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Only the Dead in Christ Return With Him


Philadelphianlady

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I like this simple summary by the late Chuck Missler apart from the pretrib leaning which doesn't tie in with Revelation 13, but lets not be dogmatic at this stage.

Edited by Michael37
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The rapture listing above is correct

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It appears Jesus doesn't come back with any saints.  He returns with a vast army of angels as the dead in Christ have just been raised and those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord have just been removed from the earth. 1 Thess 4, " 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord..." says Paul.

These who are alive and remain to the Lord's coming are raised after the dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the clouds in the air, where Jesus is already present, with His armies.

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18 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The rapture listing above is correct

Not correct. It assumes a pretrib rapture. It's consistent with doctrine, not scripture. Therefore it is of mankind not the Spirit. This widely held pretrib rapture verse besets the doctrine from which it is derived,

1 Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

There is no secret imminent 'rapture' if 4 prophesied events occur before. The Lord descending, the loud command, the voice of the archangel, and the sound of a trumpet are all prophesied events that occur immediately prior to the gathering. A major proof of pretrib doctrine refutes the doctrine at the onset.

This is similar to Matt 24:30-31, "...the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,..." which some say is for Israel alone. If that's true then 1 Thess 4:16 is only for Israel as well.

 

Edited by Diaste
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On 7/1/2018 at 9:17 AM, Philadelphianlady said:

The bodies of the dead raise at that time and put on immortality. But the spirits of the dead in Christ return with Him. The alive do not come back with Him.

This is correct... This will happen on the Day of the LORD.. The return of the LORD Jesus Christ... Pre-tribulation rapture is simply wrong.. But it is an enticing escapist doctrine that a lot of people Want to believe is true because people naturally do not want to face persecution.. But millions of Christians have faced persecution down through the centuries and you can be assured the anti-christ and his followers on earth will persecute followers of Jesus during the end times..

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Only those who turn to the Lord during the coming tribulation period 

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28 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Only those who turn to the Lord during the coming tribulation period 

Yes. Under the total temporal tyranny of the man of sin those who consider doing commerce on his terms while on earth a greater priority than storing up treasure in heaven on God's terms, will be under strong delusion, doing whatever he requires of them. We see this throughout history on a smaller scale under every dictatorship.

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"This is correct... This will happen on the Day of the LORD.. The return of the LORD Jesus Christ... Pre-tribulation rapture is simply wrong"

 

You think it is simply wrong .... but you are going to find out that it is simply true son

[1 Corinthians 15:51 58; 1 st Thessalonians 4:13-18]

Read it, study it, and believe it 

 

 

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On 7/14/2018 at 12:03 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

The rapture listing above is correct

Ask yourself a question. When is Jesus coming, before or after the Great Tribulation? After! The scriptures you referenced, I've quoted here. They do not say that when Jesus comes seven years after the secret rapture He will return the earth with both those who sleep in Jesus AND the living that were raptured. The rapture doesn't happen until the actual second coming when the spirits Jesus brings back will be reunited with their bodies that are changed. I don't know how you can read these verses any other way???

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 5

 

1 Thessalonians 14:14 " 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Edited by Philadelphianlady
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"Ask yourself a question. When is Jesus coming, before or after the Great Tribulation?"

 

Nothing to question .... the Lord will execute the coming tribulation when He is ready

And He is here right now .... you just cannot see Him

 

 

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