New Age Anointing-Bill Johnson

[existential mabel]

i will let the video speak for itself-unbelievable and sinister ...

 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by existential mabel

[Willie T]

I know nothing, PERSONALLY, of this Bill Johnson or his church, but I would like to ask a related question.  What was the purpose of the ancients of our faith, after whom we pattern much of our religious practices, always digging up the bones of revered dead people and taking those bones with them whenever they moved... and was that some kind of bad thing that we should now condemn?

Edited July 17, 2018 by Willie T

[existential mabel]

Ah that maybe so but its not a biblical principle. Joseph Requested to have his bones taken out of Egypt.

1)Genesis Chapter 25

The Death and Burial of Abraham

7-8Abraham died at the ripe old age of 175. 9His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in Machpelah Cave, in the field east of Mamre that had belonged to Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite.

 

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2)Genesis chapter 35

The Death of Isaac

²⁷Jacob went to his father Isaac at Mamre, near Hebron, where Abraham and Isaac had lived. ²⁸Isaac lived to be 180 years old

 

²⁹and died at a ripe old age; and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

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3)Genesis Chapter 49

The Death and Burial of Jacob

²⁹Then Jacob commanded his sons, “Now that I am going to join my people in death, bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, ³⁰ at Machpelah, east of Mamre, in the land of Canaan. Abraham bought this cave and field from Ephron for a burial ground. ³¹ That is where they buried Abraham and his wife Sarah; that is where they buried Isaac and his wife Rebecca; and that is where I buried Leah. ³²The field and the cave in it were bought from the Hittites. Bury me there.” ³³ When Jacob had finished giving instructions to his sons, he lay down again and died.

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4)Genesis Chapter 50

The Death of Joseph

²²Joseph continued to live in Egypt with his father's family; he was 110 years old when he died. ²³He lived to see Ephraim's children and grandchildren. He also lived to receive the children of Machir son of Manasseh into the family. ²⁴He said to his brothers, “I am about to die, but God will certainly take care of you and lead you out of this land to the land he solemnly promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” ²⁵ Then Joseph asked his people to make a vow. “Promise me,” he said, “that when God leads you to that land, you will take my body with you.” ²⁶So Joseph died in Egypt at the age of 110. They embalmed his body and put it in a coffin.

I can see no mention of the term grave sucking, necromancy 

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5) 1 Samuel CHAPTER 28

Saul Consults a Medium

15Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me? Why did you make me come back?”Saul answered, “I am in great trouble! The Philistines are at war with me, and God has abandoned me. He doesn't answer me any more, either by prophets or by dreams. And so I have called you, for you to tell me what I must do.”

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6)Leviticus chapter 20

Penalties for Disobedience

 

²⁷“Any man or woman who consults the spirits of the dead shall be stoned to death; any person who does this is responsible for his own death.”

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by existential mabel

[Willie T]

33 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Joseph asked for his bones to be taken to the Promised Land when the Israelites were freed from Egypt.  He wished to be buried in the land God had promised the Israelites.  That had nothing to do with people acquiring a mantle or an anointing.  Can't build doctrine around that.

Elisha asked Elijah for a double portion of his "spirit."  In this instance a living prophet asked another living prophet for his spiritual gifting.  Can't build a doctrine around that either.

These people are practicing necromancy.  Necromancy is strictly forbidden by God and Saul got himself in big trouble when he resorted to it.  It could be that these people actually are receiving some kind of spirit when they do this because they are opening themselves up to any kind of spirit that wishes to influence them.  But it is not the Holy Spirit and it is not of God.  Not every evil spirit makes people want to murder, or foam at the mouth.  Some of them are content to simply mislead a person because in cases like this, they are still leading the person away from God and leading others away from God as well through them.  Satan leading people away from God doesn't usually look evil on the surface.  It looks harmless.  It looks fun.  It looks pleasing, especially to a wide swath of society that view ordinary church as stuffy, boring, old fashioned and cliche.  And too restrictive.   It might be.  But the way these people are doing it goes directly against what God teaches in several areas.  It's dangerous.    

Sorry, my bad.  I thought Jacob's bones got moved too, and I thought I recalled something about David burying Saul's bones.  It just seemed the old ones had a pretty big hang-up on the importance of dead bones.  I even thought God, Himself, secretly buried Moses so the people wouldn't worship the place where his bones were.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Willie T

[Willie T]

Wouldn't 2 Kings 13:20-21 be considered necromancy?  Or the widow's son?  Or the kid who fell out of the window?  If someone was dead, weren't the Jews forbidden to do much more than wrap them up and bury them?

I'm just trying to see where people get some of these things from Scripture.

It seems they get attacked as though people think they just dreamed this stuff up out of thin air.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Willie T

[Willie T]

38 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

   Attacked is the wrong word to use.  Pointing out a doctrine that is false is not an attack.  We are commanded to do so.  We are commanded to be watchmen.  We are commanded to protect people against wolves in sheep's clothing.  Every single thing that the New Apostolic Reformation is based on is false.  Worst of all, it elevates mankind above Jesus.

  When it comes to the concept of supposedly being able to receiving a dead person' anointing by hanging out at their grave, they are dreaming stuff up out of thin air.  The dead person who was hastily thrown into the grave of Elisha was not practicing necromancy because he was already dead.  He couldn't ask anyone anything.  There was no communication at all.  For whatever reason, this person came back to life, but the passages do not go on and tell us this is supposed to be something we go around practicing regularly.  The situation with Elisha and the widow's son, likewise has no parallels with grave-soaking.  The son was dead and Elisha prayed to God to bring him back to life.  He did not attempt to communicate with the dead son.  The death and bringing back to life by God through Paul of Eutychus also has no parallel with what these people practice.  These are not biblical examples of what these folks at Bethel Church are doing.  They are attempting to communicate with the dead in the hopes of receiving something special from them.  To put this into stark relief, they are attempting to receive a spiritual gift from a dead person by trying to communicate with the dead person, something that God strictly prohibits.  They are doing something no Christian is supposed to be doing.

Well, Kathryn Kuhlman was my aunt on my father's side, and I can tell you for a fact that they really don't want to communicate with her. 

 

[Willie T]

20 minutes ago, Davida said:

They have no desire to communicate with Kuhlman, they want to receive her so called "anointing" by laying upon her grave.

I was simply going by the dictionary definition of the word everyone has been using to describe their actions, "necromancy."

[Willie T]

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Biblically, necromancy includes both attempting to communicate with the dead and other forms of socery.  These people are engaging in both.  Benny Hinn has been doing this at Kuhlman's grave for years.

Of course it does.....  and whatever else we don't agree with or can't understand whenever we run across it.

[Willie T]

37 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

So, in other words, you have no problem with people engaging in something God forbids, re-labeling it as something else, and then telling people how great and "spiritual" it is?  Since Kathyrn Kuhlman was your aunt, perhaps you could show us documentation for exactly how many "healings" attested to her where proven authentic?

I understand what Bill Johnson and his ilk do quite well.  It's common name in everyday terms is a con job.  Perhaps since you seem to have a personal bias towards anything any charismatic claims to be doing is actually authentic, perhaps you could enlighten all of us here in this thread as to how something expressly forbidden by God suddenly becomes acceptable because a practitioner of it claims to be a Prophet, and by extension, he now has the ability to change what God says?  Use caution in your reply because if you validate any of what this "church" does, you are saying that God is schizophrenic.

Do you, or any other good Christians you know,  go to grave sites to "spend some time" with their dead loved ones?  I know many people who actually say they speak out loud there, as though those dead one could hear them.  Are we to label them also?  To me, that is strange since I don't even visit my mother's grave.  To me, there is nothing there but dirt.

Sure, these California people are weird in my eyes, but I just can't label them as Necromants.  Labeling is something I have seen that many of us rush to do so that we can dismiss them as a group. (Notice how, above, you just now lumped all "Charismatics" together as a group you have deemed appropriate to dismiss.)

Edited July 18, 2018 by Willie T

[Christine]

Hello @Willie T,

My sister lost a daughter aged 32 to cancer, and she tells me that even though she knows that her daughter cannot hear her, she still talks to her, for it gives her comfort.  God knows my sisters heart, he knows that she is in no illusion as to the true state of the dead, that it is in resurrection that she will see her, when mortality will have put on immortality, and corruption put on incorruption.  He does not judge that grieving heart and so who are we to do so.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Christine