The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Your step 1 is off because you don't understand the 1335. It is to point to some event AFTER Jesus has returned to earth - quite probably to the dedication of the Millennial temple or the official start of the Millennial reign: perhaps Jesus anointed as King. 

The only point of reference of the 1335 days is from when the the abomination of desolation is setup.   Which puts it at day 1185. 

 Then 1290 days forward from day 1185 is day 2475 - which is the day the sixth seal takes place.     Which the kings of the earth are given 45 days to assemble their armies at Armageddon and surround Jerusalem.    Then Jesus descends to earth on day 2520 to destroy them.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [to day 2475, the sixth seal day]

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. [on day 2520, Jesus descends to earth]

 

[iamlamad]

49 minutes ago, douggg said:

The only point of reference of the 1335 days is from when the the abomination of desolation is setup.   Which puts it at day 1185. 

 Then 1290 days forward from day 1185 is day 2475 - which is the day the sixth seal takes place.     Which the kings of the earth are given 45 days to assemble their armies at Armageddon and surround Jerusalem.    Then Jesus descends to earth on day 2520 to destroy them.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [to day 2475, the sixth seal day]

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. [on day 2520, Jesus descends to earth]

 

I disagree. This verse is NOT a from / to statement.  In verse 6 it says "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders." The beginning is understood to be verse 12:1 the start of the time of trouble. Verse 7 then gives the time (to the end of these wonders) as 3 1/2 years. 

Verse 8 again says, "what shall be the end of these things?" Again the beginning is understood to be verse 1: the start of this time of great trouble.

The meaning then of verse 11 is as follows:

From the beginning (verse 1) which is to say "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [The abomination being set up causes the daily sacrifices to be taken away so these two events are really at the same time: the middle of the Week.] , there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days [that is to say, to the end of these wonders].

So what Daniel did, or rather what the Angel did speaking with Daniel is add another 30 days to the already count of 3 1/2 years or 1260 days.  it does NOT put it at day 1185, it puts it 30 days PAST the 1260 day count. Make not mistake, the week ENDS at the 1260 day, but something happens AFTER that, which I suspect is the return of Christ. He does not return on day 1260. The marriage and supper take place after the second 1260 days.

The rest of your calculations are meaningless, based on error. 

The truth is, the week ends on day 1260, then 30 days later a significant event takes place: perhaps Jesus return. Then another 45 days after that, ANOTHER significant event: it could be the sheep and goat judgment or it could be the beginning of the millennial reign.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

It is complicated, because the bible does not give any indication on what day of the 70th week time that the Antichrist will commit the 2Thesslaonians2:4 act that triggers the Day of the Lord.

In 1Thessalonians5, it says

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

We can know the general time - which I gave you as being around 3 years 3 months into the 70th week.

That is not the start of the Day of the Lord.   What it is - is the Day that Jesus appears to the world, from the third heaven before the throne of God - with the intention of taking vengeance of them who martyred those in the 5th seal.   

Right before the Day of the Lord starts - the world will be saying peace and safety.   That is what it says in 1Thesslaonians5.

How is it much of the Christian world knows, but you don't?  It is not complicated! John states in black in white when THE DAY starts. The problem is, you don't believe John. The very reason THE DAY comes as a thief in the night - an unexpected time - is simply because JESUS comes as a thief in the night - first FOR His church - and then 7 plus years later WITH His church. 

Next, the bible really does tell us when the abomination will take place, but just not in so many words. Jesus told those in Judea to flee the moment they see this event, and we see this fleeing begin in 12:6. All we need do is back and and find what real time event of seals, trumpets or vials just happened before 12:6.  What do we find? We find the 7th trumpet event has just taken place.  THAT is when the man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is God. 

All this makes perfect sense, with the DAY starting at seal 6, then the WEEK starting at seal 7, and the first 3 1/2 years between seal 7 and trumpet 7.  John was not trying to make this complicated! 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

FYI, I don't think there's going to be an "I was right, you were wrong" crown.

Ha ha! Agreed!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

• And Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.  Luke 21:24b

Jerusalem is autonomous.  The times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

That's irrelevant.  People are being born every minute.  The gospel has been preached to all the nations.

If not now, it certainly will be BY ANGELS as seen in Rev. 14.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

JESUS comes as a thief in the night - first FOR His church - and then 7 plus years later WITH His church.  

In Daniel 9:27 what starts the 7 year 70th week?     Daniel 9: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Where is the "he" in Revelation at the beginning of the 7 years?

Edited August 22, 2018 by douggg

[Last Daze]

45 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Ha ha! Agreed!

I have to periodically remind myself of that too.

[Salty]

21 hours ago, douggg said:

"Here" or "there" is talking about a location, right?    Rumored to be here or there.     The warning about the false Christs (false Jesus's) is in the next verse.

To me, a false Christ is someone pretending to be Jesus.    Which I gave three well known examples.     Differently, the Antichrist does not pretend to be Jesus, but is thought to be the messiah instead of Jesus.    And the Antichrist will be against the belief that Jesus was/is the messiah.     "Anti" means to be instead of -- and/or--against.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with an idea like a rumor. Our Lord Jesus' warning there in Matt.24:23-26 reveals the coming of a pseudo-Christ ("false Christs" = Greek pseudochristos). And He revealed that pseudo-Christ will work great signs and wonders to deceive. The deceived will believe it is Messiah that has come. And Jesus Christ is The Messiah.

As for the word antichrist, in the Greek anti can also mean 'instead of'. And that is what the antichrist will be, a pseudo-Christ as our Lord Jesus showed there, and as Paul also showed in 2 Thess.2, and as John showed in Rev.13:11 forward.

NT:473
anti (an-tee'); a primary particle; opposite, i.e. instead or because of (rarely in addition to):
KJV - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

[Salty]

21 hours ago, douggg said:

The entire earth will be burned up at that time  And the heavens.  

Not the entire planet, but only the surface of the earth. Otherwise there would be no earth for the Ezekiel temple to be built and those future millennial operations, including God's River flowing out of that sanctuary.

 

[Salty]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

And for a while now I have been seeing a difference between the falling away and the time following the A of D. The time of GT beginning after the A of D is forced conversion, on pain of death. In contrast the apostasy of 2 Thess 2 is a rebellion. This was the point I was making in previous posts; that we will see a 'falling away' before the forced conversions. 

I interpret the apostasy of 2 Thess.2 as hard-linked with the appearance of that Antichrist there sitting in the temple of God in Jerusalem, exalting himself as God. For us, that means as The Christ. The Jews will no doubt proclaim him as their Messiah. Deceived Christian pastors who align with the Jews will follow suit and claim that is Jesus having returned. That state of deception I see happening when that pseudo-Christ is proclaimed by the deceived and lasting all the way to the end of the latter 1260 day period when our Lord Jesus does return. Only when the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit kills God's two witnesses will the deceived even remotely begin to think, "Messiah wouldn't do that, would He?"

This would beg the question of just what kind of idol is that future 'image of the beast'? If one truly believes that coming false one is Messiah, then they won't be thinking that 'image' idol of him is the devil.