ARGOSY Posted October 23, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted October 23, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 8:20 PM, Heb 13:8 said: We're raptured to heaven just to come back down seconds later? lol. No, the persecution is for the gleanings, not the main harvest. The church is also represented as male... 1 Thess 5:5 For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual. The restrainer prevents evil, but he's not a good entity?? lol. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17, not 3 B.C. or 2,000 yr ago. It has nothing to do with Jesus. There are three stages to the body of Christ........ https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/ God bless. The restrainer does not prevent evil. He prevents the exposure of evil. He hides the evil. The evil is ALREADY THERE, ALREADY AT WORK, but it is a SECRET: 5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming He exists, but is not revealed. Something is holding back the revealing. That something is evil and needs to be removed, and only THEN is the lawless one revealed. Until then his power is SECRET. Who holds back the revealing/unveiling of evil? An evil entity. I suggest you meditate on the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted October 23, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted October 23, 2018 At the time the restrainer is removed from heaven, the antichrist is revealed. When does the antichrist come to power and get revealed? 42 months before the end according to Rev 13. When is Satan removed from heaven according to Rev 12? 1260 days (42 months) before the end. Satan is removed at the same time as the restrainer is removed. This is followed by 1260 days of wrath and persecution, just like the 42 months of wrath and persecution of the beast in Rev 13. Who do you think is trying to keep the power of lawlessness secret? Satan. Who causes Satan to fall from heaven? The church by our testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted October 23, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 9 hours ago, ARGOSY said: The restrainer does not prevent evil. He prevents the exposure of evil. He hides the evil. The evil is ALREADY THERE, ALREADY AT WORK, but it is a SECRET: 5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming He exists, but is not revealed. Something is holding back the revealing. That something is evil and needs to be removed, and only THEN is the lawless one revealed. Until then his power is SECRET. Who holds back the revealing/unveiling of evil? An evil entity. I suggest you meditate on the text. So the blessed hope is to not get beheaded and survive through trumpets and bowls? Not much encouragement and hope in that. Maybe Paul is referring to demonic doctrine's like post trib. We're not appointed to wrath, but yet we are? ---> ? 1 Thess 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. 2 Thess 2:16-17 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said: So the blessed hope is to not get beheaded and survive through trumpets and bowls? Not much encouragement and hope in that. Maybe Paul is referring to demonic doctrine's like post trib. We're not appointed to wrath, but yet we are? ---> ? 1 Thess 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. 2 Thess 2:16-17 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word. Christians have been martyred many times in history. So God is not in the habit of allowing us always to avoid that. Even pretribs believe that the so called tribulation saints will be persecuted for 3.5 years as per Rev 12 and Rev 13 and Daniel 7. So certainly even your belief is that some of God's people will go through the tribulation/wrath. I guess you feel priveleged compared to them because you are saved earlier. The day of the Lord has more intense wrath, I believe we are raptured just before the wrath that falls upon those armies gathered in Israel. That is the great winepress of God's wrath as described in Joel 3, Rev 14 and Rev 19. Edited October 24, 2018 by ARGOSY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/23/2018 at 8:43 AM, ARGOSY said: At the time the restrainer is removed from heaven, the antichrist is revealed. When does the antichrist come to power and get revealed? 42 months before the end according to Rev 13. When is Satan removed from heaven according to Rev 12? 1260 days (42 months) before the end. Satan is removed at the same time as the restrainer is removed. This is followed by 1260 days of wrath and persecution, just like the 42 months of wrath and persecution of the beast in Rev 13. Who do you think is trying to keep the power of lawlessness secret? Satan. Who causes Satan to fall from heaven? The church by our testimony. This is only myth. We all know MICHAEL takes Satan down. He has been waiting a long time - but when he hears the 7th trumpet sounding, that is his signal to go to war with Satan. The restrainer is restraining the REVEALING of the man of sin. He is not going to enter the temple and get revealed as the Beast until the church has been raptured and "taken out of the way." THEN He will enter the temple, and be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 10 hours ago, ARGOSY said: Christians have been martyred many times in history. So God is not in the habit of allowing us always to avoid that. Even pretribs believe that the so called tribulation saints will be persecuted for 3.5 years as per Rev 12 and Rev 13 and Daniel 7. So certainly even your belief is that some of God's people will go through the tribulation/wrath. I guess you feel priveleged compared to them because you are saved earlier. The day of the Lord has more intense wrath, I believe we are raptured just before the wrath that falls upon those armies gathered in Israel. That is the great winepress of God's wrath as described in Joel 3, Rev 14 and Rev 19. Tribulation for the past 2000 yr is not the Great Tribulation inside the 70th week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said: Tribulation for the past 2000 yr is not the Great Tribulation inside the 70th week. The difference is that the time of great tribulation is a global persecution of believers. For the past 2000 years, such has not been the case. There is no new, worse suffering. What could be worse than what some believers have suffered? What makes the great tribulation "great" is that there is nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Last Daze said: The difference is that the time of great tribulation is a global persecution of believers. For the past 2000 years, such has not been the case. There is no new, worse suffering. What could be worse than what some believers have suffered? What makes the great tribulation "great" is that there is nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Like I have always said, you can't kill a martyr twice! For a martyr, it WAS "great tribulation." I think also, along with no where to run - is the scope: this may well be a world wide tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said: Tribulation for the past 2000 yr is not the Great Tribulation inside the 70th week. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted October 25, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 7 hours ago, Last Daze said: The difference is that the time of great tribulation is a global persecution of believers. For the past 2000 years, such has not been the case. There is no new, worse suffering. What could be worse than what some believers have suffered? What makes the great tribulation "great" is that there is nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. A global persecution of the gleanings, not the main harvest. The main harvest is not appointed to God's wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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