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Da Puppers

One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

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 Is there one future prophesied revelation of Jesus Christ,  or is there Two?   There are 2 principal words used to refer to the revealing or the revelation of Jesus Christ,  G601, apocalupto, and G602, apocalupsis.  I have given a starting list to work with.   Whether you believe there is only one or two,  be prepared to define the "what is it" and "when is it".

Verse list:Rev 1:1/KJV, Luk 17:29-30/KJV, 2Th 2:6/KJV, Rom 2:5/KJV, Rom 8:19/KJV, 1Co 1:7/KJV, 2Th 1:7/KJV, 1Pe 1:7/KJV, 1Pe 1:13/KJV

 Verse list:
Rev 1:1 KJV The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


Luk 17:29-30 KJV But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2Th 2:6 KJV  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


Rom 2:5 KJV. But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;


Rom 8:19 KJV. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation/revelation of the sons of God.


1Co 1:7 KJV. So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming/revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ:


2Th 1:7 KJV. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


1Pe 1:7 KJV. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing/revelation of Jesus Christ:


1Pe 1:13 KJV. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Blessings

The PuP

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Posted (edited)

Any close inspection of this list of verse should,  [I emphasize should]  lead one to conclude that the rapture and revelation are one and the same event.   Will any one dare to take the revelation challenge and show that any of those verses should not be viewed as our rapture?  If this assumption is right (based on the supplied verses)  let me give you one verse that might be a troubled spot. 

*[[2Th 2:6]] KJV* And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Who is the one that is to be revealed "in his time"? Jesus or the man of sin?   If it is Jesus,  how does that fit in with the timing of the rapture?   

Blessings

The PuP 

Edited by Da Puppers
Thought correction.
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37 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

Any close inspection of this list of verse should,  [I emphasize should]  lead one to conclude that the rapture and revelation are one and the same event. 

The Scripture itself gives you the answer, Da Puppers. Apostasy first, then Restrainer removed, next Man of sin revealed, the Coming of the Lord, and Gathering of the saints. 

2Th 2:1-3
(1)  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(2)  That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(3)  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

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If we pay attention to chronological order its is very clear on when and how many.

Mar 13:24  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luk 21:20  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22  For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Anyone that wants to dispute this with an argument that those scriptures are to the jews only or with other scriptures... are simply ignoring these scriptures.  

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2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The Scripture itself gives you the answer, Da Puppers. Apostasy first, then Restrainer removed, next Man of sin revealed, the Coming of the Lord, and Gathering of the saints. 

2Th 2:1-3
(1)  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(2)  That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(3)  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That's not how the passage reads. Apostasy and the revealing are what 'hold back' the coming of the Lord and the gathering.

 

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.

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3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Any close inspection of this list of verse should,  [I emphasize should]  lead one to conclude that the rapture and revelation are one and the same event.   Will any one dare to take the revelation challenge and show that any of those verses should not be viewed as our rapture?  If this assumption is right (based on the supplied verses)  let me give you one verse that might be a troubled spot. 

*[[2Th 2:6]] KJV* And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Who is the one that is to be revealed "in his time"? Jesus or the man of sin?   If it is Jesus,  how does that fit in with the timing of the rapture?   

Blessings

The PuP 

The revealing of the man of sin is what holds back until Jesus is revealed 'in his time'. 😉

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1 hour ago, Diaste said:

That's not how the passage reads. Apostasy and the revealing are what 'hold back' the coming of the Lord and the gathering.

 

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.

The apostasy has to reach critical mass at which time the prophecy will be fulfilled with the unrestrained man of sin being identified by believers and worshipped by unbelievers as President Of Planet Earth (P.O.P.E.) resulting in megas thlipsis, literally big pressure or great tribulation until the harpatzo. That's how it reads in this neck of the woods.

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3 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The apostasy has to reach critical mass at which time the prophecy will be fulfilled with the unrestrained man of sin being identified by believers and worshipped by unbelievers as President Of Planet Earth (P.O.P.E.) resulting in megas thlipsis, literally big pressure or great tribulation until the harpatzo. That's how it reads in this neck of the woods.

Yes, and after both is when Jesus comes and the gathering takes place. So literally the beast is the restrainer of the coming of the Lord, just as it is written, just as it reads, in any language. 😀

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These 2 passages: 

*[[Luk 17:29]] KJV* But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.*[[Luk 17:30]] KJV* Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

*[[2Th 1:7]] KJV* And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Equate the apocalupsis/ revelation of Jesus with the time of our rest and the time that vengeance begins to be poured out.   In other words,  these must refer to our rapture,  prior to those days.   They are both called the revelation of Jesus.   

If [and I emphasize IF] the 2nd advent is also called the revelation,  then there are (at least)  two revelations of Jesus.   If that is true there must be a textual reason to differentiate the different "revelations".  If there is only one,  then the post-trib view seems to have a leg up on other views.   If there is only one,  and you are not post-trib, in the truest sense of the view,  how do you differentiate the rapture from the advent?   The answer lies in the Greek word parousia, translated as coming.   But there is another word translated as coming,  erchomai.   The division between rapture views centers on misunderstanding his "revelation" and his "coming".  A proper evaluation of these terms together,  will produce this ideology:  there are 2 comings,  but only one revelation. 

Blessings

The PuP 

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5 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

These 2 passages: 

*[[Luk 17:29]] KJV* But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.*[[Luk 17:30]] KJV* Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

*[[2Th 1:7]] KJV* And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Equate the apocalupsis/ revelation of Jesus with the time of our rest and the time that vengeance begins to be poured out.   In other words,  these must refer to our rapture,  prior to those days.   They are both called the revelation of Jesus.   

If [and I emphasize IF] the 2nd advent is also called the revelation,  then there are (at least)  two revelations of Jesus.   If that is true there must be a textual reason to differentiate the different "revelations".  If there is only one,  then the post-trib view seems to have a leg up on other views.   If there is only one,  and you are not post-trib, in the truest sense of the view,  how do you differentiate the rapture from the advent?   The answer lies in the Greek word parousia, translated as coming.   But there is another word translated as coming,  erchomai.   The division between rapture views centers on misunderstanding his "revelation" and his "coming".  A proper evaluation of these terms together,  will produce this ideology:  there are 2 comings,  but only one revelation. 

Blessings

The PuP 

I have at least one revelation of the Godhead every day, quite a few some days. 

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