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Heb 13:8

The timing of the 6th seal

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1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, Matt 24:31 is actually describing the "great trump". The word "loud" is translated "megas", and the word "episunagó" in Matt 24:31 is not "harpazo". These are two different words, one is a gathering and the other is a snatching away by force.

1. First trump - Exodus 19
2. Last trump - Resurrection and rapture prior to 70th week (1 Cor 15, 1 Thess 4)
3. Great Trump - A gathering at end of 70th week. (Zech 14, Matt 24, Rev 19) 

Zech 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Rev 19:1, 14 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

All that time, the saints have been in heaven for seven years, spiritual Israel prior to 70th week.

The "elect" in Matt 24:31 is referring to believing Jews and Gentiles that have been scattered all over the world inside the 70th week, this is spiritual Israel extended which is also called the Body of Christ. There will be more believers added into the Body after the 70th week is done, being that God sends two witnesses and three angels to spread the Gospel...

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/228185-the-four-resurrections/

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/228186-spiritualearthly-israel/

 

Trumpet: Greek word: salpigx

It is the SAME word used in Matthew 24 as in 1 Corinthians 15

So 1 Corinthians 15 describes the rapture during:

The coming of Christ

The resurrection

The last trumpet

 

1 Thessalonians 4/5 describes the rapture during:

The coming of Christ

The day of the Lord

A day of destruction/wrath

The thief in the night

 

These are all second coming concepts. At the end of this age. But pretribs complicate simple wording, to create TWO comings, TWO gatherings, TWO trumpets

The antichrist is coming soon, pretribs please don't be too discouraged when you suddenly find yourself in the great tribulation. Even if not prepared for it, it is only 3.5 years long.

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11 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Trumpet: Greek word: salpigx

It is the SAME word used in Matthew 24 as in 1 Corinthians 15

So 1 Corinthians 15 describes the rapture during:

The coming of Christ

The resurrection

The last trumpet

The last trump, the great trump. Last and Great are not the same words in Greek. The Great Multitude is in heaven coming down after being there for seven years. God bless.

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18 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

The antichrist is coming soon, pretribs please don't be too discouraged when you suddenly find yourself in the great tribulation. Even if not prepared for it, it is only 3.5 years long.

Believers in Christ are not appointed to wrath. Who are the great multitude in heaven if not believers? Post trib is a horrible doctrine.

The restrainer is the Holy Spirit inside believers being removed prior to antichrist. The words "and then" are also in the Greek..

2 Thess 2:7-8 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

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4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Believers in Christ are not appointed to wrath. Who are the great multitude in heaven if not believers? Post trib is a horrible doctrine.

The restrainer is the Holy Spirit inside believers being removed prior to antichrist. The words "and then" are also in the Greek..

2 Thess 2:7-8 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

We avoid the final wrath on the day of the Lord. We are raptured to the feast in heaven during that final wrath. 

 

In the meantime we endure the 3.5 years of persecution as described in Rev 12, and Rev 13. It's silly to see a man child as representing the church, a bride fits better, or an olive tree or lampstands are church symbols. A man child is a man, Jesus.

The very same ones who have a testimony at the beginning of the great tribulation, are those with a testimony who are persecuted in Rev 12. 

 

The restrainer keeps dark secrets, he prevents evil from bring exposed. (If you read the text properly) He is not likely to be a good entity. He is an evil removed at the revealing of antichrist, 3.5 years before the end.

 

To know who the restrainer is, we have to look elsewhere in the Bible to see if any evil entity is suddenly removed from his place, 3.5 years before the end.

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

We avoid the final wrath on the day of the Lord. We are raptured to the feast in heaven during that final wrath.

In the meantime we endure the 3.5 years of persecution as described in Rev 12, and Rev 13. It's silly to see a man child as representing the church, a bride fits better, or an olive tree or lampstands are church symbols. A man child is a man, Jesus.

The very same ones who have a testimony at the beginning of the great tribulation, are those with a testimony who are persecuted in Rev 12. 

 

The restrainer keeps dark secrets, he prevents evil from bring exposed. (If you read the text properly) He is not likely to be a good entity. He is an evil removed at the revealing of antichrist, 3.5 years before the end.

 

To know who the restrainer is, we have to look elsewhere in the Bible to see if any evil entity is suddenly removed from his place, 3.5 years before the end.

We're raptured to heaven just to come back down seconds later? lol. No, the persecution is for the gleanings, not the main harvest. The church is also represented as male...

1 Thess 5:5 For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual.

The restrainer prevents evil, but he's not a good entity?? lol. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17, not 3 B.C. or 2,000 yr ago. It has nothing to do with Jesus. There are three stages to the body of Christ........ https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/

God bless.

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(Fresh Start - No Easy Solution - These Positions Fail, brief Moments of Glory/Divorce)

Animated Epics: BEOWULF (1998) TV Movie [360p] HQ - Classic animation

youtube.com/watch?v=QKjcoFZmKuA

........................

(Jerusalem's Energy Center/Temple Mound, is the final place of God's Dispute, SEAL, if and when has God acted on the matter of this Dispute, for the Conclusion or Addendum of Daniel's Weeks, ending the gospel's program)

........................

1. First SEAL = King David voiced and began the dispute, by teaching judah the use of the bow, from Jerusalem (the significance and importants of Jerusalem), 2 Samuel 1:18

2. Second SEAL = Solomon from Jerusalem also, conquered many nations (Solomon went beyond the Jordan River, past the Red Sea, and claimed the previous Energy Center of Egypt for the Lord), 1 Kings 3:1

3. Third SEAL = ........ Three Wise Men, went forth from Jerusalem also, and conqueror in the lord's name, jesus used, "Peter, James, John ... and the Black Cloud", as a picture of the "Three Wise Men" and the SEAL opening for the Third Time, in that brief period.

4. Fourth SEAL = ......... The Apostle Paul, also, conquered many nations from jerusalem ...................... Paul is the only, one, associated with miracles, that had an army .................... none as in zero of the other apostles did, that is the unifier, to "conqueror from jerusalem, the energy center".

5. Fifth SEAL = ............... this time ................ "Jewish People" have conquerored many nations from Jerusalem ..................... by indoctrination .................... which begin around the, migration to the Americas/America (usa, independance) (coinciding with the First of Nostradamus's Three Antichrists, of Napolean, in his holocaut of the jews campaigns)

6. Sixth SEAL = ................ (You should understand by now, in order to open a SEAL, they must "conqueror from Jerusalem", you understand now?) ........................ "THE EMMANUEL" ......................... once "Gog and Magog" is killed, then the Emmanuel can conqueror from Jerusalem's Energy Center (the Cosmic Shift/Photon Belt, Second Light Source, 4th Dimension Constant for the True Unified Field/Sign of Divorce, can be initiated)

........................

........................

........................

7. Seventh SEAL = ....................... (Who Conqueror's from Jerusalem, after the Jesus/Emmanuel argument of initialization?) ........................ (THE Argument does not have to "initialize" ............ the answer is this is Jesus/God, acting to complete the law, so that "half an hour" = 3 Days of Darkness ................. AND JESUS SAID .................... I WILL CONQUEROR FROM JERUSALEM FOR THREE DAYS ........................ humanity is dead 153 days, god does all the work

........................

........................

........................

Did God ever Open any SEALS ?

This is a fact of the gospel's law, the "Ark of the Covenant" only changed hands for three times...............the figure of "4" deals with God touching creation...................so God didn't open any SEALS .................... we'll explain, why God did not open any SEALS

(The Signs associated with the SEALS, "to conqueror", were witnessed by groups of people, NOT THE WHOLE WORLD.  so in this capacity, God did not open any SEALS)

(God opened SEALS for small communities for brief periods of time, infact several times, God talks about the WHOLE WORLD in Revelation, not just one small community, so all SEALS=THE SAME ACTION for the WHOLE WORLD WHICH NEVER SAW A SEAL OPEN!)

1. God opened 5 SEALS for small communities briefly, for the faithful (the 5th SEAL OF BRIEF OPENING, was the Fatima Prophecy that dealth with the Black Sun) (Either Choose, Migration to form the America/USA for the Fifth Seal, or Choose WW1 and WW2 .................. because of Fatima Prophecy, I would say, Holocaust at the global level like WW2 is the right answer for the Fifth SEAL!)

2. God has never opened any SEALS FOR THE WHOLE World!

....................

....................

Regardless of the "World versus Isreal for SEALS" ........................ the Sixth SEAL represents the Whole World and Isreal, together with God in SEAL OPENING!

Edited by Gibbus

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On 10/20/2018 at 8:20 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

We're raptured to heaven just to come back down seconds later? lol. No, the persecution is for the gleanings, not the main harvest. The church is also represented as male...

1 Thess 5:5 For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual.

The restrainer prevents evil, but he's not a good entity?? lol. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17, not 3 B.C. or 2,000 yr ago. It has nothing to do with Jesus. There are three stages to the body of Christ........ https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/

God bless.

The restrainer does not prevent evil. He prevents the exposure of evil. He hides the evil. The evil is ALREADY THERE, ALREADY AT WORK, but it is a SECRET:

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming

He exists, but is not revealed. Something is holding back the revealing. That something is evil and needs to be removed, and only THEN is the lawless one revealed. Until then his power is SECRET.

Who holds back the revealing/unveiling of evil? An evil entity. I suggest you meditate on the text.

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At the time the restrainer is removed from heaven, the antichrist is revealed.  When does the antichrist come to power and get revealed? 42 months before the end according to Rev 13.

When is Satan removed from heaven according to Rev 12?  1260 days (42 months) before the end. Satan is removed at the same time as the restrainer is removed. This is followed by 1260 days of wrath and persecution, just like the 42 months of wrath and persecution of the beast in Rev 13.

Who do you think is trying to keep the power of lawlessness secret? Satan.

Who causes Satan to fall from heaven? The church by our testimony. 

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9 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

The restrainer does not prevent evil. He prevents the exposure of evil. He hides the evil. The evil is ALREADY THERE, ALREADY AT WORK, but it is a SECRET:

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming

He exists, but is not revealed. Something is holding back the revealing. That something is evil and needs to be removed, and only THEN is the lawless one revealed. Until then his power is SECRET.

Who holds back the revealing/unveiling of evil? An evil entity. I suggest you meditate on the text.

So the blessed hope is to not get beheaded and survive through trumpets and bowls? Not much encouragement and hope in that. Maybe Paul is referring to demonic doctrine's like post trib. We're not appointed to wrath, but yet we are? ---> 🙄

1 Thess 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Thess 2:16-17 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

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10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

So the blessed hope is to not get beheaded and survive through trumpets and bowls? Not much encouragement and hope in that. Maybe Paul is referring to demonic doctrine's like post trib. We're not appointed to wrath, but yet we are? ---> 🙄

1 Thess 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Thess 2:16-17 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

Christians have been martyred many times in history. So God is not in the habit of allowing us always to avoid that. Even pretribs believe that the so called tribulation saints will be persecuted for 3.5 years as per Rev 12 and Rev 13 and Daniel 7. So certainly even your belief is that some of God's people will go through the tribulation/wrath. I guess you feel priveleged compared to them because you are saved earlier. 

The day of the Lord has more intense wrath, I believe we are raptured just before the wrath that falls upon those armies gathered in Israel. That is the great winepress of God's wrath as described in Joel 3, Rev 14 and Rev 19.

Edited by ARGOSY
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