Feeling worthless as a woman

[Still Alive]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:23 AM, Darian86 said:

Hello, Saints

I really don't mean to be a negative person on the board. Apart from my first topic created, I really tried to seek Heaven and drawing close to God. I wish my walk with Him was a lot easier than what it has always been. Feeling worthless has always been a constant struggle. In 2011 I started questioning God's love for women. The bible is a terrifying book to read. And I'm not the only one becuase many women feel the way I do. I have sought for answers, but no matter how much I pray, or how many sermons I listen to, or how much I read the bible, I will always believe God loves men more, and I will ALWAYS feel this way until I am in front of His face on my knees. I just can't escape this mindset as once again, I've been battling this since 2011.

Please help me with these points I provided at the bottom, and tell me there isn't a horrific and frightening pattern in terms of the worth of a woman.

1. God made man first. Eve was the last, and the very last creation I suppose. I'm not sure why they couldn't be created together.

2. Adam was given some really impressive roles over the planet. He got to name all the animals, but worse, he got to name Eve. She had no sense of independence or couldn't even name herself. They say male and female are equal,  yet Adam named her. When you name something, that's usually a sense of ownership. Adam was to be leader of the planet. What about Eve? Well...help him or be a helpmate, whatever you call it. She just seems like a minor addition to the main piece that God had already ordained to be his greatest creation. He barely gave her much of an assignment. God created for her ADAM, like some treat wrapped up with a pretty pink bow. So, he was already given so much, and got something more. What did Eve get in return? I don't really see any type of incentive or advantage she was able to get out of any of it. Honestly, I feel sorry for her.

3. When Eve sinned, God confronted Adam. So, it's like no matter what she says or does, it's insignificant, becuase what really mattered was what Adam was supposed to do. Why didn't God confront Eve? It's like she was a some child that couldn't answer for herself.

4. Women are physically weaker. Well, thanks. If a man chooses to do something terrible to a woman, she barely has a chance against him. I have a neighbor who was coming on to me a few months ago; kept hugging me in a ways as if we were close family. I kept rejecting his hugs and tried to create space, but he ended up hugging me three times. He was really big. My head was right at his chest. His arms felt like logs. If he decided he wanted to hurt me, I knew I had no chance.

5. A woman's worth in the bible always seemed to be finding a husband. If she couldn't, she ran the risk of being poor. Oh, don't forget, she had to be a virgin, or her value was below dirt. Men could go around having as much sex and as many baby machines and wives as they wanted, yet so much pressure was on the woman being pure, obedient, and totally dismissing having to compete against other wives of her own husband. Having a son was of higher emphasis and worth. Daughters were rarely praised, known to be loved, or desired. Take for instance Jacob's daughter was raped by the king. Jacob barely expressed any concern. But anyway, women always prayed to God to give her a son. Son this. Son that. Son North, south, east, and west.

6. Mostly male genealogies were listed in the bible. Some women were rarely mentioned.

7. God paid way more attention to men, creating many to be biblical heroes for the whole span humanity to come to know and admire = Abraham, Noah, Moses, Samuel, David, and etc. Ruth only had a couple of paragraphs, yet Moses had what...maybe three whole books? And even when Ruth was mentioned, once again, her value or mission was all about having a man owning her, or at least that was what her depressed mother-in-law wanted.

8. God is known as 'He' and 'Father'. If God really is neither male nor female, why is He choosing to side or favor the male? I mean, He created two genders and it's obvious He has favored one.

9. Jesus is male as well, our one and only savior of the entire universe; the only important man that ever lived.

10. All of the disciples were male, or at least the main ones. Jesus didn't reach out to even one female? Just all male?

11. We have to submit to a man. Why? Why are we regarding our husbands as if they are lords or some God? If they are just as human as me, what makes them more important to be over me? I can understand the workforce in having leaders and bosses, but if it's your own home where you're supposed to feel comfortable and safe, why do i have to become powerless and lower myself to obey him? What is he leading me to or what for? Are women too stupid to do anything on their own? It just seems like women are to 'shut up', obey, change diapers, and look pretty.

Listen, I do not in any way to come across as having an attitude, and whining. If you're a man and reading this, you have to at least consider what it must be like picking up the bible as a woman and just being horrified of the things in there. It's asking a lot to have a woman submit to you. To you, it's nothing, but to a woman, it's way different. I have had some severe self-worth and esteem issue over the years with being a woman. Lately, I've thought about what it would be like to have a husband, and while sometimes it seems nice, most of the time, I can't deal with it. I'm not the marriage type. If I marry, I will resent him and his place as a leader. I WISH there was a way to truly understand everything. I'm just so scared to flip those papers of he bible and read something concerning my gender.

Who can help with this?

 

I don't know how to explain this in a "sensitive" way, being all man myself, but I believe it goes something like this:

God created a patriarchy, which is a hierarchy. God puts a lot more responsibility on the man, but also gave him the temperament to handle it properly, relatively speaking. and this has nothing to do with how much he "loves" men vs women. It's not about love. It is about responsibility. My wife LOVES this. But that is because she trusts me to, human flaws notwithstanding, accept and carry out my role.

It's not that women are not as important either. It is that they have a different role. A major part of that role is bearing and nurturing children. A women who chooses not to do that, in my opinion, is going to have severe feelings of worthlessness. It's all over the bible, actually, including Abraham's wife.

And don't kid yourself. Men have the same feelings, but for different reasons.

The key to overcoming this is don't be a cat complaining about how your owner treats your dog, and vice versa. God loves both men and women and, because they are different, he treats them differently. i.e. God is not PC. He's God. He can do what's right, not what our culture wants him to do.

[brujaq]

So I'm coaching 9/10 yr olds baseball  but even though we have a girls softball league mommy  and daddy decide to sign their special little daughter to play on the boys team .. I'm not there to just coach baseball, I'm there to show the boys especially those from single parent homes how to think, act and react as a man with regard to Jesus in all I taught them, well beyond baseball skills .. So even though the little girl may have been better than one or two of the boys , she was taking up a space intended for boys . I liked her but imo she was out of her place as long as there was girls softball 

I sowed a few wild oats while my wife tried to henpeck me and have her way be our way  a couple years into our marriage . When I straightened up and she became convinced everything and decision I made was based on Jesus, for family, then her, then me she ''got it too'' .. We are perfect together , I provide the house and she makes it our home . She knows she comes before me in my eyes and needs to worry about nothing , even kill for her protection unless she calls me off, now she lives returning the favor pleasing me and she is the happiest woman I know, her friends get angry when she tells them she would rather ask me first (of course you can babe, you know you don't need to ask), does anyone think that humbleness doesn't bring out the man in a man ? Think Ruth sleeping at Boaz's hem/feet, there's nothing a real man wouldn't do if they could for her at that humbleness and it just wouldn't work but for anything female . She offers me Godly unselfish council when I need it or ask that only a female could see from their POV .. She is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen both inner and outer .. Thank God for her and women like her and her humble well pleasing manner and God forbid I make her TYPE IN ALL CAPPS  , she has the fighting spirit of any 10 people if I insist on being stoopid . She trained me well and knows all the female craft well, add it up and God has made us one flesh

 

 

 

[John_Leung]

Darian,

God has His order of doing things, and He doesn't waste time on whatever He dislikes.  He created males and females after creating Adam, and Eve was created partly to give Adam a true companion. 

There are lots of great women mentioned throughout the Bible. Mary was one, and her deed of breaking the flask of perfume was to be be remembered and mentioned to many people.  Sarah, Ruth, and Esther are just a few of many worthy-mentioned women at various books in the Bible.  So no, women aren't worthless!

In the gospel of John alone, Jesus used women greatly to teach us lessons. The Samaritan woman story (John 4) teaches us that no Earthly possessions, including romance, can fully satisfy us, and we'll only be thirsty for them once and again.  She spread about her encounter with Jesus at the well and many believed.  In the story of the woman who caught in adultery (John 8 ), Jesus ultimately showed the power of love and forgiveness and humbled the men.  

And don't forget about Luke 15, the part about the woman finding lost coins. That woman represents the Holy Spirit.  And he refers to wisdom and knowledge as "she" in Proverbs.  I'd think that's very significant!

Men have their roles, and so do women.  He is full of wisdom and fairness towards everyone.  Your existence is just as precious as the men you'd ever known.  And yeah, being a mother is arguably the most underrated yet purposeful and highly regarded "job" on Earth!  You know why? Because with their natural traits of attention to details, dedication, and nurturing, women can handle it better than men.  Dads can't replace moms, or vice versa.  

We need to be happy for who we are and the way we are created.  Wish you abundant blessings! 

[Estrella]

I have to share something here. I believe all of you have answered her questions well. Personally speaking, i grew up in a culture (just like most asian and perhaps western culture) where males have more dominating roles. And it seems like males could "get away with anything" and a woman is "stuck and done for and is always in helpless state". I grew up questioning the social injustice especially against my gender since i was 6. I "hated" men. I "despised" men. I never wanted to do things that were "traditionally" assigned to women, e.g. cooking or even being in the kitchen. I felt that that is not my place. You see, i grew up with this kind of notion "a woman's place is in the kitchen and at home", and women were always portrayed as just being at the background. She just serves food and drinks and then back to kitchen. Well... that is what i witnessed first hand in my family since a child. Thankfully, that kind of thing wasn't totally imposed on me, although i faced certain restrictions....just because i was born a female. Of course, being the eldest, my father was over protective over me. As i was growing up pondering about life, social justice and the fate of my gender....i then got interested in religions and especially who God is (i come from a non-Christian background) and learned or perhaps studied on treatment of women in major religions. I have to say this, nothing touched me more than how Jesus treated women, especially women who were battered and perplexed in the bondage of sin. (I mean suffice to say during Jesus time, a woman was treated as nothing more, they are not to be seen or even acknowledged or even talked to in public...) what more, if she is sin-ladened woman. BUT...BUT... the Lord...YES...our Lord Jesus, turned the world around by talking to the woman at the well, honoured n praised a despised women, falling at His feet and washing His feet with her tears, wiping them with her hair, and the woman caught in adultery. AGAIN...WHAT ABOUT THE MAN? Surely, she cant be committing adultery without the presence of a man!  BUT.. BUT LOOK! The Lord, instead of shaming her, shamed the crowd, especially the Pharisees / religious leaders instead! He diverted the attention of the crowd from her humiliating state and He having no sin, did not condemn her!

These "samples" are enough for me to know who i want to worship. He liberated all these women who came to Him in their helpless state, freeing them from the bondage and heavy burden that the culture at that point of time has to offer. Come to think about it, He in fact, even approached women, raising eyebrows even of his own disciples. And reading the bible further, gave me a better and clearer understanding of what TRUE submission means. No..not by force or coercion, but only by LOVE. Not the worldly love, nope but by the kind of love where Jesus extends to all of us human (and yes, women included!) The kind of love where He is willing to die for us. And men has this huge responsibility to love their wives, and actually put their wives' needs beyond theirs, whilst being the head of the household. Of course, this also goes hand in hand with wives respecting their husbands and yada yada..lol.. It takes mutual submission to one another really. No partiality there. Anyway, im happy to say a lot of my mindset has changed over the years since i found the Way, the Truth and the Life. And as a woman, my identity is in Christ and i am His beloved. I know i can walk proudly with that identity and not the depressing label our culture gives us. Jesus crossed the cultural boundaries during that time.. He still does now!

Edited August 6, 2018 by Estrella

[Still Alive]

It's this simple: Men and women are different. Men were designed to handle responsibility differently and they are assigned a lot more responsibility.

For me, the OP is a bit like a sheep complaining that it can't pull as much weight as a horse, and the owner spends more time with the horse, riding it, etc. In reality, they are just different. God created men and women for different purposes. It is a mistake to focus on the strengths of the other sex (or other PEOPLE, for that matter) and ignore the strengths you were blessed with.

Work with what he gave you, and others will work with what he gave them.

Lastly, after this age, we will not be "men" and "women".  In that sense, we will be like the angels. Each person with his own strengths. Sex will be irrelevant and, most probably, non-existent.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Still Alive

[GandalfTheWise]

On 7/21/2018 at 1:23 AM, Darian86 said:

[edited for length]

Who can help with this?

Eve was the pinnacle and finality of creation;  fundamentally different in some ways from Adam while being fundamentally the same in some ways.  We live in a fallen world with an enemy that hates God and every good thing He created.   We are all fallen and have been corrupted from the original perfection Adam and Eve had before the Fall.  Both men and women are now a broken mixture of some parts of us reflecting that original perfection and some parts corrupted and broken not reflecting that original perfection.  Much of the Christian life (and being a new creation in Christ) is a restoration of the original glory of humanity and a shedding of the corruption.   We need to learn to sort out which is which at times. 

We often look at the story of the fall and assume Eve was the weak dumb susceptible one most likely to succumb to guile so satan went after her instead of Adam (who might not have fallen).   What if instead we look at this story and see that perhaps satan was going for the capstone, the linchpin, the glue that would hold creation together knowing that if he could cause her to fall that all else would fall with her.   What if Eve wasn't the weak point most susceptible to failure in an attack but rather the critical key to creation being what God intended it to be?

My wife and daughters and a number of Christian women I know liked the book Captivating (by John and Staci Eldredge) which takes a serious look at this topic and I think is a good start to bring some insights that have at times been lacking.   When we focus on what we are allowed or expected to do (and arguing about it), I think the main point is being missed.  The big question in my mind that I think we need to answer clearly, passionately, and practically as Christians is "what was different about Eve that made her the pinnacle of creation that Adam lacked?"   Most Christian discussions about this acknowledge some difference and then head straight to defining biological differences, procreation, particular roles, expectations, and rules.  I think what has been lacking is a clear, articulate, passionate, powerful, and loving expression by Christians of embracing and empowering and explaining what unique things made Eve the pinnacle of creation that Adam lacked and then actually and tangibly celebrating that in an ongoing way that makes churches stronger.

The modern message that women are no different from men flies completely in the face of the idea that Eve was the pinnacle of creation with some things about her meant to be a crowning glory of creation somehow different than Adam.  If a woman chooses her path in life in part out of anger, hurt, frustration, bitterness, and unforgiveness toward the real and perceived unfairness and wrongs of society and men, she'll likely find an echo chamber of like-minded women to encourage each other, and ultimately be doing things that are bandaids trying fix something inside that really requires deep healing inside rather than external environmental changes.  In the long run, there will always be one more thing to blame and that needs to change (most likely in society or men) before they will be happy and fulfilled.   If a woman chooses her path in life based on both on the Eve's uniqueness (as the pinnacle of creation) as well as her own unique interests, passions, strengths, and characteristics as a unique treasure and work of art of the Almighty, she's much more likely to fully become the person God intends for her to become.   

Chase who God has created you to be and revel in that person, not some empty promises of "if you could do X, Y, or Z, or if A, B, and C would change in the world, you will be fulfilled and find happiness".  Each of us is a unique treasure and work of art of God.  Our lives should be about discovering and celebrating that new creation in Christ that He is making us into, not about being envious of other people or mad at the world around us.

 

[Chrisy]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:23 AM, Darian86 said:

Hello, Saints

I really don't mean to be a negative person on the board. Apart from my first topic created, I really tried to seek Heaven and drawing close to God. I wish my walk with Him was a lot easier than what it has always been. Feeling worthless has always been a constant struggle. In 2011 I started questioning God's love for women. The bible is a terrifying book to read. And I'm not the only one becuase many women feel the way I do. I have sought for answers, but no matter how much I pray, or how many sermons I listen to, or how much I read the bible, I will always believe God loves men more, and I will ALWAYS feel this way until I am in front of His face on my knees. I just can't escape this mindset as once again, I've been battling this since 2011.

Please help me with these points I provided at the bottom, and tell me there isn't a horrific and frightening pattern in terms of the worth of a woman.

1. God made man first. Eve was the last, and the very last creation I suppose. I'm not sure why they couldn't be created together.

2. Adam was given some really impressive roles over the planet. He got to name all the animals, but worse, he got to name Eve. She had no sense of independence or couldn't even name herself. They say male and female are equal,  yet Adam named her. When you name something, that's usually a sense of ownership. Adam was to be leader of the planet. What about Eve? Well...help him or be a helpmate, whatever you call it. She just seems like a minor addition to the main piece that God had already ordained to be his greatest creation. He barely gave her much of an assignment. God created for her ADAM, like some treat wrapped up with a pretty pink bow. So, he was already given so much, and got something more. What did Eve get in return? I don't really see any type of incentive or advantage she was able to get out of any of it. Honestly, I feel sorry for her.

3. When Eve sinned, God confronted Adam. So, it's like no matter what she says or does, it's insignificant, becuase what really mattered was what Adam was supposed to do. Why didn't God confront Eve? It's like she was a some child that couldn't answer for herself.

4. Women are physically weaker. Well, thanks. If a man chooses to do something terrible to a woman, she barely has a chance against him. I have a neighbor who was coming on to me a few months ago; kept hugging me in a ways as if we were close family. I kept rejecting his hugs and tried to create space, but he ended up hugging me three times. He was really big. My head was right at his chest. His arms felt like logs. If he decided he wanted to hurt me, I knew I had no chance.

5. A woman's worth in the bible always seemed to be finding a husband. If she couldn't, she ran the risk of being poor. Oh, don't forget, she had to be a virgin, or her value was below dirt. Men could go around having as much sex and as many baby machines and wives as they wanted, yet so much pressure was on the woman being pure, obedient, and totally dismissing having to compete against other wives of her own husband. Having a son was of higher emphasis and worth. Daughters were rarely praised, known to be loved, or desired. Take for instance Jacob's daughter was raped by the king. Jacob barely expressed any concern. But anyway, women always prayed to God to give her a son. Son this. Son that. Son North, south, east, and west.

6. Mostly male genealogies were listed in the bible. Some women were rarely mentioned.

7. God paid way more attention to men, creating many to be biblical heroes for the whole span humanity to come to know and admire = Abraham, Noah, Moses, Samuel, David, and etc. Ruth only had a couple of paragraphs, yet Moses had what...maybe three whole books? And even when Ruth was mentioned, once again, her value or mission was all about having a man owning her, or at least that was what her depressed mother-in-law wanted.

8. God is known as 'He' and 'Father'. If God really is neither male nor female, why is He choosing to side or favor the male? I mean, He created two genders and it's obvious He has favored one.

9. Jesus is male as well, our one and only savior of the entire universe; the only important man that ever lived.

10. All of the disciples were male, or at least the main ones. Jesus didn't reach out to even one female? Just all male?

11. We have to submit to a man. Why? Why are we regarding our husbands as if they are lords or some God? If they are just as human as me, what makes them more important to be over me? I can understand the workforce in having leaders and bosses, but if it's your own home where you're supposed to feel comfortable and safe, why do i have to become powerless and lower myself to obey him? What is he leading me to or what for? Are women too stupid to do anything on their own? It just seems like women are to 'shut up', obey, change diapers, and look pretty.

Listen, I do not in any way to come across as having an attitude, and whining. If you're a man and reading this, you have to at least consider what it must be like picking up the bible as a woman and just being horrified of the things in there. It's asking a lot to have a woman submit to you. To you, it's nothing, but to a woman, it's way different. I have had some severe self-worth and esteem issue over the years with being a woman. Lately, I've thought about what it would be like to have a husband, and while sometimes it seems nice, most of the time, I can't deal with it. I'm not the marriage type. If I marry, I will resent him and his place as a leader. I WISH there was a way to truly understand everything. I'm just so scared to flip those papers of he bible and read something concerning my gender.

Who can help with this?

 

Hello Aunt Darian????. Welcome to WCF. Ur questions definitely make sense. Proving that God equally created women with brains??. I'm a proud teen girl and i'm here to prove to u that God loves u (God help me??).

1. God knew Adam will need a pal ( not necessarily helper) to hang out with so he created Eve. Don't u get it? The last is special. And u can see that women are delicate and beautiful. It took God a whole night to create Eve. So stand tall cus God loves us?. 

Note: he didn't create us first cus we ( whether we like to admit it or not) like to be "tough" and "independent" and probably won't want to admit that we need help. I know i won't.

2. First come, first serve. If u ask me i believe God was being considerate. Let me use my school as an example. In my school, when you're new u get special treatment so u feel welcome and that's one of d best things about being new. But. When u settle down as a "student", special treatment decreases (groan). Eve was just created. Cut her some slack. She would probably want to explore or climb trees or something. Adam on the other hand doesn't have much to do. So God gives him a job. And Eve is free to help out when she wants to. And Eve is a beautiful name. Adam must have been full of love and adoration to give her that name and i'm sure she liked it. And if she didn't complain, why should we???

3.As a matter of fact, Adam was supposed to "show her the ropes". And interrogating Eve wouldn't solve problems, it'll only make her feel like she's being picked on. Eve felt bad already so God didn't hammer on her (He was being Gentlemanly). Eve was a newbie to Earth and so she will be easily tempted, Adam was created earlier and knew the rules. God was just simply telling Adam to be a better pal or helpmate or buddy to Eve, thus respecting her as a person not just a "helpmate". So Stand Tall Cus God Loves U.

4. God never wanted women to be raped or beaten or hurt. God made us so we can be cared for. Women are weaker yes but are not punching bags and any man who beats a woman is a beast. The answer is simple. Self defence classes. They are a fun way of learning how to defend yourself. I'm not saying punch every guy that hugs u???. Simply set boundaries. Find out WHY he hugs u. Was he recently divorced? Did his daughter die? Is his mum fine? Or anything that could make him do that. He's not an enemy. Tell him he's nice but u'd appreciate it if he stopped the hugging. Joke around with it. Just tell him how uncomfortable u feel. He may not even know. And the strange things happen u might be compatible???? (Just kidding!). If he's forceful and continues to hug u, self defence or a simple slap is advised. Keep on setting boundaries. If he doesn't learn avoid areas where u can see him. Discovering shortcuts and new roads can be fun. But i doubt if u would need to, i'm sure he'll learn.

5. A woman's worth is in who she is. Can i remind u that there are women whose marital status was not known as married but were still great? I'll leave u the work of finding those women but Deborah is an example and there are others. Marriage is adviced so the woman will find a FRIEND, someone to spend ur life with and how they choose to serve their husband is none of our business. And the Bible never said men are free to fornicate. Or have sex as much as they'd like. I have never seen that in any place in my Bible, Have u?? Don't get jealous of men cus those who don't keep themselves pure are liable to shame, regret, suffering, feeling used, AIDS, Herpes, Syphilis, Hell and a whole lot more. God doesn't want us to suffer such so he warns us and those who fail to listen whether male or female will face the consequences. Plus let's not be envious of those who commit such sins because our bodies are God's temples and we keep it pure because we WANT to and if it helps i know a lot of pure male friends who believe in abstinence too. Let's not judge people for the kids they want. We are all different and they have their reasons. Who said Jacob wasn't hurt. He was devastated. It may not be written but how won't he be? He was an old man who had no way of defending himself not to talk about his daughter. I mean let's leave him out of this unless u wished he had a heart attack. Her brothers were violent and killed the guy who raped her. Though, i don't support violence, it showed that they DID care about their sister. 

6. C'mon do we have to be every where. Just relax. God loves us and it doesn't matter who has more of this or more of that. BTW, the Bible isn't a genealogy book, u can always Google??.

7. If u look at the Bible heroes they all had flaws. And God uses those who are "over-flawed" or "useless" to show others that God loves everyone. Women in that time were judges and priestesses (Deborah), helpful( Rahab) and just plain pure (Mary). I'm not a feminist and i do understand that men go through a lot. They have to deal with alot too. So let's try to walk a mile in their shoes, Okay?. If Ruth isn't complaining, why should we? The  book proves that Ruth is selfless and is considerate about her mother-in-laws. That's an awesome attribute. I love the Keep It Simple Stupid principle. Why turn a few chapters into three books? It's easier to read the way it is. And if u consider it, u find out that if Ruth never met her mother-in-law she would have still been an idol worshipper and won't be worth mentioning and if she hadn't met Boaz she won't have had Obed and there will be no Jesus. So they are important. And who writes only about themselves? I'm sure Ruth is glad that her story was written with the two people she loved most: Naomi (Mother-in-law) and Boaz (her hubby).

8. Women love their kids and are far more considerate than most Men. God chose to be a father because he knew that women take parenting with all their hearts and that men may tend to shy away a bit. All he's trying to do is assure the widows and single mothers that he's got their backs. He's also the mother of the motherless.

9. You're missing the point. Seriously does it really matter how Jesus came? Honestly to me it doesn't even matter if he came as a woman. The point is he came to save us and instead of us to be happy we still complain about how he came(things that don't matter). Whether he came as man or not, he came to save US and that's what counts. 

10. Jesus didn't dodge females. He had his reasons. Here's some reasons why:

A. Jesus needed people who knew the cities very well. Didn't it every come across to you that Jesus picked fishermen? And a tax collector? He needed people who could navigate through the sea who knew the cities and who would be better than tradesmen, fishermen and tax collectors? Women probably didn't know how to do those things. If you ask me i believe Jesus said them from embarrassment. 

B. Women tend to worry more than men. Eg if i ask my male friends to follow me, they'd simply shrug and say "sure" but if i ask my girl friends they would first ask me where we are going, what we are doing, what they should wear and stuff like that. If Jesus called women i doubt if they'd be as fast to accept as the men. I know i won't be as fast so let's tell ourselves the truth. They would probably pack bags of clothes they probably won't need and even more "just in case". I'm speaking based on myself and others i know. Not to mention that the women had their lives to think about. Men tend to be more adventurous than women. It's easy for the men to follow but some women are afraid of such traveling. They could have been worried about their homes, houses, friends and a lot more. Whether they are married or not. 

C. Discipleship ain't a walk in the park. The were constantly on the move. They didn't have time for sightseeing it shopping as many would have liked. They meet many unpleasant people, they were hung, crucified upside down, put in jail countless times and so much more. Women may have been homesick and tired of the travels. Not to mention the fact that they were low in cash. They could have slept in cheap inns and under uncomfortable conditions and some women would have thought that it wasn't worth it and would have left. So considering all this, the amount of women that would have been happy to be disciples would have been low and if there were more men and only one woman, she would have felt lonely and wouldn't concentrate. She might even feel discriminated against and oppressed. 

11. Husbands are also required to love and respect their spouses.

Hope these answers make sense.

God Loves You,

Chrisy.

[Willa]

In Christ, women have equal access.   The Holy Spirit was poured out on both men and women in Acts 2.  All of the women who had followed and ministered to Jesus were filled with the Holy Spirit of God, the very Spirit of Christ, and He came to reside in each of them.  That means that when I surrender to God, He gives me His Spirit and adopts me as His own child.  He gives me the power of God, which is greater than the world, resides in me and I don't need to fear.  He gives me wisdom, authority, love, joy, peace, long suffering patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and faith, gentle meekness, and self control.  I need to be meek toward God and humble toward others.  When I am weak, then Christ in me is strong.  I have the right to prayer which unleashes God's graces when I am in need.  God gives me strength to meet the demands of each day.  He said He would never leave me or forsake me.  He gave me the Comforter, a part of Himself the Godhead.  And He made me a part of Himself.  

As to men, God is a God of order.  I have different attributes so as to complement a man and be his other half.  They should not compete with Him but strengthen and encourage him, and fill in where he lacks.  So I allowed my husband to lead me while trusting that God was leading Him.  That means I also prayed for my husband a lot, and I honored and respected him.  Therefore he gave me a lot of independence, knowing I would make decisions that conformed to his will, just as he made decisions that conformed to God's will. I consulted him for guidance as to where is best to buy something or repair something.  Sometimes  he would ask what I thought.  If he decided to vacation on the coast, it was my responsibility to make that happen--reservations, suitcases etc.  His job was to load the car.  It was division of labor. If I noticed that something was askew, It was my duty to offer my opinion for him to consider so as to balance his thinking.  If he thought I was in error he never failed to mention it.  Since God had always mentioned it first, I sometimes didn't like hearing it again.  As a servant leader, my husband served his family and enjoyed us, and I delighted in my husband.  He was always ready to help out as he was able.

The church is the same way.  God has given men the position of responsibility and leadership in the church.  But true leaders, like Jesus, are servants.  They fill in as janitors and maintenance people during the week day if no deacon is available.  They visit the sick and dying, take in the homeless teenager, and visit those in prison as do other church elders.  All the while they counsel all and guide them toward godliness, and find time to be alone with God and prepare  teachings from Scripture for services.  Most are also husbands and dads.  So their lives are poured out even as Christ poured out His life for his church.   I, as a woman, wouldn't want to try to fill those shoes.  Let the men be the leaders and assume all that responsibility.   I have quite enough just trying to keep the home running.

[Darian86]

8 hours ago, Chrisy said:

Hello Aunt Darian????. Welcome to WCF. Ur questions definitely make sense. Proving that God equally created women with brains??. I'm a proud teen girl and i'm here to prove to u that God loves u (God help me??).

1. God knew Adam will need a pal ( not necessarily helper) to hang out with so he created Eve. Don't u get it? The last is special. And u can see that women are delicate and beautiful. It took God a whole night to create Eve. So stand tall cus God loves us?. 

Note: he didn't create us first cus we ( whether we like to admit it or not) like to be "tough" and "independent" and probably won't want to admit that we need help. I know i won't.

2. First come, first serve. If u ask me i believe God was being considerate. Let me use my school as an example. In my school, when you're new u get special treatment so u feel welcome and that's one of d best things about being new. But. When u settle down as a "student", special treatment decreases (groan). Eve was just created. Cut her some slack. She would probably want to explore or climb trees or something. Adam on the other hand doesn't have much to do. So God gives him a job. And Eve is free to help out when she wants to. And Eve is a beautiful name. Adam must have been full of love and adoration to give her that name and i'm sure she liked it. And if she didn't complain, why should we???

3.As a matter of fact, Adam was supposed to "show her the ropes". And interrogating Eve wouldn't solve problems, it'll only make her feel like she's being picked on. Eve felt bad already so God didn't hammer on her (He was being Gentlemanly). Eve was a newbie to Earth and so she will be easily tempted, Adam was created earlier and knew the rules. God was just simply telling Adam to be a better pal or helpmate or buddy to Eve, thus respecting her as a person not just a "helpmate". So Stand Tall Cus God Loves U.

4. God never wanted women to be raped or beaten or hurt. God made us so we can be cared for. Women are weaker yes but are not punching bags and any man who beats a woman is a beast. The answer is simple. Self defence classes. They are a fun way of learning how to defend yourself. I'm not saying punch every guy that hugs u???. Simply set boundaries. Find out WHY he hugs u. Was he recently divorced? Did his daughter die? Is his mum fine? Or anything that could make him do that. He's not an enemy. Tell him he's nice but u'd appreciate it if he stopped the hugging. Joke around with it. Just tell him how uncomfortable u feel. He may not even know. And the strange things happen u might be compatible???? (Just kidding!). If he's forceful and continues to hug u, self defence or a simple slap is advised. Keep on setting boundaries. If he doesn't learn avoid areas where u can see him. Discovering shortcuts and new roads can be fun. But i doubt if u would need to, i'm sure he'll learn.

5. A woman's worth is in who she is. Can i remind u that there are women whose marital status was not known as married but were still great? I'll leave u the work of finding those women but Deborah is an example and there are others. Marriage is adviced so the woman will find a FRIEND, someone to spend ur life with and how they choose to serve their husband is none of our business. And the Bible never said men are free to fornicate. Or have sex as much as they'd like. I have never seen that in any place in my Bible, Have u?? Don't get jealous of men cus those who don't keep themselves pure are liable to shame, regret, suffering, feeling used, AIDS, Herpes, Syphilis, Hell and a whole lot more. God doesn't want us to suffer such so he warns us and those who fail to listen whether male or female will face the consequences. Plus let's not be envious of those who commit such sins because our bodies are God's temples and we keep it pure because we WANT to and if it helps i know a lot of pure male friends who believe in abstinence too. Let's not judge people for the kids they want. We are all different and they have their reasons. Who said Jacob wasn't hurt. He was devastated. It may not be written but how won't he be? He was an old man who had no way of defending himself not to talk about his daughter. I mean let's leave him out of this unless u wished he had a heart attack. Her brothers were violent and killed the guy who raped her. Though, i don't support violence, it showed that they DID care about their sister. 

6. C'mon do we have to be every where. Just relax. God loves us and it doesn't matter who has more of this or more of that. BTW, the Bible isn't a genealogy book, u can always Google??.

7. If u look at the Bible heroes they all had flaws. And God uses those who are "over-flawed" or "useless" to show others that God loves everyone. Women in that time were judges and priestesses (Deborah), helpful( Rahab) and just plain pure (Mary). I'm not a feminist and i do understand that men go through a lot. They have to deal with alot too. So let's try to walk a mile in their shoes, Okay?. If Ruth isn't complaining, why should we? The  book proves that Ruth is selfless and is considerate about her mother-in-laws. That's an awesome attribute. I love the Keep It Simple Stupid principle. Why turn a few chapters into three books? It's easier to read the way it is. And if u consider it, u find out that if Ruth never met her mother-in-law she would have still been an idol worshipper and won't be worth mentioning and if she hadn't met Boaz she won't have had Obed and there will be no Jesus. So they are important. And who writes only about themselves? I'm sure Ruth is glad that her story was written with the two people she loved most: Naomi (Mother-in-law) and Boaz (her hubby).

8. Women love their kids and are far more considerate than most Men. God chose to be a father because he knew that women take parenting with all their hearts and that men may tend to shy away a bit. All he's trying to do is assure the widows and single mothers that he's got their backs. He's also the mother of the motherless.

9. You're missing the point. Seriously does it really matter how Jesus came? Honestly to me it doesn't even matter if he came as a woman. The point is he came to save us and instead of us to be happy we still complain about how he came(things that don't matter). Whether he came as man or not, he came to save US and that's what counts. 

10. Jesus didn't dodge females. He had his reasons. Here's some reasons why:

A. Jesus needed people who knew the cities very well. Didn't it every come across to you that Jesus picked fishermen? And a tax collector? He needed people who could navigate through the sea who knew the cities and who would be better than tradesmen, fishermen and tax collectors? Women probably didn't know how to do those things. If you ask me i believe Jesus said them from embarrassment. 

B. Women tend to worry more than men. Eg if i ask my male friends to follow me, they'd simply shrug and say "sure" but if i ask my girl friends they would first ask me where we are going, what we are doing, what they should wear and stuff like that. If Jesus called women i doubt if they'd be as fast to accept as the men. I know i won't be as fast so let's tell ourselves the truth. They would probably pack bags of clothes they probably won't need and even more "just in case". I'm speaking based on myself and others i know. Not to mention that the women had their lives to think about. Men tend to be more adventurous than women. It's easy for the men to follow but some women are afraid of such traveling. They could have been worried about their homes, houses, friends and a lot more. Whether they are married or not. 

C. Discipleship ain't a walk in the park. The were constantly on the move. They didn't have time for sightseeing it shopping as many would have liked. They meet many unpleasant people, they were hung, crucified upside down, put in jail countless times and so much more. Women may have been homesick and tired of the travels. Not to mention the fact that they were low in cash. They could have slept in cheap inns and under uncomfortable conditions and some women would have thought that it wasn't worth it and would have left. So considering all this, the amount of women that would have been happy to be disciples would have been low and if there were more men and only one woman, she would have felt lonely and wouldn't concentrate. She might even feel discriminated against and oppressed. 

11. Husbands are also required to love and respect their spouses.

Hope these answers make sense.

God Loves You,

Chrisy.

'Aunt Darian' ? okay ?

While I admire your attempt to help me see some things differently, I'm kind of put off by the tone where it seems I'm not taken seriously here. I came here really looking for guidance, but it seems a couple of you think I'm just pulling stuff out of my behind and looking for things to complain about with my gender. BELIEVE me, I do not want to feel this way. I want to be enlightened and full of hope, but that's not where I am right now.  As I've stated firsthand, I've battled with this for years, and in trying to come out of it, I've only grown more bitter. Right now in my life, I am at the lowest I had ever been with both Depression and Anxiety tag-teaming me. So, I'm really here at this forum as a last resort becuase my wheels are spinning and I honestly don't know what to do anymore. If you've never dealt with depression, then you don't understand.

4. God never wanted women to be raped or beaten or hurt. God made us so we can be cared for. Women are weaker yes but are not punching bags and any man who beats a woman is a beast. The answer is simple. Self defence classes. They are a fun way of learning how to defend yourself. I'm not saying punch every guy that hugs u???. Simply set boundaries. Find out WHY he hugs u. Was he recently divorced? Did his daughter die? Is his mum fine? Or anything that could make him do that. He's not an enemy. Tell him he's nice but u'd appreciate it if he stopped the hugging. Joke around with it. Just tell him how uncomfortable u feel. He may not even know. And the strange things happen u might be compatible???? (Just kidding!). If he's forceful and continues to hug u, self defence or a simple slap is advised. Keep on setting boundaries. If he doesn't learn avoid areas where u can see him. Discovering shortcuts and new roads can be fun. But i doubt if u would need to, i'm sure he'll learn.

My neighbor is a married man with two little boys. I got off work around 5:30am and he was sitting in his car watching me enter my house. He called me over and hugged me tight, stating he was proud of my accomplishments...what accomplishments? I bought a car like half year prior and had been working for an employer I despise for nearly a year. Those were the only two things that were different in my life. Nothing more. I pulled away, and then he started talking about how he wanted to tell me something he feared may offend me.  He's been wanting to 'tell me something' for about a year now, and I can only imagine he's thinking about cheating on his wife with me. I created space and he found more excuses to wrap his arms around me. This was a BIG man. If he decided he wanted to do something to me, well too bad, I have NO chance because I'm not equipped to handle a man off if he wants to do something. THAT'S THE PROBLEM I have with how God created us. So laugh it off? Or consider that we may be compatible? He was terrifying that morning. Yeah, I've considered self defense, or purchasing a gun, but those two things may not always work because when you're in the moment, you really have to think and move sharply upon such an adrenaline-driven moment where you may not think straight, or you're dead.

5. And the Bible never said men are free to fornicate. Or have sex as much as they'd like. I have never seen that in any place in my Bible, Have u??

Let's not judge people for the kids they want. We are all different and they have their reasons.

Who said Jacob wasn't hurt. He was devastated. It may not be written but how won't he be? He was an old man who had no way of defending himself not to talk about his daughter. I mean let's leave him out of this unless u wished he had a heart attack. Her brothers were violent and killed the guy who raped her. Though, i don't support violence, it showed that they DID care about their sister. 

Men were allowed to have multiple wives. Wives could not have that. Not saying marriage should involve more than one spouse. But men had that luxury, especially having other concubines and to enjoy other spouses whereas, again, which I stated earlier, those wives must have had to endure competition and favoritism. I don't recall God openly disapproving of this toward these men. I don't recall God confronting these men and asking them why they have done this or correcting them.

If people want a boy over a girl or a girl over a boy, fine. That's not really what I was touching on. If you read the bible, you will noticed many women and maybe even men are always crying and praying over a boy. What is so wrong with having a girl? Is a girl not as worthy as a boy? And if she does birth a son, his name is given. If there is mentioning of a daughter, there's no recognition at all. They're just 'other' children. And the genealogies are listed where barely a woman is named. So, if somebody can CLEAR this up for me, that would be great, becuase i do NOT ever recall hearing of a daughter birth and somebody is glad and happy of it in the bible. For example, God told Abraham He'd give him a son, Isaac and how this boy was going to carrying wonders through his bloodline of all the world.

NO, I wouldn't want Jacob to have a heart attack. However, the entire situation was messed up. When the king met with Jacob, it states Jacob and his sons spoke over some negotiation, stating if only the men of the king's city are circumcised, THEN they would allow EXCHANGE of their daughters as if daughters were some type of cattle.  What is there to exchange? Why couldn't the daughters choose who they wanted to marry on their own standard? The girl had just been raped. And while the brothers basically killed the whole city, the texts states they handed her over back to the very same guy that raped her before they invaded the kingdom. otherwise it would not have stated they rescued her from the prince's house. She could have been raped again. Very messed up.

6. C'mon do we have to be every where. Just relax. God loves us and it doesn't matter who has more of this or more of that. BTW, the Bible isn't a genealogy book, u can always Google??.

Relax? I'd love to, and I'm trying to, but I can't. This battle I'm going through isn't your battle, so of course you're going to make light of it. In my view, the bible is severely one-sided. Reading this book as a woman is extremely difficult. Praise God that you don't have that problem... I'm still trying to get there. NO, women don't have to be everywhere, but men were everywhere, and women faintly had roles throughout the bible compared to a man.

7. If u look at the Bible heroes they all had flaws. And God uses those who are "over-flawed" or "useless" to show others that God loves everyone. Women in that time were judges and priestesses (Deborah), helpful( Rahab) and just plain pure (Mary). I'm not a feminist and i do understand that men go through a lot. They have to deal with alot too. So let's try to walk a mile in their shoes, Okay?. If Ruth isn't complaining, why should we? The  book proves that Ruth is selfless and is considerate about her mother-in-laws. That's an awesome attribute. I love the Keep It Simple Stupid principle. Why turn a few chapters into three books? It's easier to read the way it is. And if u consider it, u find out that if Ruth never met her mother-in-law she would have still been an idol worshipper and won't be worth mentioning and if she hadn't met Boaz she won't have had Obed and there will be no Jesus. So they are important. And who writes only about themselves? I'm sure Ruth is glad that her story was written with the two people she loved most: Naomi (Mother-in-law) and Boaz (her hubby).

Okay, this makes sense

8. Women love their kids and are far more considerate than most Men. God chose to be a father because he knew that women take parenting with all their hearts and that men may tend to shy away a bit. All he's trying to do is assure the widows and single mothers that he's got their backs. He's also the mother of the motherless.

It's kind of a given that women are more nurturing and watchful of kids then men are. However, this doesn't really answer the question of why God chooses to favor being known as 'He' , or 'Father' if he really isn't neither male or female. I get we won't always know everything, and that God doesn't have to answer to any of us. I also am not stating he should be known as mother either. But this has always bothered me. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

9. You're missing the point. Seriously does it really matter how Jesus came? Honestly to me it doesn't even matter if he came as a woman. The point is he came to save us and instead of us to be happy we still complain about how he came(things that don't matter). Whether he came as man or not, he came to save US and that's what counts. 

I mentioned Jesus as a man to prove a point, that everything seems to center around one gender, whether it's God, Jesus, angels, disciples, prophets (or most of them), etc.

10. Jesus didn't dodge females. He had his reasons. Here's some reasons why:

A. No, I did not consider them being used as a way to navigate through the cities. Good one. But he used 12 men. That's a big number. Not even one could be a woman? But I guess even so, the people wouldn't even listen to her or taken her seriously, given that women were (are still) oppressed and were to be silent.

B. This really doesn't make much sense becuase even the 12 men Jesus picked grieved him a lot. They doubted him. They got on his nerves, and acted out when they should have known better. Didn't all of them flee when he was tortured? And they were MEN. To state the women would have complicated things kind of took me back a bit. There were many women that were able to be loyal to him and weren't even a personal follower of his.

C. In these three points, you're kind of basing women as worrying about shopping and painting their nails, and wondering what's new in glamour magazines. Slightly hard for me to take you seriously here. However, it did get me thinking a little more with considering many other things that could have gone wrong.

1. Yes, they did meet with unpleasant people, even people that tried to Kill Jesus. So, maybe (especially with a woman's size as I complained in #4), handling a crowd like that might not be a good idea for her.

2. Women being homesick? Okay, maybe so, especially when they were strictly tied to being in homes rather than allowed to work. Maybe traveling would not have been a thing she could handle, especially having access to money.

Given my studies so far and the responses, I have thought differently about some things, but I'm not out of the woods yet. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Darian86