Last Daze Posted July 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Online Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Marilyn C said: BTW I also need to say, as someone has brought up the New Jerusalem, that the city is described `AS` a bride, meaning it is like a bride in all its glory. That is a description. and God uses that term for Israel and later for the city. Hi Marilyn, I'll own up to being that "someone." Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. Revelation 21:9-10 Two questions about this passage: What did the angel say that he was going to show John? What did the angel show John? Since the answers are pretty obvious, maybe the verse that says "as a bride" needs to be reconsidered. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2 It doesn't say that new Jerusalem is "as a bride." It says that it has been made ready as a bride (is made ready), adorned for her husband. Any conclusion that contradicts what's plainly stated needs to be reconsidered, that is, if the goal is truth, which I assume it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 7, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,031 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,372 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Diaste said: At issue are those who receive Jesus as savior during the tribulation period. "Why are they destined to endure wrath when holy writ forbids that scenario?" It, for them, does not forbid the endurance of... in fact it foretells that they should! It is The Church that is called out Rev 4 fulfilling God's promise to His Bride... Edited July 7, 2018 by enoob57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 7, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,058 Content Per Day: 0.42 Reputation: 1,031 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2018 Marilyn C: So the `catching away', the rapture, is that wonderful time when we are joined with our Head, the High Kingpriest of a whole new order of kingpriests, the body of Christ. What a glorious hope to look forward to, what a high calling indeed is that. I must disagree with you in regard to this, @Marilyn C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 7, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,172 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 7, 2018 11 hours ago, Last Daze said: Hi Marilyn, I'll own up to being that "someone." Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. Revelation 21:9-10 Two questions about this passage: What did the angel say that he was going to show John? What did the angel show John? Since the answers are pretty obvious, maybe the verse that says "as a bride" needs to be reconsidered. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2 It doesn't say that new Jerusalem is "as a bride." It says that it has been made ready as a bride (is made ready), adorned for her husband. Any conclusion that contradicts what's plainly stated needs to be reconsidered, that is, if the goal is truth, which I assume it is. Hi Last Daze, Thank you for writing out the whole verse and clarifying that important detail, for it is God who designed and built the city - `...for he (Abraham) waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10) Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted July 8, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 1:07 PM, Butero said: Only those who are watching and waiting on the Lord and keeping their life in order will go in the rapture. What are they watching for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted July 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2018 23 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Distaste, People in this time period have the opportunity to humble themselves under God, and be in the Body of Christ that will be with the Lord, judging the world system and the fallen angels. However if they don`t humble themselves, and are under God`s wrath, then before they die they will still have an opportunity to receive God`s mercy, and be where He says they will go. It all concerns the purposes of God. Marilyn. Which has nothing to do with the question in front of us. This looks like deflection to me, a red herring. We'll all see soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted July 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2018 21 hours ago, enoob57 said: It, for them, does not forbid the endurance of... in fact it foretells that they should! It is The Church that is called out Rev 4 fulfilling God's promise to His Bride... And here is that idea of the privileged group. Some believers in Jesus get to escape wrath reliant on the scriptural truth of 'we are not appointed to wrath', but other believers in Jesus must endure wrath simply because they are not members of the 'church'. Under this idea of segregation of the body the church has special privilege based solely on when it exists. This is no different than being born into temporal royalty or wealth where the progeny operates under social norms others do not enjoy. The rules don't apply to the elite, only to those not born within a particular time/space circumstance. Again, if 'we are not appointed to wrath' applies to every believer, then no believer is to endure God's wrath; not just a select group of believers that had the good fortune to be born into privilege. Do you really take seriously the notion that some believers in Jesus endure wrath when you, as a believer in Jesus, stake your hope on the promise you will not endure wrath? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,031 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,372 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 8, 2018 51 minutes ago, Diaste said: And here is that idea of the privileged group. Some believers in Jesus get to escape wrath reliant on the scriptural truth of 'we are not appointed to wrath', but other believers in Jesus must endure wrath simply because they are not members of the 'church'. Under this idea of segregation of the body the church has special privilege based solely on when it exists. This is no different than being born into temporal royalty or wealth where the progeny operates under social norms others do not enjoy. The rules don't apply to the elite, only to those not born within a particular time/space circumstance. Again, if 'we are not appointed to wrath' applies to every believer, then no believer is to endure God's wrath; not just a select group of believers that had the good fortune to be born into privilege. Do you really take seriously the notion that some believers in Jesus endure wrath when you, as a believer in Jesus, stake your hope on the promise you will not endure wrath? You can, for now, believe what you wish to believe but when the time comes it will be as written and that is, as they say, that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted July 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2018 31 minutes ago, enoob57 said: You can, for now, believe what you wish to believe but when the time comes it will be as written and that is, as they say, that! I fully agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted July 8, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Butero said: Watching simply means believing that Jesus will return again, as the angel said in Acts chapter one. It means living a lifestyle pleasing to God at all times, knowing that we have no idea of the day or the hour of Christ's return. It is not about standing outside, staring up at the sky because we think this may be the moment the Lord will come again, or even about belief in a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation or post-tribulation rapture. Are we not to watch for the signs as given in Mark 13? We don't know the day or hour but we are supposed to know the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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