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The context of 1 Thess 5:1


Heb 13:8

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11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

iam, Rev 12 has corporate application and is referring to the generation we are in now. It does not have singular application and is not referring to events 2000 years ago.

1. Israel - The woman (corporate)
2. The body of Christ - The child (corporate)
3. The Antichrist system in Rev 13 - The Red dragon (corporate)

Was Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks while the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars? No. Look again.

iam, John in Rev 12:1-5 is writing about the birth of the church through first resurrection and rapture. Rev 4-22 has nothing to do with biblical characters 2000 years. It is only referring to end times events in which we are in now.

No, the body of Christ was conceived in the upper room. When John is referring to being "born again" in John 3:3 he is referring to individual conception through the seed. Remember not to confuse corporate conception with individual conception. You also need to take into account that Paul felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8, because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet.

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

That's right, he will not devour the church because we will be harpazo'd before Satan falls to earth.

Rev 12:4-5 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”a And her child was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. 

Rev 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

iam, i'm sorry but again no. Rom 8 and 2 Cor 5 are in reference to our resurrected bodies which we will receive at first resurrection and rapture. Did you miss Rom 8:23?

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

These two passages are also referring to our resurrected bodies. I want you to notice the words mortal and immortality and also being swallowed up in both passages below.....

1 Cor 15:50-54 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

No, the Dragon is a description of the Antichrist System inside the 70th week, iam. Notice the description of the seven heads and ten horns below...

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

Rev 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.

Here is a picture of what he saw.... 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rev+12:1-5+picture&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA0MbHhKrcAhVENd8KHaVCDoIQsAQIKA&biw=1396&bih=662#imgrc=Tul6rMisMhbP_M:

You are here attempting to teach, and you don't even know that the Dragon of chapter 12 is Satan, the devil? If I were you I would chuck your entire end time theories into file 13 and start over, following scripture exactly! The devil is shown with with seven heads and ten horns because he will be BEHIND the Beast with seven heads and ten horns. 

 

It is common church knowledge that Michael will one day get to do battle with Satan and cast Him down. Yet, you don't recognize him. Amazing. And you expect others here to believe what you write!

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Hebrews 13:8 wrote,

"iam, Rev 12 has corporate application and is referring to the generation we are in now. It does not have singular application and is not referring to events 2000 years ago.

1. Israel - The woman (corporate)
2. The body of Christ - The child (corporate)
3. The Antichrist system in Rev 13 - The Red dragon (corporate)"

 

You are failing to recognize that Rev. 12:1-5 is written as a parenthesis without any chronology. John's chronology begins with verse 6 on to the end of the chapter. It is a midpoint chapter, with verse 6 taking place a second or two after the abomination that will divide the week. 

Michael has been waiting for the sounding of the 7th trumpet, for at that sound, He will go after Satan to cast him down from the heavenly realms. It is at this moment in time that Adam's 6000 year lease will run out, and suddenly the devil will have no legal hold the the planet he usurped from Adam. Therefore it is at this time that the Kingdoms of earth are transferred from Satan to Jesus Christ - the rightful owner. And it is at this time that the war in heaven will take place.

I agree that we are in the generation that will see all these things. 

You also missed it big time, not understanding Paul's rapture timing in relation to John's Revelation chronology. At this time, the midpoint (chapters 11 & 12) Paul's rapture will have taken place 3.5 years previous. "The body of Christ" will be in heaven. Those who flee will be "the woman" or those in Judea who see the abomination and know Jesus words: so they flee. And Satan immediately goes after them. But they are supernaturally protected. 

Here is where the information in the first 5 verses come into play: the woman is identified as Israel, for the Messiah came from Israel. 

Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me.”

WHO is being represented here by the sun, the moon and the 11 stars?  Of course Jacob, a wife, and 11 sons of Jacob: in other words, ISRAEL. The "woman" is Israel from whom the Messiah came. Perhaps you don't even know this:

Daniel 9:24  “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city...

WHO? Who is the 70th week for? Is it the church? NO! It is for Israel! Chapters 8 through 16 (the 70th week) are primarily about ISRAEL. The church, or the bride of Christ will have been raptured before the 70th week even begins. 

The "antichrist system" at this moment in time, is about to be "birthed." (See? I can use that word too!) When John saw the Beast rise up out of the sea, Satan was standing on the shore, PROVING they are two different entities. Most of the church believes that when Satan is cast down, he possesses the man of sin who will then become "the Beast." However, the mark and the image to worship will not be created until the False Prophet shows up. No one knows how long after the midpoint that will be.  What we do know is that the beheadings (because some will refuse to bow or take the mark) will not begin until late in chapter 14. They begin showing up in heaven in chapter 15. 

Sorry, but your theories simply do not follow the scriptures correctly understood.  

Edited by iamlamad
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Heb 13:8 wrote, 

"Was Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks while the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars? No. Look again."

You don't even understand what John was writing, so please allow me to assist. John gave us a momentary picture of how Virgo would have appeared - the moment of Jesus' birth.  I hope you understand, God put Virgo in the sky to represent the virgin from whom Jesus was born, NOT to represent the church in any way. 

These 5 verses are a parenthesis - not related to John's midpoint chronology! Jesus the Messiah came from ISRAEL, and the church came from Jesus. The church does get grafted in to the same tree, but the church is in NO WAY pictured in Virgo. It was JESUS that was born of a Virgin! (Virgo / virgin) How do you get from Jesus born of a virgin to the church? Another non sequitur.  John is not talking about the church in this parenthesis. At this moment in time, the midpoint, the Bride of Christ will be shouting and rejoicing in heaven. Don't doubt me on this: it is scripture correctly understood! 

There are saints at the midpoint that follow Jesus, but the bride will have been in heaven for some time now.  

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Heb 13:8 wrote, 

"iam, John in Rev 12:1-5 is writing about the birth of the church through first resurrection and rapture. Rev 4-22 has nothing to do with biblical characters 2000 years. It is only referring to end times events in which we are in now."

All you are telling us is that you either don't understand a parenthesis or don't recognize that Rev. 12:1-5 is a parenthesis - not in any way related to John's midpoint timing. I will agree, outside of John's parentheses, most of Revelation from the 6th seal on is still future to us. Do you not remember that John was told he was to write of past events, present events and future events in relation to his time then, around 95 AD. You are still ignoring the fact that chapter 5 shows us the timing of Jesus' ascension, and the Holy Spirit being sent down. Those were historic events, even to John in 95 AD. 

Sorry, friend, but you are simply mistaken.

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55 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The devil is shown with with seven heads and ten horns because he will be BEHIND the Beast with seven heads and ten horns. 

This is something that a lot of people miss.  If you notice the placement of the crowns on the dragon, they're on his 7 heads.  On the beast, they are on his 10 horns.  The beast with 10 horns (Daniel 7) is pictured in Revelation 13 with the additional 7 heads of Satan to reflect that Satan gave to the beast his power, throne and great authority.

  • And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.  Revelation 13:2b

The reason why the beast with 10 horns in Daniel 7 is pictured as also having 7 heads in Revelation 13 is that it reflects the above verse.  The seven heads of Satan are his power and his throne, as the crowns indicate.

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On 7/16/2018 at 3:18 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

 

 

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Not sure why the above post was made

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5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

This is something that a lot of people miss.  If you notice the placement of the crowns on the dragon, they're on his 7 heads.  On the beast, they are on his 10 horns.  The beast with 10 horns (Daniel 7) is pictured in Revelation 13 with the additional 7 heads of Satan to reflect that Satan gave to the beast his power, throne and great authority.

  • And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.  Revelation 13:2b

The reason why the beast with 10 horns in Daniel 7 is pictured as also having 7 heads in Revelation 13 is that it reflects the above verse.  The seven heads of Satan are his power and his throne, as the crowns indicate.

The Seven Heads are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Anti-Christ/Little Horn. These Heads are Beasts over Israel. Thus Israel being as Dead Men's Bones for 2000 years from Jesus to 1948, we had no Heads/Beasts over Israel, the Last Head (Besides the Anti-Christ Beast) was still alive but it suffered a Mortal Wound (Rome), via Israel being dispersed and/or the Church in Christ being undefeatable. When we are Raptured, then and only then can the Beast come back on to the scene.  

Rev. 12 = 7 Crowns because Satan is over EVERY WORLD KINGDOM, and these 7 are Kingdoms that BEASTED over Israel which are being spoken of here, there are 1000's of Kingdoms not mentioned here.

Rev. 13 = 10 Crowns on the Horns because the Anti-Christ is over the 10 Kings.

Rev. 17 has NO CROWNS because Apollyon is not nor ever will be over Satan. Hes BUNCHED TOGETHER with the 7, thus he is OF THE SEVEN, but is an 8th. Meaning hes a "King" of sorts in a physical realm, but he is not physical, BUT..........since Apollyon is spiritual, he has to be Crowned only in that realm, and Satan holds all the Aces there. So he HAS NO CROWNS because he is over nothing, Satan is over all the Kingdoms of the Earth via the Spiritual Realm, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn is over the 10 Kings/Horns in the PHYSICAL REALM. 

Edited by Revelation Man
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2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

This is something that a lot of people miss.  If you notice the placement of the crowns on the dragon, they're on his 7 heads.  On the beast, they are on his 10 horns.  The beast with 10 horns (Daniel 7) is pictured in Revelation 13 with the additional 7 heads of Satan to reflect that Satan gave to the beast his power, throne and great authority.

  • And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.  Revelation 13:2b

The reason why the beast with 10 horns in Daniel 7 is pictured as also having 7 heads in Revelation 13 is that it reflects the above verse.  The seven heads of Satan are his power and his throne, as the crowns indicate.

Good post! Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The Seven Heads are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Anti-Christ/Little Horn. These Heads are Beasts over Israel. Thus Israel being as Dead Men's Bones for 2000 years from Jesus to 1948, we had no Heads/Beasts over Israel, the Last Head was still alive but it suffered a Mortal Wound, via Israel being dispersed and/or the Church being in Christ being undefeatable. When we are Rapture, then and only then can the Beast can back.  

Rev. 12 = 7 Crowns because Satan is over EVERY WORLD KINGDOM, and these 7 are Kingdoms that BEASTED over Israel, there are 1000's of Kingdoms not mentioned here.

Rev. 13 = 10 Crowns on the Horns because the Anti-Christ is over the 10 Kings.

Rev. 17 has NO CROWNS because Apollyon is not nor ever will be over Satan. Hes BUNCHED TOGETHER with the 7, thus he is OF THE SEVEN, but is an 8th. Meaning hes a "King" of sorts in a physical realm, but he is not physical, BUT..........since Apollyon is spiritual, he has to be Crowned only in that realm, and Satan hold all the Aces there. So he HAS NO CROWNS because he is over nothing, Satan is over all the Kingdoms of the Earth via the Spiritual Realm, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn is over the 10 Kings/Horns in the PHYSICAL REALM. 

The beast from the sea with 10 horns in Daniel 7, the beast from the sea in Revelation 13, and the beast from the abyss in Revelation 17 are all the same evil spirit being.  Just because they aren't described identically in each instance doesn't make them different.  Their descriptions are relevant to the context in which they are described.  If we are to take each mention as a completely separate instance then there would be 21 heads and 40 horns between the dragon and the mentions of the beast.

In Daniel 7, we see the beast with ten horns, presumably one head, and no crowns.  The focus is on the 10 horns and the little horn who ripped three of them out by the roots and became the big horn who waged war against the saints for 42 months.

In Revelation 13, the beast with 10 horns has crowns on the horns to indicate, like you said, that he is over the 10 kings.  He is also pictured with seven heads that he didn't have before in Daniel 7.  The seven heads come from Satan indicate that he has received Satan's power and throne.  The rest of his appearance in Revelation 13 (leopard, bear, lion) can be traced back to the other beasts in Daniel 7.  The inference is that the other evil spirit beasts of Daniel 7 have given their power and authority to this beast too.  The context of Revelation 13 is to show the interplay between the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.  Have you ever wondered why  Satan would give his power, throne, and great authority to anyone, ever?  The best I can surmise is that Satan puts this evil spirit beast in charge temporarily while he enters the false prophet for the purpose of performing the amazing signs and wonders that deceive the world.  This is supported by the fact that the false prophet "speaks like a dragon" and it wouldn't be the first time that Satan entered the son of perdition.

In Revelation 17, the mystery of the harlot and the beast who carries her is explained.  There's no need to mention crowns.  We know that the beast described here is the same beast in Revelation 13 because of this verse:

  • The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.  These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.  Revelation 17:12-13

Although the word "crowns" isn't used, this passage describes perfectly what the crowns represent, so "crowns" can be easily implied.  The reference to the beast being an 8th king is used because the United Nations has no real "king" so he is considered the defacto leader of that global government until the man of sin comes along and Satan enters him and the fireworks begin.

I do agree that Satan is pictured as having 10 horns because he is the leader of it all.  There are only 7 heads and 10 horns.  The seven heads are Satan's and represent his power, throne and great authority as demonstrated in the kingdoms you mentioned.  The ten horns belong to the beast and are subservient to him as the verse above indicates. 

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