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New Age Anointing-Bill Johnson


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Hello @Willie T,

It is inevitable when differences in doctrinal belief is voiced that labeling will take place: and it is not a bad thing in some ways for it helps to understand where those voicing them are coming from, but when that label results in scornful remarks and distain, in ostracism, unkindness and lack of love, then it grieves the Holy Spirit, and dishonours the one who has told us to love one another.

We must stand upon the truth that we believe, yes, but respectfully, and with love: showing by prayerful reference to the Scriptures why we believe what we do, with patience. Not with mockery and scorn.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

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1 minute ago, Davida said:

Hopefully you understand the difference between a mother grieving and what this thread is about - the demonic doctrine that Bill Johnson & his wife have taught by  Bethel Church members lying on dead Christian leaders graves for the purpose of drawing their perceived "anointing" or  spiritual power from these grave sites. 

Hello @Davida,

Forgive me, I have not read the thread through, simply responded to Willie T.  I do not have any knowledge of Johnson & his wife, or of the Bethel Church.

Thank you for your correction.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

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11 minutes ago, Christine said:

Hello Willie T,

My sister lost a daughter aged 32 to cancer, and she tells me that even though she knows that her daughter cannot hear her, she still talks to her, for it gives her comfort.  God knows my sisters heart, he knows that she is in no illusion as to the true state of the dead, that it is in resurrection that she will see her, when mortality will have put on immortality, and corruption put on incorruption.  He does not judge that grieving heart and so who are we to do so.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

But, so many of us presume to decide for God that it is us, not Him, who is to judge what these Bethel people are doing......So much so that we start losing it and calling them "Satan followers", and worse.  I am really not speaking in this thread so much about them, as I am talking about the disappointing behavior we have stooped to in the way we judge them.  And, "Yes" it is judging..... something God says is not ours to do.  Judge for yourself, and refrain if you feel that is the right way to go, but don't try to hide prejudices behind some claim of a Biblical command to go around "exposing" people by name-calling.

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7 minutes ago, Davida said:

Hi Chris, Just want you to be informed, so please go to the first post in this thread and watch the short video posted to be informed of what is being practiced in Bethel church. This false teaching poses a danger to Christians and they need to be informed so they can have spiritual discernment to avoid these unbiblical practices. 

Hello @Davida,

I have done as you asked, and watched the video. I now understand why you feel that Christians need to be informed about this, and warned of the dangers of becoming embroiled in such a movement.  I was warned about such a movement locally, and was horrified when I sought information about this online.  Their words and actions are their own judge and jury.

This is deception of the worst kind.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

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Guest shiloh357
5 hours ago, Willie T said:

Do you, or any other good Christians you know,  go to grave sites to "spend some time" with their dead loved ones?  I know many people who actually say they speak out loud there, as though those dead one could hear them.  Are we to label them also?  To me, that is strange since I don't even visit my mother's grave.  To me, there is nothing there but dirt.

Sure, these California people are weird in my eyes, but I just can't label them as Necromants.  Labeling is something I have seen that many of us rush to do so that we can dismiss them as a group. (Notice how, above, you just now lumped all "Charismatics" together as a group you have deemed appropriate to dismiss.)

People spending time at the grave of a loved one to grieve and pay respects is not the same thing as this grave soaking heresy.  It would be like trying to justify zombies coming to life based on Jesus raising people from the dead.   There is simply no comparison.  It's completely absurd.

Anointings  don't work like this.  They are something only distributed sovereignly by God as He wills and there is NO biblical justification for this kind of occultic behavior.   Necromancy is an appropriate term.

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1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Name calling may border on infantile, but exposing heresy and warning others (especially young Christians in the faith) is what we are supposed to do. I see you mostly defend aberrant groups, is that your ministry?

"Defending aberrant groups" is little more than holding the mirror the Bible spoke of up to Christians to let them see what they are actually doing, and often, in their misdirected zeal, don't even realize.

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2 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I notice that the one thing you don't do is actually deal with what these people are doing.  Instead, you attempt to discredit the people that are pointing out their errors.  You call it "attacking."  You call it "labeling."  You call it "judging."  In not one single case, in this thread, were those terms accurate.  They were used to try and detract from the actual issue.  Why would you continue to resort to such feints instead of explaining to us, biblically why what these people are doing is acceptable?  If there is no problem with it, surely you should be able to explain to us why.  We are not "attacking" someone by pointing out the error of their actions.  We are not "labeling" people by placing a name on what they do.  We are not "judging" them by pointing out, biblically that what they do is wrong.  If you really believe that these terms are accurate then if you look out your window later on tonight and find that your car has been stolen, don't say that the person stealing it was wrong, don't call the person who stole it a thief, and don't call the police to report it.  If you do so, you are breaking your own rules.

Your other methodology, which you have resorted to at least 4 times now in this thread, is to bring up something else and attempt to draw a parallel to the behavior we are talking about.  In not 1 of those 4 times, were there any parallels at all.  You have no problem with some badly confused charismatics going to the grave of someone they never knew in life and trying to acquire some "anointing," but you try and make that equivalent to someone visiting the grave of a loved one simple to pay their respects.  The two behaviors are not even close to being comparable, and in this particular case, borders on the absurd.  Not to mention it actually openly insults anyone who goes to a cemetery to pay their respects to their deceased loved ones.  They are not going there to communicate with them, in the way you imply, and they certainly do not believe they are going to get some special gift from them.  The spiritual gifts bestowed by God do not work that way and most grounded Christians know that.

Charismatics label themselves with their own behavior which always ends up excessive and aberrant.  The problem is not me pointing out that their behavior is wrong, the actual problem is that you continually defend them.  You don't have a problem with it, and you sure don't want people pointing out their error.  Why is that?  Are you a Charismatic?  Are you a member of one of these churches?  

Deuteronomy 18:9-12  9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there.  10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,  11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.  12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
 

Perhaps you could just explain to us why it is acceptable to violate the above portion of scripture.  If there is no problem with this behavior, surely you should be able to explain to us why, instead of making the people pointing out the aberrant behavior the problem.  I asked you to do this in my last post and I can't help but notice that you failed to do so.  Why is that?

And yet, God, Himself, secretly buried Moses where no one knew, specifically so that people would not turn the place of his interment into a necromantic site by going there to "pay their respects" to someone dead and gone.  We have no need (nor Biblical precedent) to go stand over the ground someone was placed in to "Honor" them than those Bethel people have for whatever it is they think they are doing.  Can our dead not be "honored" in a similar manner that we use to honor God?  Sure the Bethel people are strange and misguided, but what they do is not far removed from what we, ourselves, do.  Almost all Christians I have hear talk about their ritual grave visits, say it was good to go there and be with their loved ones.  We almost curse the Bethel kids, but would we breathe a word about our friends doing their thing?  I have even seen people stroking the stones in a graveyard.

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Guest shiloh357
4 minutes ago, Willie T said:

And yet, God, Himself, secretly buried Moses where no one knew, specifically so that people would not turn the place of his interment into a necromantic site by going there to "pay their respects" to someone dead and gone.  We have no need (nor Biblical precedent) to go stand over the ground someone was placed in to "Honor" them than those Bethel people have for whatever it is they think they are doing. 

Paying respects is not necromancy.  Trying to contact in any manner those on the other side of the grave expecting some kind of response IS necromancy. And yes, we have biblical examples of people paying respect to those who have passed on.  

 

Quote

Can our dead not be "honored" in a similar manner that we use to honor God?  Sure the Bethel people are strange and misguided, but what they do is not far removed from what we, ourselves, do. 

Wrong.  Grave soaking is occultic and there is no hint of similarity to paying a visit to the grave of a loved and placing flowers there on Memorial Day and what the people at Bethel are doing.

 

Quote

Almost all Christians I have hear talk about their ritual grave visits, say it was good to go there and be with their loved ones.  We almost curse the Bethel kids, but would we breathe a word about our friends doing their thing?  I have even seen people stroking the stones in a graveyard.

Again, no similarity at all.

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I have heard Christians who were wrestling with something say that after they went to the graveyard and asked some dead relative about it, that they received enlightenment as to what they needed to do.  What would you call that?  (and I sure hope none of you say you have never heard the same thing)

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Almost all our congregations have someone who says their dead relative (especially if it was a child who died)  is now an angel watching over them.  Just ask around a little.  It is quite prevalent.

All I am saying is that we "pots" have no business calling the Bethel "kettles", black.... especially with some of the vile, despicable terms I have read that we write about them.

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