The Pietists

[Fidei Defensor]

The Pietists were a religious movement that came out of Lutheranism in 17th Century. The movement aimed at a simpler faith walk and was spearheaded by Speyer, a man who wanted to reform Protestantism. 

Hallmarks of this movement was simplistic meeting houses (Cistercian in color), openess to Ecumenicalism, gentler response to heretics, and a radical Piety.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

The Pietists were a religious movement that came out of Lutheranism in 17th Century. The movement aimed at a simpler faith walk and was spearheaded by Speyer, a man who wanted to reform Protestantism. 

Hallmarks of this movement was simplistic meeting houses (Cistercian in color), openess to Ecumenicalism, gentler response to heretics, and a radical Piety.

Hi FD. Wikipedia has the founder as one Philipp Spener:

Quote: Pietism originated in modern Germany in the late 17th century with the work of Philipp Spener, a Lutheran theologian whose emphasis on personal transformation through spiritual rebirth and renewal, individual devotion and piety laid the foundations for the movement. Although Spener did not directly advocate the quietistic, legalistic and semi-separatist practices of Pietism, they were more or less involved in the positions he assumed or the practices which he encouraged.

The emphasis of the Pietists on piety is still around, mainly because some satisfaction is to be derived from such an emphasis, by those who see it as a more appealing alternative than other emphases.

[Fidei Defensor]

7 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi FD. Wikipedia has the founder as one Philipp Spener:

Quote: Pietism originated in modern Germany in the late 17th century with the work of Philipp Spener, a Lutheran theologian whose emphasis on personal transformation through spiritual rebirth and renewal, individual devotion and piety laid the foundations for the movement. Although Spener did not directly advocate the quietistic, legalistic and semi-separatist practices of Pietism, they were more or less involved in the positions he assumed or the practices which he encouraged.

The emphasis of the Pietists on piety is still around, mainly because some satisfaction is to be derived from such an emphasis, by those who see it as a more appealing alternative than other emphases.

Thanks for sharing this. The Pietists I believe we’re right to adopt s new gentler attitude towards heretics (less fire and more friendship):

“Instead of merely didactic, and often bitter, attacks on the heterodox and unbelievers, a sympathetic and kindly treatment of the them.” (Pia desideria, 4th Proposal, Philip Spener, Foundimg, Pietism, Wikipedia)

Edited July 22, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Zeisig]

Yes I read about some reformed (calvin) branch, than a leading lutheran figure (Spenner) and a strong influence from the city of Halle (A.Hermann Franke): This man managed to be the head and worked from within the state system standing for a University 'plus' system. The whole movement had the support of prussians king. With pädagogic and other scientific subjects, like jura or school of theology. Franke spread his influence by his devoted christian circles all over my contry. Thereby he changed the development in Germany. Earl Zinzendorf came out of his training. Later they developed working together (in J. Wessleys) time.

Zinzendorf (with his moravians) stands for the Lutheran branch of churches founded in Philadelphia (US). Since 1827 for a whole century his groop was most effective in missions all over the world. 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Zeisig

[Heleadethme]

On 7/22/2018 at 11:41 AM, Fidei Defensor said:

Thanks for sharing this. The Pietists I believe we’re right to adopt s new gentler attitude towards heretics (less fire and more friendship):

“Instead of merely didactic, and often bitter, attacks on the heterodox and unbelievers, a sympathetic and kindly treatment of the them.” (Pia desideria, 4th Proposal, Philip Spener, Foundimg, Pietism, Wikipedia)

Heretics are false teachers and I believe the attitude of the church should just be the same as what we see in the bible.  It's dangerous to try to invent or figure out anything that wavers from that....anyone who does so becomes a false teacher themself.  We don't get to make things up as go along.....that is what false religion does.....we inherited the gospel from the Author of it and so He is the only one who gets a say in what that is.    But how we approach lost souls is not the same approach that we would apply to those who claim Christ.

If only we would just stick to the simplicity of the bible, in the same spirit, seeking the Lord for HIS understanding.....without reference to how anyone else does things or has done things in the past.  Push- back always leads to more error and lack of balance.  How I think of it is that the gospel just keeps marching straight and true, no looking to the right or the left, no shadow of turning in response to the error of the day......it just should not be moved.

[Heleadethme]

On 7/22/2018 at 4:10 AM, Michael37 said:

The emphasis of the Pietists on piety is still around, mainly because some satisfaction is to be derived from such an emphasis, by those who see it as a more appealing alternative than other emphases.

Yes, the flesh is always looking to be satisfied, and we need to guard against that.  If we love the Lord then the truth should be the only thing that appeals to us and satisfies our hearts.  We shouldn't follow what appeals to the flesh and emotions and what 'seemeth right' to our carnal minds.  Only the true and pure gospel has power to save and it just is not man-pleasing or man-centred (humanistic).

Well, as we know the gospel has never appealed to most and nor should anyone alter it to try and make it so.  It only appeals to those who the Father is drawing....so the answer is to pray and ask the Lord to do that, to draw souls, not to change the gospel to make it more appealing.

[Behold]

On 5/1/2020 at 9:48 AM, Heleadethme said:

Heretics are false teachers and I believe the attitude of the church should just be the same as what we see in the bible.  It's dangerous to try to invent or figure out anything that wavers from that..

Carnal believing is always trying to tolerate what God rejects.

[Fidei Defensor]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:48 AM, Heleadethme said:

Heretics are false teachers and I believe the attitude of the church should just be the same as what we see in the bible.  It's dangerous to try to invent or figure out anything that wavers from that....anyone who does so becomes a false teacher themself.  We don't get to make things up as go along.....that is what false religion does.....we inherited the gospel from the Author of it and so He is the only one who gets a say in what that is.    But how we approach lost souls is not the same approach that we would apply to those who claim Christ.

If only we would just stick to the simplicity of the bible, in the same spirit, seeking the Lord for HIS understanding.....without reference to how anyone else does things or has done things in the past.  Push- back always leads to more error and lack of balance.  How I think of it is that the gospel just keeps marching straight and true, no looking to the right or the left, no shadow of turning in response to the error of the day......it just should not be moved.

I agree that we should stick with Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone). My point wasn’t to learn heresies, although as a theologian I study them so I can recognize their return (I think most brothers and sisters should stick with Scripture for apologetics, when you know truth you can smell heresy a mile away, it can be mind bending to read about the Gnostics and etc, so I tend to not recommend such studies); I think we could be gentler with heretics, correct them yes, but reason and share the truth with them, and if they reform than great, if not we tried. I wouldn’t want to be abandoned if I was captive to heresy, I would want a spiritual physician with bedside manner to help. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Heleadethme]

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I agree that we should stick with Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone). My point wasn’t to learn heresies, although as a theologian I study them so I can tecognize their return (I think most brothers and sisters should stick with Scripture for apologetics, when you know truth you can smell heresy a mile away, it can be mind bending to read about the Gnostics and etc, so I tend to not recommend such studies); I think we could be gentler with heretics, correct them yes, but reason and share the truth with them, and if they reform than great, if not we tried. I wouldn’t want to be abandoned if I was captive to heresy, I would want a spiritual physician with bedside manner to help. 

I agree up to a point, except that there is a wide range of "weaponry" in the Lord's arsenal.....If some are leading people astray they are a danger to the flock and if they don't respond to being kindly shown the truth then the Lord might lead someone to take a stronger stand.  Scripture also says there are times when we are not to even eat with certain ones, or bid them Godspeed lest we be partaker of their error, and times when we are to brush the dust of our feet off against those who reject the truth.  And faithful are the wounds of a friend....speak truth to your neighbour....don't let your neighbour remain in sin but rebuke him...etc.  We've all been influenced by the societal norms that we grew up in, more than many realize.....heavy taint of political correctness in the west....but God's ways are not the ways of this world.  Times when it is in a person's own best interest to endure and heed an old fashioned telling off.

[Fidei Defensor]

6 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

I agree up to a point, except that there is a wide range of "weaponry" in the Lord's arsenal.....If some are leading people astray they are a danger to the flock and if they don't respond to being kindly shown the truth then the Lord might lead someone to take a stronger stand.  Scripture also says there are times when we are not to even eat with certain ones, or bid them Godspeed lest we be partaker of their error, and times when we are to brush the dust of our feet off against those who reject the truth.  And faithful are the wounds of a friend....speak truth to your neighbour....don't let your neighbour remain in sin but rebuke him...etc.  We've all been influenced by the societal norms that we grew up in, more than many realize.....heavy taint of political correctness in the west....but God's ways are not the ways of this world.  Times when it is in a person's own best interest to endure and heed an old fashioned telling off.

Indeed, after a gentle dialouge and nudge, we must be more stern. It mirrors God who is gracious, but then at times will be a Lion of Judah roaring to warn people of their error (see Matthew 23, Woe to the Pharisees). 

I think it is possible to defend orthodoxy, to be an apologist and protect the faith, while also being gentle and kind to those who are in error. It depends on what the Holy Spirit leads you to do, some in error may need tough words and lion’s roar, others sweet honey comb words and a lamb.