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The timing of the 6th seal


Heb 13:8

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2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Luk 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

" 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

In reality it's like this.

" 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to flee away from all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Transliteration: ekpheugó
Short Definition: I flee out, away, I escape
Definition: I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.

This has to do with a personal action of being away from something. This is not an harpazo where someone is seized and taken away.

"Hope you are worthy to avoid the calamities that are coming", not, " Hope you are worthy to be seized and taken from earth"

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15 minutes ago, Diaste said:

" 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

In reality it's like this.

" 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to flee away from all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Transliteration: ekpheugó
Short Definition: I flee out, away, I escape
Definition: I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.

This has to do with a personal action of being away from something. This is not an harpazo where someone is seized and taken away.

"Hope you are worthy to avoid the calamities that are coming", not, " Hope you are worthy to be seized and taken from earth"

Exactly that.

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1 hour ago, Diaste said:

It's not that there isn't an harpazo, it's the timing. A pretrib moment just does not exist for the gathering of the saints. Especially since the only gathering of the saints we see in all of scripture is always associated with the coming of the Lord, the cosmic signs, the last trump, Jerusalem surrounded by armies, and after apostasy and the revealing of the beast, etc. This shows clear timing of the gathering at very near the end and only after GT, as Jesus said in Matt 24.

No, the timing is in Rev 12:5, and Matt 24:31 is not a harpazo, it's a episunagó which represents the gleanings (trib saints). The main harvest are not the gleanings. These are two different groups of people separated by 7 years.

Quote

Yes, the child was caught up. That's not the church, that's Jesus. Can't use that one as it's not the gathering of the saints.

This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.

The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). 

Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne.

God bless.

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1 hour ago, Diaste said:

" 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

In reality it's like this.

" 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to flee away from all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Transliteration: ekpheugó
Short Definition: I flee out, away, I escape
Definition: I flee out, away, escape; with an acc: I escape something.

This has to do with a personal action of being away from something. This is not an harpazo where someone is seized and taken away.

"Hope you are worthy to avoid the calamities that are coming", not, " Hope you are worthy to be seized and taken from earth"

Diaste, Jesus comes like a thief to the world, so how does He come like a thief when nonbelievers can simply countdown to His second coming (1260, 1290, 1335 days)? or even 1260 days from the AofD? Isn't being obtained by robbery the same as coming like a thief? ?

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

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satan comes at 666,Christ returns at 777

The below explains it well

http://mark13records.com/

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

The rapture marks  the end of the time of the Gentiles and the beginning of the last week of Daniel.

Or maybe the time of the Gentiles is at the end of the 70th week,

Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

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Anyone notice the First War of Gog Magog via Russia and its Muslim Allies, Ethiopia & Sudan = Cush, Persia = Iran,  Put = Libya and Turkey. So Turkey, Iran, maybe Iraq also, Sudan, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia.......Thus OUTER Ring is Destroyed but why is the INNER Ring not mentioned ? 

Because that would be the Psalm 83 War, the nations with a Common Border are defeated at a DIFFERENT TIME !! 

Psalm 83 War of Extermination include Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Gaza and they all have a Common Border. Zechariah 12:6

Zechariah 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

You see the above? The Rapture happens, then the Psalm 83 War, the time of the Gentiles is over, its a time of over 2000 years that is broken, God gives the land back to Israel. Of course the Anti-Christ then retakes it for 42 Months, but the Gentiles here will rule for only 42 months, which tells us Israel had the land back in full for a brief time. Of course Israel do not take all of some of these nations, just parts of them in most cases thus expanding the borders. 

It can get confusing, there are like 8 or 9 Wars between the Rapture and Armageddon. 

 

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8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the timing is in Rev 12:5, and Matt 24:31 is not a harpazo, it's a episunagó which represents the gleanings (trib saints). The main harvest are not the gleanings. These are two different groups of people separated by 7 years.

Main harvest and gleanings? Is this Talmudic? Even if it isn't there is nothing connecting the old ways with the Way the Truth and the Life. Certainly Paul would have told us to look to the past for the interpretation of the future if it held any validity for coming generations. He didn't. I don't. I don't believe anyone should.

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.

The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

Oh, so you don't think it's both? Or could be both? Just because was raised in victory he could not be caught up to God and His throne? But raised in victory is not what Acts 1:9 records. Jesus was lifted up and received in a cloud. It's the same thing though harpazo is the more forceful term. 

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). 

So you believe Israel gave birth to the church? The Jews tried to kill Jesus several times. Finally got it done at Calvary. The Jews persecuted the Apostles, and from what I have read they persecuted Christians for centuries. They were not caught up.  

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.

There is a real problem with pretrib belief concerning the letter to the churches. 

"To him that overcometh"  " He that overcometh"  "To him that overcometh"  "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end,"  "He that overcometh,"  "Him that overcometh " "To him that overcometh" Each time the church is given a promise to the overcomers. Since this is in the context of the last days it's no doubt we are overcome something related to the 70th week. To Thyatira Jesus says, "keeps my works to the end". That would not work in a pretrib scenario. And what is pretrib overcoming? A six pack and a bag of Doritos? Those weeds in the backyard? Maybe the daily commute?

And what of the 100,000 christians that die every year in the name of Jesus? Where is their pretrib 'rapture'? I tell you, these are overcomers, they died for the name of Jesus. 

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14 hours ago, Diaste said:

Um, not sure what you mean. We are 'caught up' and we meet Jesus in the clouds in the air and are with Him immediately. Do you have scripture that says we are delivered to heaven to Jesus' presence in the context of caught up at the time of the gathering of the saints?

Hi Brother Diaste, I’m using John’s description of the things being shown him from the perspective of the Lord’s Day to where he was caught in spirit. There are different appearances of saints (ranks), and of their proximity to Jesus’ throne. Some; the 24 elders are round bout the throne in Rev 4:4 and have crowns and white robes. There are some in the midst of, and round bout the throne in Rev 4:6.

Notice something here is that in Revelation Chapter Four John is at the beginning of the Lord’s Day, and in Rev 4:1 John is caught up into heaven to be shown things to be hereafter from that point of view. Previously John wrote of things past, and things which are, and here we see Jesus receiving His own throne in Rev 4:2. The vision viewpoint to be shown John from this point forward is no longer of Jesus sitting in our Father’s throne and walking among the candlesticks (churches), but actually taking that “All power and authority” given Him in Mt 28:18.

I’ll attempt to keep each segment of this short, and will only mention this one more thing and that is that at this point, the temptation to come upon all the world of Rev 3:10 (the first 3 ½ years of tribulation) has not begun which we will hopefully get to in Revelation Chapter Six, and yet these elect are with Christ; how do they get there if not caught up? Thanks.

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15 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, the child was caught up. That's not the church, that's Jesus.

Hello. :)  Since we're now discussing Rev 12:5, it's got to be apparent that anything we read of at this vision viewpoint is in context of the hereafter of Rev 4:1 when John is shown it. Jesus was not caught up immediately when He was born, and in fact the wise men could not even find Him for near two years when they went to His home in Mt 2:11.

That stated, who might this very special Man Child of Rev 12:5 be other than Jesus? The great wonder woman of Rev 12:1 is all the elect of God remaining on the earth at the very beginning of Jacob's trouble (the second 3 1/2 years of tribulation and the reign of the man of sin). Do we see any caught up to Jesus' presence subsequent to this point? Possibly Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. (of Israel; all Israel will be saved later.)


Rev 14:5  And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. These were caught up to mount Sion in Rev 14:1, (the heavenly Jerusalem - Heb 12:22) , and they stand with Jesus, and the 24 elders and 4 living ones in Rev 14:3.

God bless you in Jesus' name.
 

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