Guest shiloh357 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, Davida said: Well exactly ...Christians are supposed to obey the laws not mock them & help others to break them. This complete abdication by Christians for law and order is what happens when you define Christianity by social justice and humanitarianism and stop defining Christianity by the Bible. We should help people and do what we can to help the poor and needy. No one denies that. But we have allowed social justice to hi-jack Christianity. As a result Christians are being guilted and emotionally manipulated if they don't just want to give away the farm to people who are coming here to take advantage of us. And what is so astounding to me is that you are not supposed to think critically about the issue. You are just supposed to take a knee-jerk reaction and just support the liberal non-enforcement of any kind of border security, because if you support actually checking and vetting and making sure that people are who they say they are, you are somehow violating a tenet of Christianity. It' doesn't matter that the majority of the kids are either unaccompanied or are being used by human traffickers and we need to make sure that everyone who says they are a "parent" really is. That's called "thinking" and that's not "Christian." We are supposed to simply accept the narrative that EVERY SINGLE person who claims to be a parent with a child IS a parent and we are to accept that without question and without reservation and just send them into the US. It doesn't matter that some of those kids will go into the US and be abused by the traffickers. That's called "thinking" and you're not supposed to think about that. Because the "Christians" who are engaging in emotional manipulation don't really care about the kids; they just care about the social justice angle. And if some of the kids end up in the sex-slave trade, that's small price to pay for the good feeling that virtue signaling and the fake morality of social justice, gives them. The kids are reunited with their parents inside of 20 days. But no, you're supposed to believe that the kids are ripped from their parents' arms and locked up in cages never to be seen again. The kids are taken to care centers appropriate to their ages, and are fed, given fresh clothes, get to play video games, play on computers, watch movies, play sports, and they are fed hot dogs, pizza and other food that kids like to eat, they are fed three times a day and get two snacks, they are examined by doctors and nurses and psychologists and even get a social worker. But you are not supposed to think about that. That doesn't fit that liberal narrative. You are not supposed to think or talk about that. You are supposed to believe the narrative that kids live in cages and are being abused by their Nazi captors and are starving and so on. Liberalism where this issue is concerned, is all about promoting a particular politically correct narrative that you are supposed to accept without question, without even thinking about it at all. Check out the thread I started on weaponizing compassion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Badjao33 said: Women and children from central America have been recognized by the US courts to be a persecuted group. Liberal courts that don't follow the law. Just because they come from a violent part of the world, it doesn't make them a persecuted group. Quote Less than 1% fall into that category. Which is irrelevant. But it is interesting to know that your "Christianity" has recognizable limits when it comes to compassion. Quote Most undocumented people entering the country do show up for for their hearings and just last year Trump ended the Family Case Management Program (FCMP) in which 99.6 percent of ankle monitored families and 100 percent of families who were paired with caseworkers along with ankle monitors showed up for their court hearings. Most asylum seekers are law abiding. That was a better and cheaper plan than anything we have going on now. Under the "catch and release" program almost NO ONE showed up for their hearings. Sure if you have some who are being monitored and tracked, you can get them to show up, but the majority never show up and end just disappearing into the country. Quote I don't think anyone is advocating ignoring the law. Yes, they are. When American lawyers tell the human scum in the drug cartels that they will have a better chance of entering the country by pretending to be parents that is an attempt to ignore the law. Quote Seeking asylum is legal even for people without any documentation or papers, and by law if someone arrives at the border asking for asylum or expressing fear of returning to their own country whether its at a checkpoint or not, border agents are required to refer the person to an asylum officer who then decides their eligibility for protection. So in the case of all of those coming from places like Guatemala, El-Salvador, and Honduras crossing the border seeking asylum, they are not breaking any laws even if they are breaching the border at a point far from a checkpoint. They don't become illegal until they miss a hearing or fail to follow instructions. They are told to request asylum. They don't qualify for asylum. They are not asylum seekers and that applies to drug cartels. They are asking for asylum too, but then that's only 1% (according to you), so that doesn't matter. Fortunately, most of us aren't buying the snake oil you are peddling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Badjao33 said: Women and children from central America have been recognized by the US courts to be a persecuted group. Less than 1% fall into that category. Most undocumented people entering the country do show up for for their hearings and just last year Trump ended the Family Case Management Program (FCMP) in which 99.6 percent of ankle monitored families and 100 percent of families who were paired with caseworkers along with ankle monitors showed up for their court hearings. Most asylum seekers are law abiding. That was a better and cheaper plan than anything we have going on now. I don't think anyone is advocating ignoring the law. Seeking asylum is legal even for people without any documentation or papers, and by law if someone arrives at the border asking for asylum or expressing fear of returning to their own country whether its at a checkpoint or not, border agents are required to refer the person to an asylum officer who then decides their eligibility for protection. So in the case of all of those coming from places like Guatemala, El-Salvador, and Honduras crossing the border seeking asylum, they are not breaking any laws even if they are breaching the border at a point far from a checkpoint. They don't become illegal until they miss a hearing or fail to follow instructions. I did some checking. You keep calling them asylum seekers. Less than 10% of illegals are asylum seekers. The ones in my state are not asylum seekers. They come and go across the border quite freely. Often going back to mexico on taxpayer dime, by showing up and saying hey Im illegal I should get deported. The ones in my state (and its a high population) are multiple deportees with no interest in seeking asylum or becoming legal residents. They have no incentive. Come see the reality for yourself. Come visit arizona and see whats really going on with illegals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Badjao33 said: I don't think anyone is advocating ignoring the law. Mexico encourages their citizens to cross the border illegally. Mexican government provides maps and even has an app that helps them evade border patrol. This article explains some of this. The rest Ive read in the local news here. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2018 CBP's latest statistics show that agents in Yuma apprehended a total of 1,080 unaccompanied minors in May. That's an average of 35 each day along the sector's 126-mile-long border with Mexico. By comparison, agents in April detained 451 minors, less than half of May's total. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2018/06/13/yuma-area-record-spike-minors-crossing-border-illegally/679710002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_abc Posted June 23, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 898 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 536 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, shiloh357 said: So the separation is only for 20 days under the current law um.. if I am not mistaken.. I thought that under current usa laws or regulations (or a court case settlement?).. that the usa government is only allowed to hold children in detention facilities up to 20 days only? .. If so and if the parents are going to be held in detention facilities for several months while waiting for their cases to conclude.. how are their children going to be returned to them? Also with regards to traffickers posing as parents.. I think that is a serious issue.... But I don't understand why a different method can't be used to try to determine if those people claiming to be parents really are the children's parents.. Such as perhaps questioning the older children (such as teenagers).. and doing dna tests on the younger children (such as babies and toddlers etc) ? If I am not mistaken the number of children reportedly removed from their families in a six weeks or more period was maybe over 2300 children? That is an average of less than 400 children per week (if my maths is correct). And some of them would be older children. Even if one wanted to do dna tests on all 400 children including teens.. and not just on the babies etc... samples for dna testing..if stored properly.. can be transported easily.. So they could be sent to different facilities / locations for testing.. or even to other states perhaps. ..There are likely many places in the usa that would have the technical resources or equipment to be able to do a dna test.. even perhaps some universities labs or private sector labs? And dna tests nowadays are much easier or faster.. compared to almost a couple of decades ago. Plus while I don't know what the cost of a dna test is in the usa.. i am guessing it might be less than the cost of hiring someone to look after a baby 24/7.. for up to several months? If so .. i.e. if it does cost less to american taxpayers to do dna tests on the very young children.. rather than having to pay people to look after them for months.. and if it might be less traumatic to families to do so.... then why not just do the dna tests ? Sorry not trying to be rude or anything. Just really puzzled. Because if the reason for taking babies away from their mothers is simply that one is not sure if the adult really is the biological mother as claimed.. there is a simple way one could find out.. and one that perhaps might actually cost less to american taxpayers in the long run? Sorry just puzzled . Not meaning any offence to anyone. Thanks. Edited June 23, 2018 by just_abc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted June 23, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,014 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,276 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,333 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 19 hours ago, Badjao33 said: Women and children from central America have been recognized by the US courts to be a persecuted group. Less than 1% fall into that category. Most undocumented people entering the country do show up for for their hearings and just last year Trump ended the Family Case Management Program (FCMP) in which 99.6 percent of ankle monitored families and 100 percent of families who were paired with caseworkers along with ankle monitors showed up for their court hearings. Most asylum seekers are law abiding. That was a better and cheaper plan than anything we have going on now. I don't think anyone is advocating ignoring the law. Seeking asylum is legal even for people without any documentation or papers, and by law if someone arrives at the border asking for asylum or expressing fear of returning to their own country whether its at a checkpoint or not, border agents are required to refer the person to an asylum officer who then decides their eligibility for protection. So in the case of all of those coming from places like Guatemala, El-Salvador, and Honduras crossing the border seeking asylum, they are not breaking any laws even if they are breaching the border at a point far from a checkpoint. They don't become illegal until they miss a hearing or fail to follow instructions. They are illegal because they do not attend their hearings or follow instructions!! (Those that had ankle monitoring bracelets didn't have a choice so showed up.) The TV program 20/20 had a show about this a few years ago....that they do not show up for their hearings, but just disappear into the USA! What we keep explaining is that these illegal aliens simply cross our border and disappear into the USA. They don't care about following our laws but they do apply for every benefit possible. And there are many Americans needing that help. We have a million (or maybe more by now) illegal aliens in the Los Angeles metropolitan area!! These people cross the border and disappear into our city. We have a huge population of Hispanics. So it's easy for illegal aliens to just come here and reside, just blend in. I get along with all nationalities but I do think people should respect and obey our country's laws. I normally keep quiet about politics but think there is a time to speak up when all you hear on the news is the liberal agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted June 23, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,014 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,276 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,333 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 11 hours ago, ayin jade said: Mexico encourages their citizens to cross the border illegally. Mexican government provides maps and even has an app that helps them evade border patrol. This article explains some of this. The rest Ive read in the local news here. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html Also, I heard that Mexico is not regulating their Southern border because they know the people from Central America are heading for the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretopossumcabal Posted June 23, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 207 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 188 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2018 Because it's a related, If people don't think there is an active conspiracy for population replacement, this is the recent "refugee" ship "The Aquarius", that was refused entry by Italy and dumped its cargohold of humans off in Spain. Now it's going back to Libya to traffic even more people in an on-going population replacement. Why are governments allowing human trafficking to go on? Why did they kill Gaddafi? Why do Liberals hate borders so much? Satan's plan is just all too obvious at this point and very few governments care because they've been compromised by him. He needs to weaken the first world by importing the third world in order to gain a global stranglehold, which will eventually lead to nobody questioning the mark of the beast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 16 hours ago, Badjao33 said: The courts that made those decisions are ran by the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) which operates under the US Department of Justice. Which doesn't mean they are following the law. These people do not qualify for asylum. Quote It is relevant because you don't punish 99% of a group because of the actions of 1%. While it happens, human traffickers are not bringing a significant number of children across the border. Remember, we are talking about people who are being caught at the border. How many traffickers do you think are actually getting away with bringing a child into the country successfully? Border agents know what to look out for, and a majority are being detained. Separating the children from adults in order to sort through which ones are parents and which ones are not is not "punishing" anyone. It isn't pleasant, but it is necessary when they don't have any documentation or identification with them in order to know which is which. And the fact that only 1% doesn't mean that it is okay to forego saving the 1% as if they are somehow expendable simply because they are not the majority. Quote My compassion has no limits. Supporting a policy that treats everyone as a criminal and taking their children away while they await a hearing shows a lack of compassion the way I see it. When you don't know who the criminals are, then you have to assume they all are until you know for sure. The idea is to protect ALL of the children, not just the majority. That 1% despite what you think, is not expendable and it is not acceptable to forego sorting out the criminals from the parents simply because you don't think 1% is worth the time. Quote According to the Department of Justice most do show up for their hearings. No, they don't. For those of us who prefer to tell the truth>>> https://www.numbersusa.com/news/report-18-20-illegal-aliens-dont-show-court-hearing https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/more-90-percent-group-illegal-immigrants-surge-summer-never-showed-their-immigration/ https://hotair.com/archives/2014/09/25/dhs-secret-revealed-tens-of-thousands-of-illegals-released-during-the-border-crisis-didnt-show-up-for-their-immigration-hearings/ Quote What is your source that shows American lawyers are telling drug cartels to pose as parents? If it is happening, it is not a widespread problem. It has already been shown in another thread that 99.4% of the families arriving at the border in 2017-18 are legitimate. Once again, treating 99.4% of a group as criminals for the actions of 0.06% is wrong. The reports are buried now and hard to find, but under the Obama administration, lawyers were sent to the border to help and advise illegal aliens about how to get around the law. Besides telling them to claim they were seeking asylum, they advised illegals to have children with them. And that it would give them a better chance at gaining sympathy if the border authorities thought they were parents of those children. It doesn't matter if it is widespread. You keep acting like it doesn't matter if it doesn't happen too much. We don't want it happening AT ALL. The 1% doesn't mean it is only or two. Rather, it means that hundreds and even thousands per year are being trafficked. As for being treated like a criminal... If you are eating at restaurant, and a mad man comes into the restaurant wielding a shotgun and you pull out your concealed-carry weapon and shoot the mad man, you are still going to be arrested and taken to the police station for questioning and will likely spend overnight in jail until the police investigate. Even though you engaged in lawful self-defense, you and the mad man are going to be treated the same until you are cleared of any wrong doing. So this is something that happens in the US to US citizens. Everyone is separated until the authorities are satisfied that they know who the parents are and the children are returned to them. I realize that doesn't fit your liberal narrative, but that is how things are. You need stop being so emotional and weak and wake up to reality. Quote I'm only trying to bring some facts to the table. No, you're just spewing the liberal narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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