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Tyler S.

Help! I have a moral conflict!

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3 minutes ago, ambc said:

Ecclesiastes 10:6 says, "Fools are put in many high positions, while the rich occupy the low ones." In other words, life is unfair. Christ came to save humanity about 2,000 years ago. As for everyone born before that time (except the Hebrews), they unfortunately worshipped false gods and couldn't be saved. Yes, it's unfair, but it's life.

Then you have to state that out God doesn’t institute justice amongst his children that he “loves.” There were innocent people that died and...what...God just must’ve wanted them to die in sin and be condemned to eternal torture?! That’s a complete contradiction to Jesus’s direct words. God must not have loved those women and babies that died worshiping false gods...never knowing the gospel. I refuse to believe that. “God so loved the world.”

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Just now, Tyler S. said:

 

Then you have to state that out God doesn’t institute justice amongst his children that he “loves.” There were innocent people that died and...what...God just must’ve wanted them to die in sin and be condemned to eternal torture?! That’s a complete contradiction to Jesus’s direct words. God must not have loved those women and babies that died worshiping false gods...never knowing the gospel. I refuse to believe that. “God so loved the world.”

Your quote at the end is missing the rest. Here is the whole quote: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." You must believe in Christ to achieve salvation, not Thor, Odin, Zeus, or whatever false god. There were indeed millions of ancient people who died without Christ, and unfortunately they can't be a part of God's kingdom. That's just the way things are.

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1 minute ago, ambc said:

Your quote at the end is missing the rest. Here is the whole quote: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." You must believe in Christ to achieve salvation, not Thor, Odin, Zeus, or whatever false god. There were indeed millions of ancient people who died without Christ, and unfortunately they can't be a part of God's kingdom. That's just the way things are.

But they didn’t GET the chance to even live in the age of grace as we do today! How can a God of mercy and justice condone that? Honestly...how can you say that a perfect God of mercy and justice must’ve predestined some of his beloved children to eternal torture and anguish? That’s a literal double standard. A contradiction. I want to love the God we see in the New Testament...a forgiving God of love and mercy and justice. But I don’t see the same God all the time in the Old Testament.

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4 minutes ago, ambc said:

All scripture is divinely inspired by God? Including Old Testament verses like Deuteronomy 22:20-21, which instructs a husband to have his wife stoned to death if she tries to pass herself off as a virgin but isn't a real one? Here is what it says: "If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you." Please enlighten me and let me know how honor killings in the Old Testament are divinely inspired by God.

You testisfy to being a life-long member of the United Methodist Church, but you don't believe all Scripture is God-breathed,

G2315

θεόπνευστος
theopneustos
theh-op'-nyoo-stos
From G2316 and a presumed derivative of G4154; divinely breathed in: - given by inspiration of God.
Total KJV occurrences: 1

The Scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation just as Paul said to Timothy. 
Here also, before the written NT, the doctrines and lessons of the OT continued to be advantageous.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

From Genesis to Malachi there is a "gradual or progressive revelation" of God through His dealings with all of His Creation. We see the conflict between man and God as it unfolds from Eden to Israel. All through the Bible God shows that His love requires His discipline. The severe penalties for ungodliness, unholiness, disobedience, stubborness, and evil show us that God is not to be messed with, and that no-one who opposes Him triumphs over Him. 

1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
 

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12 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

You testisfy to being a life-long member of the United Methodist Church, but you don't believe all Scripture is God-breathed,

G2315

θεόπνευστος
theopneustos
theh-op'-nyoo-stos
From G2316 and a presumed derivative of G4154; divinely breathed in: - given by inspiration of God.
Total KJV occurrences: 1

The Scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation just as Paul said to Timothy. 
Here also, before the written NT, the doctrines and lessons of the OT continued to be advantageous.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

From Genesis to Malachi there is a "gradual or progressive revelation" of God through His dealings with all of His Creation. We see the conflict between man and God as it unfolds from Eden to Israel. All through the Bible God shows that His love requires His discipline. The severe penalties for ungodliness, unholiness, disobedience, stubborness, and evil show us that God is not to be messed with, and that no-one who opposes Him triumphs over Him. 

1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
 

You didn't explain how specifically honor killings in the Old Testament are divinely inspired by God.

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6 minutes ago, ambc said:

You didn't explain how specifically honor killings in the Old Testament are divinely inspired by God.

They teach us that way back then out of necessity that's how God wanted His chosen people, the Israelites, to relate to Him and each other. 

You didn't say why the United Methodists haven't schooled you in the divine inspiration and infallibilty of God's Word.

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10 hours ago, Tyler S. said:

Hello all. I am happy to say that I am a believing Christian and I’ve begun to feel called to study the history of the faith more as well as study the scriptures. In this pursuit I’ve stumbles across some worrying things that have, and I regrettably and humbly say this, question, not the existence of, but the nature and ways of our God. See, I read AND hear that our God is a god of justice, love, peace, righteousness, mercy, and grace. I do believe this. Thank GOD that he is because where would we be without his sacrifice if Jesus? But, in light of this, I sometimes wonder how Christians, in the past, have done some of the most HORRIBLE things imaginable and claimed wholeheartedly that God backed them on it. Do you think, for example, it really was the White Man’s “manifested destiny” to basically poach what amounted to over 90% of all Native Americans (peaceful ones or otherwise)? That doesn’t sound like peaceful conversion, loving thy neighbor, and not killing. And it made me think “there’s no way God wanted that! How is that justice? God love ALL his creations and surely he wanted them to come to the truth through peace and careful teaching” and then I read how God dealt with the Canaanites in the Old Testament....and my entire image of my loving, slow to anger, merciful, and most importantly JUST God....was turned on it’s head. I want to make it CLEAR that im still a believing Christian and I’m honestly just trying to understand this. Because, as a Christian today, I can’t imagine myself claiming that God told me to steal somebody else’s land and kill them...whether they’re a believer or not. Please help! Any advice is appreciated! Please keep it civil too as I know that this is a contentious issue. Bless!

My best advice to you is to read the Gospels and believe Jesus and trust in the atonement He secured for your Eternal salvation..

As for Canaan God was long suffering towards the evil that was done by the people of Canaan.. Don't you know they sacrificed babies by burning them alive to their false god molech...  So God is long suffering towards sinners but He is not eternally suffering towards sinners so sooner or later His wrath justice falls upon the wicked.. The same thing happened to the Jews when the Assyrians destroyed the 10 northern tribes and took them away and then later to the People of Jerusalem when the Babylonians came and destroyed their nation and lead a remnant into captivity in Babylon for 70 years..

You should also read about the times of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ.. How the wrath of God will be poured out on this world and the people of this world who will have persecuted Christians..

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9 hours ago, Tyler S. said:

 

Then you have to state that out God doesn’t institute justice amongst his children that he “loves.” There were innocent people that died and...what...God just must’ve wanted them to die in sin and be condemned to eternal torture?! That’s a complete contradiction to Jesus’s direct words. God must not have loved those women and babies that died worshiping false gods...never knowing the gospel. I refuse to believe that. “God so loved the world.”

Babies do not worship anyone..

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9 hours ago, ambc said:

All scripture is divinely inspired by God? Including Old Testament verses like Deuteronomy 22:20-21, which instructs a husband to have his wife stoned to death if she tries to pass herself off as a virgin but isn't a real one? Here is what it says: "If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you." Please enlighten me and let me know how honor killings in the Old Testament are divinely inspired by God.

Yes Deuteronomy 22 20-21 is the inspired word of God.. And anyone who is a Christian should believe it..

Fornication.. engaging in sexual intercorce outside of marriage is a sin.. And even today if that sinner rejects the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ that person will die in their sin and be cast into the eternal lake of fire for it..

So the death penalty for that sin is still standing.. The second death is upon anyone who stands before God at the final judgement unforgiven..

 

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Posted (edited)

Which of us here can say, truthfully, that we really understand how God is dealing with people who lived and died BEFORE He asked that men believe in Jesus for Salvation?  Want a number?  It is "ZERO."  Not a one of us, no matter how much we want to claim we do, has an inkling.

Edited by Willie T

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