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MadHermit

Babbling Against Tongues

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Critics of tongues on this site have frozen like Bambi in the headlights when confronted with these 5 unchallenged points:

(1) Paul's command to "pray in the Spirit" is fulfilled by striving to speak in tongues.  2 points establish this teaching:                                                                (a) Paul commands us to "pray in the Spirit" (Eph 6:18) and speaking in tongues is the only form of praying in the Spirit in the Bible (1 Cor 14:15).               (b) Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts (14:1)," clarifying this command with his desire for all of us to speak in tongues (14:5).                                (c) Paul repeatedly commands us to imitate his spirituality (1 Cor 4:16; 11:1; Phil 3:17) and makes it clear that such imitation includes a demonstration of the Spirit and of power (4:29-20; cp. 2:4-5).

(2) Point (1) is not refuted by Paul's preference that we all prophesy (14:5).  This counter-point is refuted by 2 facts:                                                                    (a) Those who disregard tongues for this reason blaspheme the Holy Spirit by implying that some of His gifts are irrelevant and not needed.   If speaking in tongues were not important, why does Paul celebrate the fact that he speaks in tongues more than everyone (14:18)?                                                                   

(b) If prophecy is the greatest spiritual gift, speaking in tongues is just as great if it is interpreted (14:5).  In that sense, both gifts are equally "great" and should therefore both be diligently sought.                                                                                                                                                                                             

(c) What critics fail to realize is this: in 1 Cor 14 Paul is addressing the specific situation in which believers are speaking in uninterpreted tongues in public worship services at which outsiders are present who are not ready for such unintelligible Spirit manifestations.  But Paul encourages speaking in tongues in private prayer sessions (1 Cor 14:28; cp. 14:4) and in other public meetings (e. g. Acts 19:1-6). 

(3) Point (1) is not refuted by the false claim that the gift of speaking in tongues is not divinely intended for everyone (12:29-30).                                              (a) Paul insists that we "can all prophesy one by one (14:31)." Yet the gift of prophesy is included in Paul's list that critics invoke to claim that these gifts are not divinely intended for everyone.  So what Paul is instead teaching is this: Look around you: not everyone actually exercises their prophetic potential, but I want all believers to do so.                                                                                                                                                                                                                (b) So when Paul encourages us all to speak in tongues, he clearly means that this gift if available to all believers.

(4) In 3 of the 4 times people receive the Holy Spirit in Acts, they demonstrate this by speaking in tongues (2:1-18; 10:44-47; 19:1-6).  In the 4th case, tongues are not mentioned, but the experience of receiving the Spirit is so dramatic that Simon the Magician offers money to learn the secret of channeling such power (8:19-20).  so it is reasonable to believe that these Samaritan converts also spoke in tongues when they received their Spirit baptism.  This well established pattern does not mean that Spirit baptism requires speaking in tongues (see 1 Cor 12:13);  but it is further evidence that the gift of tongues should be diligently sought (1 Cor 12:31: 14:1).

(5) The tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 is NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift.  That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18 citing Joel 2:28), but tongues is subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12,v 14).  The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted.  In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: "glossai") is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation.  Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as "zealots of spirits (14:12)" a phrase that means "zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7)."  Jews in Paul's day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages.

Edited by MadHermit

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1 hour ago, MadHermit said:

Critics of tongues on this site have frozen like Bambi in the headlights when confronted with these 5 unchallenged points:

 

Here is a message from Bambi.

 

1.) 1st Corinthians 14: 22

 

2.)  1st Corinthians 1: 22

 

Now, put those together and you'll begin to know a bit about "tongues".

And keep in mind that the "prayer language" that most pentecostals are worried about, is not the "gift of tongues".

So, study that as well.

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Bambi says, "Have a read of 1 Corinthians 12-14."

The Holy Spirit is the One who decided who gets what spiritual gift - not man.

 

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21 hours ago, Behold said:

Here is a message from Bambi.  1.) 1st Corinthians 14: 22   2.)  1st Corinthians 1: 22  Now, put those together and you'll begin to know a bit about "tongues".  And keep in mind that the "prayer language" that most pentecostals are worried about, is not the "gift of tongues".So, study that as well." 

You are confusing messages in tongues that need interpretation with praying in tongues.  The outbursts in tongues in Cornelius's household and at Ephesus were not signs for unbelievers, but rather indicators that the audience had received the Spirit.  

 

Edited by MadHermit

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3 hours ago, walla299 said:

Bambi says, "Have a read of 1 Corinthians 12-14."

The Holy Spirit is the One who decided who gets what spiritual gift - not man.

You overlook the fact that Paul commands us to "strive for the spiritual gifts (12:31; 14:1)."  Actively seeking these gifts is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for receiving them.  God always remains sovereign.  But that also applies to the regenerating work of the Spirit.  One does not automatically receive the Spirit by repenting and embracing the Gospel.  The Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip!  The Spirit ultimately determines when we are ready for the regenerating work of the Spirit.

nvras

 

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I guess this makes me Bambi too
219002130_mecoonanbambi.jpg.ad438b7a6c7c122407a6b5088d6676c2.jpg

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9 hours ago, MadHermit said:

You overlook the fact that Paul commands us to "strive for the spiritual gifts (12:31; 14:1)."  Actively seeking these gifts is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for receiving them.  God always remains sovereign.  But that also applies to the regenerating work of the Spirit.  One does not automatically receive the Spirit by repenting and embracing the Gospel.  The Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip!  The Spirit ultimately determines when we are ready for the regenerating work of the Spirit.

nvras

All I'm going to say is, "What Cobalt1959 said." He beat me to it, and likely said it more clearly than I would. Now for some coffee . . . 

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You'll have to talk to Fudd about that
632303237_elmerfuddshishing245.jpg.790885ecc499f423f7336952f43f18da.jpg

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Is it duck season, or wabbit season?  :cool:

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On 6/22/2018 at 7:23 PM, Behold said:

 

1.) 1st Corinthians 14: 22

...

Edited by Philadelphianlady

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