The timing of the 6th seal

[Last Daze]

29 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

A global persecution of the gleanings, not the main harvest. The main harvest is not appointed to God's wrath.

Another version among many.  The details will work themselves out.  Ours is to be ready.

[ARGOSY]

18 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Tribulation for the past 2000 yr is not the Great Tribulation inside the 70th week.

Sure there will be a great tribulation, and much wrath during those last 3.5 years. Satan is a source of that wrath too, according to Rev 12, for he knows his time is short. So it is understandable why you believe we will escape the entire 3.5 years.

To see a pre-trib rapture, requires two comings, two resurrections, two days of wrath on unbelievers , two great movements of mountains and islands, two earthquakes, two final wars.  I see no need to split all of these into two, when one always fits so well. 

The greatest wrath of all occurs on the day of the Lord, this is the wrath we will not experience. So we shall just have to disagree here, our view on when the rapture occurs influences our view on which wrath we escape.

 

[Last Daze]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think also, along with no where to run - is the scope: this may well be a world wide tribulation.

• For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  Matthew 24:21
• And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time.  Daniel 12:1b

Yes, it will be.  The time of great distress or tribulation will affect both believers and unbelievers albeit in different ways.

[Heb 13:8]

5 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Sure there will be a great tribulation, and much wrath during those last 3.5 years. Satan is a source of that wrath too, according to Rev 12, for he knows his time is short. So it is understandable why you believe we will escape the entire 3.5 years.

To see a pre-trib rapture, requires two comings, two resurrections, two days of wrath on unbelievers , two great movements of mountains and islands, two earthquakes, two final wars.  I see no need to split all of these into two, when one always fits so well. 

The greatest wrath of all occurs on the day of the Lord, this is the wrath we will not experience. So we shall just have to disagree here, our view on when the rapture occurs influences our view on which wrath we escape.

Rapture comes like a thief to the world. Not much of a thief if we can count the days in Daniel.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rapture comes like a thief to the world. Not much of a thief if we can count the days in Daniel.

Those who will be overtaken by that day are clueless.  They don't read Daniel.

[Heb 13:8]

10 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Those who will be overtaken by that day are clueless.  They don't read Daniel.

Rev 12:5 child is describing the body of Christ being raptured prior to Satan falling to earth.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Heb 13:8

[Steve Conley]

On 10/19/2018 at 1:05 AM, ARGOSY said:

Trumpet: Greek word: salpigx

It is the SAME word used in Matthew 24 as in 1 Corinthians 15

So 1 Corinthians 15 describes the rapture during:

The coming of Christ

The resurrection

The last trumpet

 

1 Thessalonians 4/5 describes the rapture during:

The coming of Christ

The day of the Lord

A day of destruction/wrath

The thief in the night

 

These are all second coming concepts. At the end of this age. But pretribs complicate simple wording, to create TWO comings, TWO gatherings, TWO trumpets

The antichrist is coming soon, pretribs please don't be too discouraged when you suddenly find yourself in the great tribulation. Even if not prepared for it, it is only 3.5 years long.

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Argosy, you are absolutely correct that there is only one future coming (parousia) of Christ. At the same time, it is also true that those who are Christ's will be kept from (out of) the hour of temptation that will come upon all the earth to try the earth-dwellers (Rev 3:10). We are not appointed unto God's wrath when it is poured out in the day of the Lord (1Thes 5:9). In the middle of the week, the man of sin is revealed in the rebuilt temple, demanding to be worshipped as God (2Thes 2:3-4). From that point, he has 42 months that he will continue before he will be cast alive into a lake of fire (Rev 13:5, 19:20). However, the unprecedented persecution that begins when he is revealed, is said by Christ, to be cut short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). The period of our persecution will be at least 6 months less than the Beast's 42 months. The fifth trumpet judgement alone lasts 5 months. There has to be enough time in the 42 months of the Beast for the trumpet and vial judgements to fall before he is cast into the fire. This time is what is left of the 42 months after the great tribulation is cut short by Christ's return. So, the period of unprecedented persecution of the elect (the church) will be significantly less than 3.5 years. Exactly how much less we do not know.

Yet there will be upon the earth a remnant of Israel that shall be hidden and fed in the wilderness for 1260 days, the full period that the Beast continues.

Glory to Jesus Christ

 

[ARGOSY]

1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Argosy, you are absolutely correct that there is only one future coming (parousia) of Christ. At the same time, it is also true that those who are Christ's will be kept from (out of) the hour of temptation that will come upon all the earth to try the earth-dwellers (Rev 3:10). We are not appointed unto God's wrath when it is poured out in the day of the Lord (1Thes 5:9). In the middle of the week, the man of sin is revealed in the rebuilt temple, demanding to be worshipped as God (2Thes 2:3-4). From that point, he has 42 months that he will continue before he will be cast alive into a lake of fire (Rev 13:5, 19:20). However, the unprecedented persecution that begins when he is revealed, is said by Christ, to be cut short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). The period of our persecution will be at least 6 months less than the Beast's 42 months. The fifth trumpet judgement alone lasts 5 months. There has to be enough time in the 42 months of the Beast for the trumpet and vial judgements to fall before he is cast into the fire. This time is what is left of the 42 months after the great tribulation is cut short by Christ's return. So, the period of unprecedented persecution of the elect (the church) will be significantly less than 3.5 years. Exactly how much less we do not know.

Yet there will be upon the earth a remnant of Israel that shall be hidden and fed in the wilderness for 1260 days, the full period that the Beast continues.

Glory to Jesus Christ

 

There is a lot of logic in your post. But you put too much emphasis on Matt 24:22   I regard it as impossible that God would give us such precise timeframes only to then contradict this with a period being "cut short".     If you look into the Greek, "kept short" fits pretty well, kept short for 3.5 years.

When Jesus lifts up the church, on that same day there is wrath. You are correct that we avoid the wrath, we are raptured to the feast in heaven, and do not experience the wrath of the winepress, earthquake, sulfur , hailstones, stars falling, mountains moving, islands moving  etc etc  

[ARGOSY]

10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 12:5 child is describing the body of Christ being raptured prior to Satan falling to earth.

You need better proof verses, that particular one is very symbolic and open to interpretation and therefore does not strengthen your position.

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

You need better proof verses, that particular one is very symbolic and open to interpretation and therefore does not strengthen your position.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/