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Help! I have a moral conflict!


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On 7/16/2018 at 3:29 AM, Tyler S. said:

Hello all. I am happy to say that I am a believing Christian and I’ve begun to feel called to study the history of the faith more as well as study the scriptures. In this pursuit I’ve stumbles across some worrying things that have, and I regrettably and humbly say this, question, not the existence of, but the nature and ways of our God. See, I read AND hear that our God is a god of justice, love, peace, righteousness, mercy, and grace. I do believe this. Thank GOD that he is because where would we be without his sacrifice if Jesus? But, in light of this, I sometimes wonder how Christians, in the past, have done some of the most HORRIBLE things imaginable and claimed wholeheartedly that God backed them on it. Do you think, for example, it really was the White Man’s “manifested destiny” to basically poach what amounted to over 90% of all Native Americans (peaceful ones or otherwise)? That doesn’t sound like peaceful conversion, loving thy neighbor, and not killing. And it made me think “there’s no way God wanted that! How is that justice? God love ALL his creations and surely he wanted them to come to the truth through peace and careful teaching” and then I read how God dealt with the Canaanites in the Old Testament....and my entire image of my loving, slow to anger, merciful, and most importantly JUST God....was turned on it’s head. I want to make it CLEAR that im still a believing Christian and I’m honestly just trying to understand this. Because, as a Christian today, I can’t imagine myself claiming that God told me to steal somebody else’s land and kill them...whether they’re a believer or not. Please help! Any advice is appreciated! Please keep it civil too as I know that this is a contentious issue. Bless!

The problem is you are viewing things on your perspective and can't see the situation clearly. Why did God kill Sodom and Gomorrah. Why did God commanded the Israelites to kill everyone in the land? Why did God heardened the farao's heart and killed him? Why Samuel give order to Saul by God to kill the Philistines and even their animals? Why did Elijah courses the kids and two bear came out of the woods and killed 42 of them? Why Ananias and Sapphira had to die? Questions which you are observing on your level.

There are couple of other problem with you image in your head. First God didn't create everyone. He created only two people. Adam and Eve. The rest was born by them. It has nothing to do with God. By nature we are not children of God but God chooses some to be His. Maybe it's hard for many to accept the fact but many people does awful things and they don't deserve to live. If God wouldn't serve justice he wouldn't be right at all. I know people like to think that everybody is good and God love everybody unconditionally....but that's the biggest dilusion in the churches and everywhere. 

You just need to grow up a little and observe the life as it is. Murderers, rapists, sexully immoral people everywhere. While I am writing this comment somewhere in this world a woman is getting raped. Someone is getting killed. If God wouldn't judge them He wouldn't be fair. 

When Jesus will come back the first thing he will do is to judge all the nations. Which means many will be destroyed. Then he will judge everyone which means many will be sentenced to torture for eternity. Why? Because this is what they deserve.

You are observing the life in your little room and can't see clearly what has happened and what is happening in this world. The image you have in your head about human mankind is absolutely incorrect.

 

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To me, the real question is were they really Christians?

A person can go to church, and say that they believe but if they are also doing all these awful things and aren't the least bit repentant, then do they truly believe in their heart or know the word of God?

 

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,  nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 

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On 7/15/2018 at 11:07 PM, Tyler S. said:

But why, then, did God COMMAND the Israelites to genocide all of those unbelieving tribes? We’re those chidren of God in his image not worth salvation? I just don’t...can’t believe that God would command his people to literally slaughter entire races for “sinning” when saved Christians themselves sin as well. It seems like a double standard and God is not the father of confusion. So I’m really not understanding...

God made a promise to the nation of Israel that He will bless those that bless them and curse those that curse them.

God foreknew when the enemies of Israel sought to wipe them out for why they got the judgment from God to be wiped out.

As for the American Indians, they too have been warring between tribes when it comes to hunting grounds and such.  Was it God's judgment to end this once and for all?  We may never know until we see Him face to face.

And tribes in Africa were warring against each other and the victors enslaves the losers for themselves as well as for selling them into slavery.

Now our American government is betraying the American people in seeing them as cattle to be culled.  The NSA has been tasked with population control while F.B.I. has been tasked to be ready to arrest parents that get violent at school board meetings for the corruption of minors being taught to their children under the radar.

With the apostasy strong in the churches and in America as from America into churches in the world, spiritual adultery is rampant by seeking a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues  as if that is the gospel of Jesus Christ when it is not for how we are to invite sinners to God, God will be coming to judge the earth and America will fall after the pre great tribulation rapture event with the rest of the western hemisphere in setting up the rest pf the world for the coming great tribulation.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

American Indians dance and chant for the "Great Spirit" to come and the reason they took to alcohol was because "fire water" reminds them of when they were communing with the "Great Spirit".  Meanwhile starting at Azusa Street Revival, the birthplace of the Pentecostal & Charismatic churches, ( rather than Pentecost of Acts 2, ) we find slain in the spirit and being drunk in the spirit happening there when emphasis was on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Proverbs 25:25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But when they put the emphasis for salvation by that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues....you will get this drunk in the spirit also as they will continually hunger for more of "God" for more of that phenomenon.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

This is what they get for not coming to Jesus for life by faith in him but coming to God by way of seeking that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

Anyway, God will be judging His House soon ( 1 Peter 4:17 ) and those still astray at that time when He appears will be left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

They will no longer be following a stranger's voice ( tongues for private use ) but His voice literally as they will follow & serve their King of kings on earth.

So do not be troubled by all of this death in the past or what is coming because God is the judge of the earth.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Old topic OP last posed July 2021

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On 5/3/2023 at 10:21 PM, Dunsee said:

To me, the real question is were they really Christians?

A person can go to church, and say that they believe but if they are also doing all these awful things and aren't the least bit repentant, then do they truly believe in their heart or know the word of God?

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit,  nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 

Can anyone judge a professing believer as not really a believer let alone a Christian?

Not really when believers can go astray or engage in sins they know not are sins.

I mean what is your solution to professing believers living in sin or have gone astray if you judge them as never were believers in the first place?  

Preach the gospel to them?  No, because they already heard and believe in the gospel.

So what does one do when coming across a professing believer with a trespass?  You correct them.  If he doe snot listen, bring 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm the reproof.  If he does not listen, bring him before the whole assembly to tell him that.  failing that, he is to be excommunicated from the church... until he does repent.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Now when excommunicated and he still does not repent, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Bridegroom will excommunicate him, but He will get that lost sheep left behind because when they die, their spirits will be with the Lord to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So if you come across a former believer, hope in the Lord that you will lead him to seek the Lord for the answers that turned him away from Him and the truth in His words so that he may repent and be a vessel unto honor ready to be received by the Bridegroom at the pre-great tribulation rapture event.

Being received as that vessel unto honor in His House, vessels of gold and silver, is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

The vessels unto dishonor, the vessels of wood & earth, will be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth but God will need to wipe the tears from their eyes to get past that loss of being partakers of the firstfruit of the resurrection where they are like the angels that can never die & live in that City of God.

The prodigal son may have given up his first inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, but he is still son as the vessels unto dishonor will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Jesus Christ, even in His name.

So condemn not any professing believer but correct them by the meat of scripture as kept in the KJV as the Lord provides opportunity & trust God to cause the increase.

 

Edited by ChristB4us
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