had spiritual seperation because of the disobedience but not death because of sins. The same thing happened before them with Eosphoros and his Angels. So the Devil knew the moment Adam and Eve disobey the commandment they will be spiritually seperated from God. Fallen from the same spiritual state of God. The author in the article above, has failed to show that Jesus who is portrait as the second ADAM, meaning that he had the same life in him as God and he was in right standing with God had at some point disobey God and that's why he became "spiritually seperated from God". And he claims that this disobedience took place while Jesus was on the Cross and before he dies. The author does not claim that Jesus died with spiritual death in him, he claims that at some time before his death on the Cross, the Father gave him Life again or the Father removed the spiritual seperation from between them and gave him Life, restored him to Life , to his Life again, so when Jesus died was not spititually seperated from God. In the scriptures we see that immediately after the fall of Adam, God had said only the seed of the woman the CHRIST JESUS can restored the life of God and that only when he first died on the Cross. He did not say the last part , but that was revealed later on. That time it was made clear that God cannot restored the Life in man, we had many righteous men on earth but God could not restored the life of God in them. Adam lost the Life, but not his righteousness as he did not sin. "Because of Adam's disobedience sin enter the world", (not Adam, not Abel, not Enoch. ). Only the CHRIST could do that. The redemptionist, and the Life giver. And it seems that the author was sidetracted by some wrong teachings portraying Jesus in away not just as the scriptures says: He was made the propritiation for our sins, God never punish Jesus CHRIST with our sins, but he considered the punisment he received from the people as the punishment for our sins, so that we know that sins as believers cannot bring spiritual death to us , they do affect the fellowship we have with him and to what degree. Some spiritual eartly seperation because the believer may be fellowshiping with some other spirits , part time or to full time or to overtime. What brings spiritual death is the disobedience to refuse to believe in Jesus CHRIST, to die with the denial that Jesus CHRIST died for the forgivness of our sins. The first Adam he disobeyed and was spiritual seperated from God, but not from his fellowship. He was with spiritual seperation in him, but he was in righteousness as he never sin. He was a righteous person without sin, and his children were born in righteousness(inheritted righteousness from him), and spiritual seperation. Abel a righteous person. Kain a righteous person till he sin, and by sinning he was cut off from God. He had death in him, as he was seperated from God not only spiritualy, but because of his sin. (A very serious one, to take the life of someone) The same as Abraham a righteous person , because God gave him righteousness, but without the life of God, spiritual seperation , CHRIST will come to bring imputed righteousness and imputed Life. As he is we are, with the same life and righteousness as him. So we can be with him in Heaven not only his inheritance but also ours. As he is also our Patriarch we are his people. not death as withing the meaning of the "Gentiles", or the situation of Kain after he sin. Seperated from his life and in their sins. God had chidten after the fall had righteousness but not LIFE. I didn't agree with this preacher either but many people do , that's why I posted it Jesus died for our sins absolutely not because of punishment, Jesus never sinned and only through Him we have everlasting life ,our Savior lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted July 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,174 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 3,070 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) On 6/19/2018 at 6:54 PM, shiloh357 said: Jesus did not die spiritually, because for Jesus to die spiritually, Jesus would have become sinful. Spiritual death is the result of sin. Jesus' bore OUR sin. He did not become sinful. He bore the penalty for our sin, but our sin was imputed to Jesus, it was not imparted to Jesus. Our sins were nailed to Jesus' cross and He satisfied God's justice and redeemed us from the curse of the law. God sent His only begotten Son Christ Jesus for the purpose of bringing man kind back to God through His sacrifice on the cross. Christ Jesus part God , part man got to experience All the human feelings and challenges we humans go through in this life. when Christ Jesus experienced these human parts God also experienced this through His Son Christ Jesus. Through the experience of Christ Jesus, God knows what its like to be man and with that comes all possibilities and that would included separation from God spiritually. So the explanations from angels4u would make sense. Christ Jesus is our advocate before the Lord, it would make sense that all that Christ suffered including spiritual separation from God would be the exact same things us as making experience, making the Christ both man and God as mentioned in the bible to bring us back to God by suffering ALLthe penalties of carnal sin for us(taking on Him all of our sins) ,. Carnal sin unrepented =emotional separation from God. when Christ took on ALL the sins of the world He had to separate spiritually for a while from God as God is TRUTH- who is LIGHT cannot be in the presence of darkness-lie-. Only Christ who came down to save us(from the penalty of sin=complete spiritual separation from God) who was part man & part God and had that capacity to take on our sins so to free us from them once and for all and make us acceptable to join back to God through Him. So the time period where Christ was taking all the sins of the world unto Himself, He had to go into complete darkness,-separation from God spiritually) as Father God who is Complete LAW, complete TRUTH could not be there, God had to separated from His son for this sacrifice to be completed. On 6/19/2018 at 4:36 PM, angels4u said: The reason I put this topic up was that I was surprised that Arnold Fruchtenbaught believes that Jesus did die How can God die,think of it,really? Edited July 5, 2018 by 1to3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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