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Identifying the man of sin and the beast

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Since the man of sin is a precursor before our gathering to Christ and many of us think the end times are here or near, how can we identify the man of sin and the beast?

 

2 Thess 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

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3 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

Since the man of sin is a precursor before our gathering to Christ and many of us think the end times are here or near, how can we identify the man of sin and the beast?

 

2 Thess 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

I don't think that it's possible to identify him before this moment with any certainty. I am positive that when he is making his rise to power and such that many Christians will be suspicious, but the wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:1 right there says it all "and that man of sin be revealed." Ultimately I don't think that we can be assured that this is the "one" so to speak until he has set himself up in the temple in Jerusalem.

If you read through Matthew 24, even in a nonexpositional manner:

Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" 

The discourse starts with a question on the part of the disciples.


Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 
Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 
Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 
Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows. 

The signs mentioned above are the beginning of the sorrows, the gathering clouds on the horizon if you will.


Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 
Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 
Mat 24:11  Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 
Mat 24:12  And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 
Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 

Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 
Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 
Mat 24:17  Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 
Mat 24:18  And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 
Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 
Mat 24:20  And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 
Mat 24:21  For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 
Mat 24:22  And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. 
Mat 24:23  "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 
Mat 24:24  For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 
Mat 24:25  See, I have told you beforehand. 
Mat 24:26  "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 
Mat 24:28  For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. 

The highlighted verse is the point of no return so to speak. Everything before that will be signs worth noticing to be sure, but we cannot be assured that the end has begun until this act happens. Earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars, etc., are not exactly subjective, but are subject to human misconceptions. I personally, and this is just my own opinion, think that these things will be happening at an rate that is so far above anything on historical record by the time that the abomination arrives that that it will be impossible to ignore. The current level of such things still waxes and wanes on a historical scale. The one singular event that will be undeniable would be the abomination. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'd never venture into conjecture myself given the proper set of circumstances, but I don't think i will ever be assured in my own mind unless I see that one event occur.

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6 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 

Hi Steve_S,

What are your thoughts on the Beast of Revelation and of Daniel?   Also what are your beliefs about the Abomination of Desolation?

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On 7/6/2018 at 2:30 PM, Brother Duke said:

Since the man of sin is a precursor before our gathering to Christ and many of us think the end times are here or near, how can we identify the man of sin and the beast?

 

2 Thess 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

I think that the "revealing" of the man of sin occurs when he deceives the world through supernatural signs and wonders.  Here is a brief synopsis of how I see him being revealed:

  • the ten horns build the system of economic control that uses the mark for the purpose of establishing a new order.
  • when the time is right, the ten horns destroy the "old order" (U.N. / NYC) and implement the "new order" that they rule over 
  • the man of sin condemns their actions and usurps their authority by hijacking their economic system, painting them as unfit to rule 
  • three of the ten horns' affiliations (Russia, China, N. Africa?) decide that sending an overwhelming military force is an appropriate response to his skulduggery and move against the man of sin in the Middle East.
  • when he is surrounded, the man of sin defends himself by raining fire down from heaven and other supernatural manifestations and everyone resigns to his authority declaring "who can wage war against the beast?"
  • he restores order to the world and then sets himself up as God which is the abomination that leads to desolation.

The working of Satan through the man of sin (who speaks as a dragon) to demonstrate supernatural power in the destruction of the three horns that attack him is what I consider to be "the revealing" of the man of sin, which is quickly followed by the abomination and subsequent desolation.

The beast from the sea is a supernatural entity who comes up out of the abyss.  He provides the supernatural "support" for the man of sin.  Of the evil trio, only the man of sin is a human.  The dragon and the beast from the sea are evil spirit beings.

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42 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I think that the "revealing" of the man of sin occurs when he deceives the world through supernatural signs and wonders.  Here is a brief synopsis of how I see him being revealed:

  • the ten horns build the system of economic control that uses the mark for the purpose of establishing a new order.
  • when the time is right, the ten horns destroy the "old order" (U.N. / NYC) and implement the "new order" that they rule over 
  • the man of sin condemns their actions and usurps their authority by hijacking their economic system, painting them as unfit to rule 
  • three of the ten horns' affiliations (Russia, China, N. Africa?) decide that sending an overwhelming military force is an appropriate response to his skulduggery and move against the man of sin in the Middle East.
  • when he is surrounded, the man of sin defends himself by raining fire down from heaven and other supernatural manifestations and everyone resigns to his authority declaring "who can wage war against the beast?"
  • he restores order to the world and then sets himself up as God which is the abomination that leads to desolation.

The working of Satan through the man of sin (who speaks as a dragon) to demonstrate supernatural power in the destruction of the three horns that attack him is what I consider to be "the revealing" of the man of sin, which is quickly followed by the abomination and subsequent desolation.

The beast from the sea is a supernatural entity who comes up out of the abyss.  He provides the supernatural "support" for the man of sin.  Of the evil trio, only the man of sin is a human.  The dragon and the beast from the sea are evil spirit beings.

The little horn in Daniel 7 and the beast from the sea in Rev 13 are the same entity.

Dan 7:25 vs Rev 13:5          Blasphemies against the most high

Dan 7:21 vs Rev 13:7          War with saints

Dan 7:20 vs Rev 13:7         Rule the nations

Dan 7:25 vs Rev 13.5         Rule for time and times and dividing time or 42 months.

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1 hour ago, Brother Duke said:

The little horn in Daniel 7 and the beast from the sea in Rev 13 are the same entity.

Dan 7:25 vs Rev 13:5          Blasphemies against the most high

Dan 7:21 vs Rev 13:7          War with saints

Dan 7:20 vs Rev 13:7         Rule the nations

Dan 7:25 vs Rev 13.5         Rule for time and times and dividing time or 42 months.

I think the interplay between the members of the evil trio is such that it's virtually impossible to disentangle and compartmentalize.  The evil trio consists of:

  • And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs.  Revelation 16:13
  • And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.  Revelation 20:10

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:30 PM, Brother Duke said:

Since the man of sin is a precursor before our gathering to Christ and many of us think the end times are here or near, how can we identify the man of sin and the beast?

 

2 Thess 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

I always try to keep it simple and try not to get too technical. When I compare 2Thes2:1-9 with Daniel and Jesus I see a man and a temple. I believe that the temple will be built early in Daniel's 70th week and I see the "man of sin" going into the holy of holies and declaring himself to be God. These verses seem to compliment each other very well. Nothing in past history fulfills these verses completely, so I think they are yet future, not only to Daniel, Jesus, and Paul, but to us as well. No theory is without its own problems, but I'm happy with this one.

Mark 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

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3 hours ago, JoeChan82 said:

I believe that the temple will be built early in Daniel's 70th week and I see the "man of sin" going into the holy of holies and declaring himself to be God. These verses seem to compliment each other very well. Nothing in past history fulfills these verses completely, so I think they are yet future, not only to Daniel, Jesus, and Paul, but to us as well. No theory is without its own problems, but I'm happy with this one.

 

Not sure the physical temple needs to be there since man is a temple.  Also I am not sure about a full week.  Revelation only speaks of 1/2 a week and that is how long the man of sin has to rule.

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On 7/8/2018 at 8:31 AM, Brother Duke said:

The little horn in Daniel 7 and the beast from the sea in Rev 13 are the same entity.

Dan 7:25 vs Rev 13:5          Blasphemies against the most high

Dan 7:21 vs Rev 13:7          War with saints

Dan 7:20 vs Rev 13:7         Rule the nations

Dan 7:25 vs Rev 13.5         Rule for time and times and dividing time or 42 months.

Very good summary, but missing one very key point.

Rev. 13:5 And he [THE BEAST] was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he [THE MOUTH] was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

Ex. 4:16 “So he [Aaron] shall be your [Moses'] spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God."

The Mouth of the Beast is NOT the Beast: it is his spokesman. The spokesman (a man) dies after the 1260 days. The Beast (a fallen angelic spirit that is currently in the Abyss, but not for long) does not.

 

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On 7/6/2018 at 1:30 PM, Brother Duke said:

Since the man of sin is a precursor before our gathering to Christ and many of us think the end times are here or near, how can we identify the man of sin and the beast?

This is taken from another thread, but provides the answer here also:

On 6/16/2018 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. ...

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. ... He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms.

At lot of people just skip over the implications of the phrase in red. The "latter" return of course must refer to the King of the North's invasion of Egypt in the End Times (11:42), since Antiochus only invaded Egypt twice.

As to the latter King of the North being the"Antichrist/Beast," here I must disagree. The spiritual descendant of Antiochus IV will be the Son of Perdition of 2 Thes. 2. He will defile the Holy Place (2 Thes. 2:4 = Matt. 24:15), which will occur sometime after he "shall plant the tents of his pavilion between (the) seas at the glorious holy mountain," Dan. 11:45. This will bring on the "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation" (12:1), that is, the Great Tribulation, just as Jesus told us in Matthew 24 -- 

Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” ... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."

The Son of Perdition meets his demise soon afterward, when the Lord appears and the Rapture takes place --

24:29 "...after the tribulation of those days [when] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, [and] the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 ... and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 ... and [He] will gather together His elect..."

2 Thes 2:8 ... the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the spirit of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The Beast only arises from the Abyss and the sea AFTER these things take place; the elect of the Church by then having been removed.

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