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Brother Duke

Identifying the man of sin and the beast

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Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2018 at 11:29 AM, WilliamL said:

This is taken from another thread, but provides the answer here also:

At lot of people just skip over the implications of the phrase in red. The "latter" return of course must refer to the King of the North's invasion of Egypt in the End Times (11:42), since Antiochus only invaded Egypt twice.

As to the latter King of the North being the"Antichrist/Beast," here I must disagree. The spiritual descendant of Antiochus IV will be the Son of Perdition of 2 Thes. 2. He will defile the Holy Place (2 Thes. 2:4 = Matt. 24:15), which will occur sometime after he "shall plant the tents of his pavilion between (the) seas at the glorious holy mountain," Dan. 11:45. This will bring on the "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation" (12:1), that is, the Great Tribulation, just as Jesus told us in Matthew 24 -- 

Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” ... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."

The Son of Perdition meets his demise soon afterward, when the Lord appears and the Rapture takes place --

24:29 "...after the tribulation of those days [when] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, [and] the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 ... and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 ... and [He] will gather together His elect..."

2 Thes 2:8 ... the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the spirit of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The Beast only arises from the Abyss and the sea AFTER these things take place; the elect of the Church by then having been removed.

2 Thess 2:8 makes the point that "the brightness of [Jesus'] his coming" will destroy the man of sin.   The brightness of his coming/ parousia IS the rapture,  which takes place [near] 3.5 years before the 2nd advent.   John makes the point that when Jesus comes at the time of Armageddon,  that BOTH the beast and the false prophet are cast into the ladle of fire.   This shows that neither one were destroyed at any time prior,  which includes the rapture.   So what does Paul mean when he says that the rapture will destroy the man of sin, if it is not simultaneous with his coming?   It is the point about his brightness that will destroy him.   The revelation of the glory of the Father,  will be what manifests the deeds of the man of sin as unmistakably evil and wicked.   The brightness of his coming will manifest,  it will reveal,  the full glory of God.   But until then: 

*[[1Ti 3:16]] KJV* And without controversy great is the MYSTERY OF GODLINESS: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Until the brightness of his coming in the rapture takes place,  the world,  in totu, does not know the righteousness of God, that sits currently at the FATHERS right hand.   The manifestation of that glory will be the undoing of the kingdom of darkness.   All of those that love the light will come to the light when faced with the sword of denial and darkness. 

*[[1Co 4:5]] KJV* Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


The PuP 

Edited by Da Puppers
Added scripture.
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Posted (edited)
On 7/6/2018 at 1:30 PM, Brother Duke said:

Since the man of sin is a precursor before our gathering to Christ and many of us think the end times are here or near, how can we identify the man of sin and the beast?


2 Thess 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

Brother Duke,

I think it's a simple matter to identify the beast well before the A of D. He'll be the one who is the eighth and of the 7, with the deadly head wound that got healed. The A of D is not the identifier of the beast, rather it's the revealing of the true nature of the beast. I hate to say this because Matt 24 is for everyone but the A of D warning is for those in Judea as specified by Jesus.

"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." Why? Because the wrath of the dragon is going to begin in Israel directed against the Jews, first. But again: Why? Isn't the revealing for everyone, not just Jews? Sure, but the Jews made a deal with the devil previous to this revealing when, "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" happened here:

"Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"

This is an end of the age passage about the beast and the 2nd advent from Isaiah 28. The Jews know what they have done but are willingly blind to it because they believed the benefits outweighed the risk. Of course it will not stand as Isaiah goes on to explain.

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth."

This 'overwhelming scourge' is the beast and the exceeding difficult trials upon the earth, beginning in Jerusalem. This is why Jesus spoke of the A of D coupled with the warning to those in Judea. It seems the inhabitants of Judea needed a special warning specifically for them as they will not allow themselves to see the beast with complete clarity, even though we who are watching can and will identify the beast from the start.

The beast isn't going to be part of any world governing body. He will not be a slick orator, perfectly coiffed, dressed to the nines with genius level political savvy; he will not come to power through military might or popular vote, he will rise to power through the influence of the dragon by the healing of the mortal wound, to wit;

"The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” 

If the beast rises to power through a world governing organization then why not say this in Rev 13? Or somewhere else in Rev? Or scripture? It's not going to happen that way. The beast receives power and authority directly from the dragon and the world is in awe of the beast because of the deadly head wound that was healed, not because he is Sec Gen of the UN.

I think this is a hard thing for many people to grasp. It's been so long the memories have faded into the deepest blackness, but there was a time when real power interacted in the realms of men, that time is coming again. Gods will walk the earth again and most will worship this power. 

"The fatal wound had been healed. The whole world followed the beast." Simple and clear identifier, well before the A of D. Why do they ask, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”  From the context there are three reasons: he was raised from the dead, and he has real power and authority. The world also worships the dragon. Can we see the dragon? Do we witness this being in physical form? I think so.

Some speculation:

How would we know the beast rises from the dead? I have heard reports of evangelists raising people from the dead. I don't disbelieve this but it can't be reliably verified. It's a real issue then to get the entire world to believe the beast was actually raised from the dead, or a deadly head wound healed. It's plausible the beast should be well known before this deadly wound occurs. What if this character is globally infamous? He commits some terrifying, brutal act that shocks the world and becomes a household name through social media. The act goes viral and everyone is disgusted and offended. In an evil parallel to the trial, conviction and execution of Jesus this man is caught and put on trial before the whole planet. Not a stretch if the depth of his infamy is truly shocking, we love to dwell in ambivalence.

We then witness the execution gone viral and some days later we witness the dead man walking, again gone viral. 

So we will know well before the A of D.

Here's an interesting quote by Graeme Wood in The New Republic:

"the Bahraini cleric Turki al-Bin’ali, cites a saying attributed to Muhammad that predicts a total of twelve caliphs before the end of the world. Bin’ali considers only seven of the caliphs of history legitimate. That makes Baghdadi the eighth out of twelve..."  


If this guy is the 8th of 12, then he is also "the eighth and is of the seven". Ever heard anyone else described this way? Baghdadi has the same tribal lineage as the first seven, and he is just as bloodthirsty as the first iteration of Islam when they demanded conversion on pain of death. This is really the truth behind the legs of iron and the feet of iron and clay from the statue in Dan 2, Islam.

Bin'ali is now dead, killed in a coalition attack by a smart bomb. But Baghdadi is not dead yet. On the run, heard he was wounded. The Iraqi army wants him captured and is hot on his trail.

I'll be keeping close watch as always.


Edited by Diaste

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