The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

RM, Rachel and Joseph are dead. This has nothing to do with people that existed 2000 years ago. By doing this you are placing a 2000 year gap in between Rev 12:5 and Rev 12:6. That's false. If I remember correctly you are pre-trib, and Rev 12:5 harpazo confirms that belief so why you are fighting this is bizarre.

Its a CODE MAN not a Gap, just like the Rev. 17 Kings via 5 HAVE FALLEN and ONE IS and one is YET TO COME is not a 2000-2500 year Gap to the Prophecy because John couldn't PROPHECY about the past 5 KINGS or the King THAT WAS.........Those were JUST FACTS, not Prophetic uttering's. Likewise the CODE about the Woman (Israel) the male child Jesus and the Red Dragon (Satan) who tried to KILL Jesus also WAS NOT A Prophetic uttering, not could it be, it was PAST EVENTS, just like the Genesis 37:9 Code was also PAST EVENTS............the Prophetic uttering, just like I stated before, starts in Rev. 12:6 and runs through Rev. 12:17. Its about Israel Fleeing Judea and God protecting her for 1260 days. They had to encode it, John couldn't wrote down that Israel were going to be PROTECTED by God, the Romans had just subdued Israel/Jerusalem, that would have been see as SEDITION, so they wrote it in CODED LANGUAGE !! Why can't people understand the obvious here? ITS ENCODED for a reason.

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

A 2000 year gap is not biblical RM.

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Its not a Gap, its a CODE !! The Prophecy starts in verse 6. 

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

4 times, wow. i'm surprised you didn't make it 5 or 6 times, lol. Rev 12:1-5 has only come to pass once on 9/23/17. Everything lining up plus Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks has only occurred once.

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That was just in the 1000 years that the Astronomer CHECKED to disprove the bunk, its got to be more. Its just Astrology. 

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I guess poo pooing on astronomy is the thing now. Blessed is the one who hears it and takes it to heart, Rev 1:3

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Its Astrology, astronomy would not call Planets STARS to start with. 

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

That's right, so he uses the sun, moon and stars which everyone can see instead of people who are dead and buried? ?

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Read Genesis 37:9, God uses all kind of things when he gives DREAMS.......See the Statue of Daniel.

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 4-5 are describing the scene in heaven at rapture. The entire chapter of Rev 12 is describing the 70th week. You sound silly putting a 2000 year gap in between verses. Where is your faith RM?

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Maybe verse 1 in chapter 4, but in Rev. ch. 5 they already have their White Raiment (Robes) on, thus they have already married the Lamb. Rev. 19 is a Parenthetical Citation, not a real time chapter/EVENT. Rev. 16 says IT IS DONE !!

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

And I suppose you would the deny the blood moon tetrad falling on Jewish Holidays in 2014-15? It's all part of the secret code man, the aliens are here. To much HBO for you.

You just dodged the lesson hey? That's OK, just remember where you learned that tid-bit at brother. I understand the possible blood moons and TETRADS, but I am afraid most people don't understand the SIGN until many years latter, if its a sign at all, like the 1492 sign would have been Spain casting out the Jews, no one would have understood it to be a sign at the time right ?  But it has nothing to do with the Rapture.

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Oh I see, so if God uses the stars to guide us closer to the rapture and the 70th week that's astrology? Really? 

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God never uses Astrology, he ENCODED Rev. 12 with Genesis 37:9.

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Are you born again RM, are you covered under the blood of Christ? God bless.

I have been a preacher over 30 years...........Are you born again ? Kinda a silly question right?  Its what people do when they can't debate a point it seems.

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Likewise the CODE about the Woman (Israel) the male child Jesus and the Red Dragon (Satan) who tried to KILL Jesus also WAS NOT A Prophetic uttering

RM, the word "teknon" is a reference to the church, not Jesus Christ.

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Its Astrology, astronomy would not call Planets STARS to start with. 

Who is calling planets stars? 

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I have been a preacher over 30 years...........Are you born again ? Kinda a silly question right?  Its what people do when they can't debate a point it seems.

Preaching for 90 years has nothing to do with understanding context. ?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Hello iam. I have a different interpretation if you will. Since John used the words "huios" and "teknon" to describe the child, the child therefore can only be the body of Christ being born through rapture, via John is connecting the head with the body Col 1:18. The word "teknon" is never used to describe Jesus Christ alone, it's always used in the context of either the body of Christ or a believer himself.

Rev 12:1-5 is not using singular entities, rather it's describing corporate entities in the end times. Rev 12:6-17 is an entire description of the 70th week of Daniel.

1. Israel - The Woman
2. The Body of Christ - The Child
3. The Anti-Christ System - The Dragon (Rev 13)

God Bless.

teknon:  Strongs:  offspring, children

1. child

   1. a male child, a son

Mat 2:18  In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, ^G5043 and would not be comforted, because they are not.

Mat 7:11  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, ^G5043 how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

It should be very obvious it is speaking of a normal child birthed from a normal woman.  To come up with the church here one must add imagination. KJV translated it as a child 77 times.  How then could anyone imagine this word is not used typically as a child?  

huios Strongs:

Translated as Son 85 times 

Translated as child or children 49 times. 

a son

1. rarely used for the young of animals

2. generally used of the offspring of men

3. in a restricted sense, the male offspring (one born by a father and of a mother)

Again it should be very obvious it is speaking of a normal child birthed from a normal woman. But with the previous Greek word, it specifies a Male child.  How then could anyone imagine that is in reference to the church? In any translation a normal reading by a 5th grader would tell us it is speaking of a typical male child. 

Pulpit commentary:  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; a son, a male - the Greek υἱόν, ἄρσεν, renders it emphatic - who is to rule, as in the Revised Version; to rule, or to govern as a shepherd (cf. the verb in Matthew 2:6). This reference and Psalm 2:9 leave no doubt as to the identification of the man child. It is Christ who is intended. The same expression is used of him in Revelation 19, where he is definitely called the "Word of God." And her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. The sentence seems plainly to refer to the ascension of Christ and his subsequent abiding in heaven, from whence he rules all nations.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:  rod of iron—A rod is for long-continued obstinacy until they submit themselves to obedience [Bengel]: Re 2:27; Ps 2:9, which passages prove the Lord Jesus to be meant. Any interpretation which ignores this must be wrong.

As I said, if someone imagines a secondary meaning, such as the church ruling the world with a rod of iron, I would not argue much. I would only say that the child Jesus is the primary meaning.

[iamlamad]

17 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

RM, the word "teknon" is a reference to the church, not Jesus Christ.

Who is calling planets stars? 

Preaching for 90 years has nothing to do with understanding context. ?

Amen to that!

[Heb 13:8]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

teknon:  Strongs:  offspring, children

1. child

   1. a male child, a son

How then could anyone imagine that is in reference to the church?

Because the entire context of Rev 12 is in reference to prophecy and the 70th week of Daniel, not Martha sitting on her back porch with her child drinking tea. The word "harpazo" in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is in reference to end times application. God bless.

[Revelation Man]

17 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

RM, the word "teknon" is a reference to the church, not Jesus Christ.

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The word means nothing more than a male child, as I have proven. You keep looking to Astrology. 

17 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Who is calling planets stars? 

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And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Of the 12 STARS about three that are counted as STARS are PLANETS......LOL Come on man.

17 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Preaching for 90 years has nothing to do with understanding context. ?

I could preach for 2 days and still know more than people who look towards Astrology, but I am called to Prophecy, and just might know more about it than anyone you have ever met. That is because I seek God 24/7/365, not men or men's traditions, God gives to those that seek His will.

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Because the entire context of Rev 12 is in reference to prophecy and the 70th week of Daniel, not Martha sitting on her back porch with her child drinking tea. The word "harpazo" in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is in reference to end times application. God bless.

This is your word against the Holy Spirit's word. I think I will choose HIS opinion!  I could tell you the exact words that Jesus Christ - the Head of the Church spoke to me concerning Rev. 12:1-5...but no one would believe me, so why bother? I will agree that 12:6 to the end of the chapter is about the 70th week. Keep in mind, God is omnipotent and can do what He desires. He can write what He desires, and He did.  He CHOSE to show John what the dragon did when He was born on earth. 

Again I disagree: Harpazo is in relation to the church age, because it is the catching up of the church - the body of Christ - all those "in Christ."  However, according to some scripture, the entire church age is "last days." Is that your meaning?

[Last Daze]

44 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I could tell you the exact words that Jesus Christ - the Head of the Church spoke to me concerning Rev. 12:1-5...but no one would believe me, so why bother?

Why even mention that unless you're trying to establish some kind of authority that can't be challenged?  I have a real problem with the "God told me so" argument as proof.  Maybe He did reveal something to you.  Maybe He didn't.  One thing is for sure.  If He did, it will harmonize with His written word.  I'm not trying to challenge whether God revealed something to you or not, however, claiming that "God told me so" in an debate weakens your position.  Stick to the written word.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Why even mention that unless you're trying to establish some kind of authority that can't be challenged?  I have a real problem with the "God told me so" argument as proof.  Maybe He did reveal something to you.  Maybe He didn't.  One thing is for sure.  If He did, it will harmonize with His written word.  I'm not trying to challenge whether God revealed something to you or not, however, claiming that "God told me so" in an debate weakens your position.  Stick to the written word.

I am not going to deny that God spoke and I heard His words! Paul did not deny it. Others in the Bible did not deny it. Have your problem. The truth is, God spoke in times past and He still speaks today. 

It DOES harmonize with what is written: it is EXACTLY what is written.  The problem is, people try to read something else into scripture for what ever reasons.  I could have guessed, but reading those first 5 verses, that it was about Jesus' birth. But after God spoke, now I KNOW. His speaking certainly did not weaken MY position: before I guessed, but now I know. 

However, I understand your post, because others on these threads claim the same thing - that they hear from the Holy Spirit, and I disagree with almost everything they say.

Edited July 17, 2018 by iamlamad

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I am not going to deny that God spoke and I heard His words! Paul did not deny it. Others in the Bible did not deny it. Have your problem. The truth is, God spoke in times past and He still speaks today. 

It DOES harmonize with what is written: it is EXACTLY what is written.  The problem is, people try to read something else into scripture for what ever reasons.  I could have guessed, but reading those first 5 verses, that it was about Jesus' birth. But after God spoke, now I KNOW. His speaking certainly did not weaken MY position: before I guessed, but now I know. 

However, I understand your post, because others on these threads claim the same thing - that they hear from the Holy Spirit, and I disagree with almost everything they say.

First off, I don't have a problem with the truth, and I don't deny that the Holy Spirit reveals truth today.  What I have a problem with is trying to buttress an argument with "special revelation", or "God told me so."  Stick to the scriptures.  They speak for themselves. 

On 7/14/2018 at 9:59 AM, Revelation Man said:

No one agrees with your Seals being opened 2000 years ago but a select few, and VERY FEW. There is a reason for that, its not of God. Revelation 5, as we went over a long time ago, has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jesus Ascending, we see the Church IN HEAVEN, which means the Rapture has already taken place. If I remember correctly you have this "THEORY" about Jesus not being in Heaven during Rev. ch. 5 because Jesus could not be found, and as I told you back then, it says Jesus couldn't be found, not only in Heaven but ON EARTH or even UNDER THE EARTH, which destroyed your whole theory, yet you have continued down that same erroneous path now a year later, even though I proved the Scriptures via that passage are not pointing to where he is or is not, else Jesus would have been NOWHERE !! But you ran with that as if its of God brother. 

The Church is in Heaven in Rev. chapters 4 and 5. The Seals are opened at the MIDWAY Point of the 70th Week. 

No one takes that 1st Century Seal being opened serious.........#PRIDE blinds us if we let it.

So, tell me.  Why should we believe you over Revelation Man concerning the seals?  Because you said so?  Both of you claim to be correct, and both of you claim to have received your understanding directly from God, so what gives?  Either you or he, or both, are wrong, because I know for sure that God doesn't contradict Himself.

On 7/13/2018 at 10:18 PM, Revelation Man said:

You missed the pointed verb there, I Study & Pray therefore I am always right, meaning of course when I say I know, that I know, that I know............. it is because I rely on the Holy Spirit, not men. But are not supposed to say I know, unless they KNOW its of the Holy Spirit, if everyone did that they also would be right 100 percent of the time, too many try to say this is of God when it s no such thing. God has never stated that Jesus opened any Seals 2000 years ago. 

So I am always correct because I rely on the Holy Spirit, now there are a lot of things I don't understand, unlike others I don't try to claim I know things when the Holy Spirit hasn't revealed them unto me. Else I might think the Seals were opened 2000 years ago.

This is exactly why when someone starts to claim "special revelation from God" that I know their argument is deficient.  Stick to the word of God.  Those who have ears to hear will hear.  There's no need to "strong-arm" someone into agreeing with you by claiming some "special revelation" because obviously, such a claim is fallible.  The word of God is infallible.