Michael37 Posted July 30, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,850 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Sojourner414 said: Slight problem: if the Rapture happens after the Trib, then there will be no saved in their mortal bodies. Can you give a Scripture to back this, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted July 30, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,850 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted July 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said: On another note: "the elect": where does that equate with "the church"? Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mat_24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mar_13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Luk_18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? Rom_8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Col_3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 2Ti_2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 2Jn_1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; 2Jn_1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,626 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said: You mean that doctrine that caused a handful of you to created a special thread so that only you could talk in it so you wouldn't be bothered by people pointing out pesky flaws with your point of view? Convenient. It's a cliche' dodge but hardly effective. It simply points out that none of you have actually "separated yourself from the world" as you claim to, otherwise you would be completely off the grid and you certainly would not be on an Internet forum debating eschatology. It's cool to have rules for other people that you don't have to obey. You miss the truth. Romans 12:2 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Be not conformed does not mean removing oneself from society. It means don't think or behave as does the world system, but think and behave as it pleases our Father. Debating on the internet for a good cause is acceptable behavior. The Net is vast and very fast and many can be reached. What's wrong with that? Of course there's a seedy side where if a person was to engage in some searches it could be construed as being conformed to the world. Or sinful. Or evil. But that isn't your purview. Behold the mote and ignore the beam. It's funny really, or sad; your judgment, it's more like derision, an attempt to demean rather than explore truth. And so what if a group of us got together to discuss certain things without distraction? How do you know we weren't discussing elusive truths to find the ultimate truth? Such as pouring over that which is not fully understood, like your 'pesky flaws'? Why don't you bring up whatever flaws you think exist? I'll address them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,626 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2018 23 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Yes. If you are still here after the rapture, you are not saved. But this creates a problem. Let's say those here after the pretrib rapture are not saved. There are a number of years where all the left behind are going to see prophecy fulfilled in angels flying through the sky, the two witnesses, a rebuilt Temple, the A of D, trumpet sound, etc. many will turn to God. Immediately the newly born again will fact the wrath of the one who just saved them. Quite the contradiction considering pretrib escapes form this circumstance pleading the blood of Christ for salvation and 'not appointed to wrath' as the reasons they will not see the 70th week. Apparently the blood of Jesus and not appointed to wrath only apply to some and not all believers in Christ. 23 hours ago, shiloh357 said: This is not an elite western thing. It is a salvation thing. Anyone who is saved no matter what part of the earth, they live in, will not suffer the tribulation. If you don't think the Lord is coming for you, then He probably isn't. Oh, Jesus is coming for us. After the beast. Maybe you could explain the above belief to the 100,000 that suffer and die every year, all over the world, for the testimony they hold in Jesus. They don't get a pretrib rapture. Why some and not others? 23 hours ago, shiloh357 said: You might be here; I won't. Well, when you see the beast rise to conquer and confirm the covenant, I'll be here. It seems that day is nearly here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,850 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Tribulation is pressure from Satan upon regenerate humanity(saints). Wrath is punishment from God upon unregenerate humanity(sinners). When the saints are caught up to be with the Lord forever the Tribulation gives way to Wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, Diaste said: But this creates a problem. Let's say those here after the pretrib rapture are not saved. There are a number of years where all the left behind are going to see prophecy fulfilled in angels flying through the sky, the two witnesses, a rebuilt Temple, the A of D, trumpet sound, etc. many will turn to God. Immediately the newly born again will fact the wrath of the one who just saved them. Quite the contradiction considering pretrib escapes form this circumstance pleading the blood of Christ for salvation and 'not appointed to wrath' as the reasons they will not see the 70th week. Apparently the blood of Jesus and not appointed to wrath only apply to some and not all believers in Christ. Oh, Jesus is coming for us. After the beast. Maybe you could explain the above belief to the 100,000 that suffer and die every year, all over the world, for the testimony they hold in Jesus. They don't get a pretrib rapture. Why some and not others? Well, when you see the beast rise to conquer and confirm the covenant, I'll be here. It seems that day is nearly here. There are consequences for sin. Those who obeyed the Gospel before the Tribulation started do not go through the Tribulation. Those who rejected Jesus prior to the Trib, but received him during the Tribulation will have to go through with it. The consequences of sin don't disappear when you get saved. They still die and go to be the with the Lord, but sin has its own consequences and God never circumvents that. A murderer who accepts Jesus on death row, doesn't get released from prison. He still suffers the consequences of what he has done. Quote Oh, Jesus is coming for us. After the beast. Maybe you could explain the above belief to the 100,000 that suffer and die every year, all over the world, for the testimony they hold in Jesus. They don't get a pretrib rapture. Why some and not others? The Bible promises that we will suffer in this life. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. (II Tim. 3:12) Quote Well, when you see the beast rise to conquer and confirm the covenant, I'll be here. It seems that day is nearly here. Yes, you will be here, as will the apostate church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,850 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Those who rejected Jesus prior to the Trib, but received him during the Tribulation will have to go through with it. Then are they waiting for a 3rd Coming of Christ...??? Awkward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Then are they waiting for a 3rd Coming of Christ...??? Awkward... No such thing as a 3rd coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,916 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,850 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2018 38 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No such thing as a 3rd coming. Correctomundo. But your Post-Trib theory apparently claims "2 phases of the 2nd Coming" From Wikipedia: Post-Tribulation Rapture Quote The pretribulational argument that there are 'two phases' to Christ's coming (a rapture and a later second advent)[29] runs into difficulties with Acts 1:11, which nearly equates Christ's ascension to heaven with his second coming. Logically, the second coming cannot have two phases if the ascension only had one. This eliminates two phases of his coming with a 7-year interval. Likewise, heaven must "receive" or contain Jesus "until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from ancient time".[30] Most scholars[31] see this "restoration of all things" as the one-thousand year reign of Christ on earth (as prophesied in the Old Testament) which begins just after the second advent. If Christ is to remain in heaven until this coming rule of his according to these verses (see also Hebrews 9:27,28), it would seem the next main prophetic event would be the second coming[32] rather than him coming 7 years prior to get the church, bring them back to heaven, and then leaving heaven for earth again as the pre-tribulational rapture position indicates.[33] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Correctomundo. But your Post-Trib theory apparently claims "2 phases of the 2nd Coming" No, because I am pre-trib, not post trib. So I don't have 2 phases to Jesus 2nd coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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