September 23, 2017

[iamlamad]

15 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

You just don't get it.   I didn't say the seals were about gathering.   I didn't even say when the seals would be open [at this time next year].  

No,  i gave you scriptural basis for seals from Ezekiel.   You reject them as being history.   You are blinded by your conceit.

Blessings

The PuP 

Here is a quote:  " I would just say that that will be the beginning of gathering the children of Israel,  Jews and members of all 10 "lost" tribes to Jerusalem for judgment.   It's not that judgment,  just the initiation of the gathering. "

Did I misunderstand you? 

When I read what you wrote from Ezekiel, I did not see any kind of a connection to the seals. I don't think there is a connection. I don't think they are history, I KNOW they are history. I know the first seal is to represent the CHURCH with the gospel. You will find this out when you get to heaven, if not before. 

We simply do not read the scriptures the same way. It is not that important an issue anyway. We can just agree to disagree on this point. I can guess we both love the Lord and are doing our best to bring others in. 

Question: was Paul conceited when he said we would be judged by HIS gospel? I don't think so. Neither do I think he was conceited because he received so much revelation knowledge. 

You imagine I am conceited, but I don't. When God reveals something to me, I HAVE IT! It is mine. No amount of false doctrine can change what He has taught me!  That is not conceit, it is just being sure of what God taught me. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

It is if you add loss of salvation. Quenching the spirit is not loss of salvation, it's simply quenching the spirit.

It is true that sinning quenches the spirit. I will agree. But disobeying Jesus means a believer does not love Him for He said, if we love Him we will obey His commandments. You seem to think that Jesus' blood automatically removes sin, with no action from the believer. I don't think that is scriptural. When God says He will not forgive until WE forgive, I take that very seriously!  I don't think unforgiven sin can be allowed into heaven. Neither do I think His blood will cover a sin that the Father has not forgiven. 

Therefore there are some sins that involve making it into heaven.  No one can con God. He know our hearts. If the Holy Spirit is trying to get a believer to forgive someone and they are refusing - that puts that believer in a very dangerous spot! If the devil could pick them off - say a deadly car accident, and they should die while still holding unforgiveness, sorry, but they are not qualified for heaven. And if they are dead, they have missed almost all chances to repent and make it right. Their ONLY hope is for a strong believer to bring them back to life.

This is definitely NOT OSAS - but it is scripture. 

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, other one said:

1 Peter 4:8-9
8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 
NASB
 

Very true! However, love forgives too!  If someone refuses to forgive, they have a love problem! They also have a sin problem!

[Heb 13:8]

 

Quote

After people are born again, God expects us to LIVE for Him! He expects us to put sin AWAY from us. But yet, if we do sin, He expects us to RUN to 1 John 1:9 and confess.  By the way, when someone is striving to NOT sin, it is not "works" it is obedience to Him!

What do you think discipline and sanctification is for, are you denying the power of God in the believer? Heb 12:4-13

Quote

(Faith without works is dead, being alone)

James 2 has nothing to do with losing salvation. If you read closer, the topic is Godly righteousness or lack thereof.

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They can WILLING walk away from God just as previously they walked TO God.  You see, SIN is very deceptive, taking people farther than they at first wanted to go, and keeping them there far longer than they wanted to stay. Sin is like that. If people keep on sinning a pet sin, the day could come when they RESENT the Holy Spirit bugging them about it! When that happens, this believe is in a very very dangerous place! 

For the readers, this writer seems to be denying that this scripture fits born again people

Why are you so focused on your sin. Believers are no longer condemned by their sin. There's a higher calling for us now, and that's to preach what Jesus did on the cross for us, not what we can do for ourselves. Preach the Glory of God, not the glory of man.

Quote

Heb. 6  

⁴ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

⁵ And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

⁶ If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

Once enlightened means they have heard the gospel.

Have tasted the heavenly gift means they have been born again.

Made partakers of the Holy Ghost means they have received the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts. 2

Tasted the good word of God speaks of falling in love with the written WORD of God

Tasted the powers of the world to come means they got acquainted with the POWER gifts of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps a power gift at one time worked through them, for example the gift of miracles. Perhaps they prayed for people and saw miracles of God's power. 

All these things together are a progression of a maturing believer, and in the end a fully mature believer. Now, what does Hebrews say?

IF they shall fall away.....walk away from Jesus' blood covenant. HOW? Perhaps they got to where sin looked better than salvation. It happens! Sin is very deceptive! So what does the word say?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance!  I did not write this, the writer of Hebrews wrote it!

 

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-27 are actually a cross reference for the crucifixion of Christ and is using metaphorical language to describe the maturity of believers in Christ. Not many understand that Heb 6 thought process actually begins at Heb 5:11.

 

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the (mature), who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

 

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to (maturity), not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

 

This has nothing to do with losing salvation, less one believes God throws believers into hell for lack of maturity, which is on the borderline of insanity. Non-osas says to repent of your sin while OSAS says to believe in the finished work of the cross and fully surrender to Jesus Christ. How can you fully surrender when you're still condemned through sin. God bless.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 Your ability to objectively analyze things is lacking because you think that you understand when you don't.   The more passionate you are about something,  in this case prophecy,  the more difficult to be objective and even more difficult to acknowledge error.  You are very passionate... agreed.   With foundational errors and beliefs,  come a compounding of errors.  

The principal foundation in all of scripture is faith.   Believing withOUT the evidence sitting in front IS WHAT CONSTITUTES FAITH.    Many prophecies in scripture are mistakenly identified as historically fulfilled.   Most, very nearly all,  theological overviews [the big picture]  do not have room for these prophetical anomalies, and so resign them to history.   I have written on these things recently,  but I would ask you,  examine chapters 5-7 of Ezekiel,  and tell me if you see any difference.   

The phrase "no man knows the day" exemplifies the rule of faith..  It boils down to serving God by one of two ways... fear or love.   Perfect love casts out fear.   Prefect love is perfect faith.   One of the greatest challenges to your faith,  is to love him unconditionally in the midst of knowing that his return is NOT imminent.   Expecting the unexpected,  stills means it is unexpected.   This is a foundational premise of pretrib.   It actually encourages people to serve God out of fear,  because they don't know when he is coming.  [I don't either,  but i know without question that it is not imminent]. God wants us to serve him out of perfect love... With no fear.    Not knowing when he is coming,  does not mean that we cannot be certain of the times that we know that he is not coming.   That is the Olivet Discourse.   The signs that precede his coming.   His return is NOT a sign.   Signs precede his return.  And when the last sign happens,  then will his return truly be imminent.  Go ahead.   I dare you to love him with perfect love. 

Blessings

The PuP 

 

You wrote all that only because we disagree. In fact, I am as pretrib as one can be, because I can prove pretrib in the scriptures. I am convinced GOD is pretrib. He is not going to leave His children here during the time of His wrath. His wrath begins at the 6th seal, so the rapture has to take place before that - just common sense. And would you know it? Paul TELLS US the same thing! It is right there in black and white, and many millions have seen it - yet many today do not see it. You think I don't understand, simply because I disagree with you and you imagine you DO understand!  I can say the same thing: YOU don't understand. (I say that because you don't agree with me.)

Sorry, but Ezekiel was writing about events about to happen way back then! He was warning Israel that Assyria would soon come and carry them all away. On the other hand, the first 5 seals are about church history. The Gospel sent out, and then Satan's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. And of course from the beginning, martyrs of the church.  In other words, the connection you see between Ezekiel 5-7 are all imagined. I suggest you read the commentaries. They were written for that very purpose. 

What choice do I have? Shall I believe Jesus Christ, the head of the church? Or shall I depart from what He taught me and believe instead what you are trying to teach? Sorry, but I am going to go with what Jesus has taught me. It fits the scriptures perfectly. It is the scriptures made alive by the Author. 

I agree, Jesus told of many signs before His Rev. 19 coming. And those alive during the 70th week who know the scriptures will read these signs. However, it will not be the church, for the church will spend the 70th week IN HEAVEN. If you wish to remain behind and be one of the "remnant" in Rev. 12, I think God will allow that: He gives us the desires of our heart. 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 

What do you think discipline and sanctification is for, are you denying the power of God in the believer? Heb 12:4-13

James 2 has nothing to do with losing salvation. If you read closer, the topic is Godly righteousness or lack thereof.

Why are you so focused on your sin. Believers are no longer condemned by their sin. There's a higher calling for us now, and that's to preach what Jesus did on the cross for us, not what we can do for ourselves. Preach the Glory of God, not the glory of man.

 

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-27 are actually a cross reference for the crucifixion of Christ and is using metaphorical language to describe the maturity of believers in Christ. Not many understand that Heb 6 thought process actually begins at Heb 5:11.

 

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the (mature), who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

 

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to (maturity), not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

 

This has nothing to do with losing salvation, less one believes God throws believers into hell for lack of maturity, which is on the borderline of insanity. Non-osas says to repent of your sin while OSAS says to believe in the finished work of the cross and fully surrender to Jesus Christ. How can you fully surrender when you're still condemned through sin. God bless.

It is a fact and truth of scripture: God's plan for those who are born again is to live a righteous life - and to put away sin.  Yet, so many who are born again never make any attempt to put away sin.  There are teachers today that teach 1 John 1:9 is for sinners! I have read what they have written, that they would be embarrassed to confess their sin before Christ.  The truth is, 1 John 1:9 is for BELIEVERS!  Of course I believe God has given the believer POWER to conquer sin in their life. But yet, John tells us we sin, and if we say we don't, we are a liar.

I am not focused on sin, I am focuses on His righteousness! But I have to remind my body of that continually. I long for a resurrection body! But until then, my fleshly body gives me the right to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in what He would have me do. Once my body dies, I my work on earth will be done until the resurrection. 

You can take Hebrews 6 any way you desire. But the words remain the same: it is impossible.....and this is GOD talking!  It was GOD talking when He said that if we don't forgive, HE, GOD, won't forgive. If you don't believe His words, then we will let time answer this for us. 

Did you ever notice that God also said thieves won't make it to heaven? Did you know that some born again people are thieves? Or do you say, no, they are born again but just steal! If someone has a lifestyle of stealing, they are a thief and not qualified for heaven. That is HIS word, not mine. 

God said the very same thing about fornicators: they will not make it to heaven. Yet, fornication is a lifestyle of some believers! They are deceiving themselves if they imagine they are qualified for heaven. 

God said the same thing about liars. Need I go on?

Once someone is born again, God expects them to PUT AWAY sin. 

In the end, the same God that authored what Paul wrote about what can separate us from the love of God - also wrote that God will not forgive until WE forgive. We have no right to cherry pick scriptures and only believe the ones we like! 

I will say it again, because it is scripture: if ANY born again believer had a lifestyle of fornication, of lying, or stealing, or of unforgiveness - and they are not repenting of said sins, they are going to be shocked when they are left behind when Jesus comes for His own. 

Remember what Jesus said: are we a doer of His word, or are we a hearer only? The house of hearers only will come crashing down! Jesus expects us to be a DOER of His word!

"faith without works" is a principle to live by! Just believing is not enough! No even enough to get born again. We must add action to our faith even to get born again. And this principle works for everything we will ever get from heaven. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by iamlamad

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is a fact and truth of scripture: God's plan for those who are born again is to live a righteous life - and to put away sin.  Yet, so many who are born again never make any attempt to put away sin.  There are teachers today that teach 1 John 1:9 is for sinners! I have read what they have written, that they would be embarrassed to confess their sin before Christ.  The truth is, 1 John 1:9 is for BELIEVERS!  Of course I believe God has given the believer POWER to conquer sin in their life. But yet, John tells us we sin, and if we say we don't, we are a liar.

I am not focused on sin, I am focuses on His righteousness! But I have to remind my body of that continually. I long for a resurrection body! But until then, my fleshly body gives me the right to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in what He would have me do. Once my body dies, I my work on earth will be done until the resurrection. 

You can take Hebrews 6 any way you desire. But the words remain the same: it is impossible.....and this is GOD talking!  It was GOD talking when He said that if we don't forgive, HE, GOD, won't forgive. If you don't believe His words, then we will let time answer this for us. 

Did you ever notice that God also said thieves won't make it to heaven? Did you know that some born again people are thieves? Or do you say, no, they are born again but just steal! If someone has a lifestyle of stealing, they are a thief and not qualified for heaven. That is HIS word, not mine. 

God said the very same thing about fornicators: they will not make it to heaven. Yet, fornication is a lifestyle of some believers! They are deceiving themselves if they imagine they are qualified for heaven. 

God said the same thing about liars. Need I go on?

Once someone is born again, God expects them to PUT AWAY sin. 

In the end, the same God that authored what Paul wrote about what can separate us from the love of God - also wrote that God will not forgive until WE forgive. We have no right to cherry pick scriptures and only believe the ones we like! 

I will say it again, because it is scripture: if ANY born again believer had a lifestyle of fornication, of lying, or stealing, or of unforgiveness - and they are not repenting of said sins, they are going to be shocked when they are left behind when Jesus comes for His own. 

Remember what Jesus said: are we a doer of His word, or are we a hearer only? The house of hearers only will come crashing down! Jesus expects us to be a DOER of His word!

"faith without works" is a principle to live by! Just believing is not enough! No even enough to get born again. We must add action to our faith even to get born again. And this principle works for everything we will ever get from heaven. 

The world is trying to save themselves by entering through the wrong doors and their works. Somebody should tell them that there's only one door to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ himself. He IS the gate to salvation and eternal life, John 10. 

What is Jesus going to say to those trying to enter the kingdom through their works? 

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless

[other one]

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." 
NASB
 

And here's some folks without works that went to hell.....      and some that did have good works that went to heaven......

I think it is dangerous to tell people that works doesn't save you in any way that suggests that one does not have to have any works at all and still get to heaven..

 

If one professes Jesus as Lord but does not do the things Jesus told us which some consider works, they have simply made themselves liars instead of followers and condemned themselves.

[iamlamad]

19 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The world is trying to save themselves by entering through the wrong doors and their works. Somebody should tell them that there's only one door to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ himself. He IS the gate to salvation and eternal life, John 10. 

What is Jesus going to say to those trying to enter the kingdom through their works? 

Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless

Absolutely right: only ONE door and that is Jesus Christ: He IS the door! 

You are confused: we are not talking about entering in through works. FAITH in the finished work of Jesus is the ONLY way in. 

What we are talking about is people trying to CON God. It will not work!

Edited September 13, 2018 by iamlamad

[Heb 13:8]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Absolutely right: only ONE door and that is Jesus Christ: He IS the door! 

You are confused: we are not talking about entering in through works. FAITH in the finished work of Jesus is the ONLY way it. 

What we are talking about is people trying to CON God. It will not work!

iam, yes you are talking about entering through works if you're adding hell to your doctrine. what you're saying is Jesus + forgiving others = keeping your salvation secure. If you don't forgive Tuesday and you die Thursday you're going to hell. That's false. In reality, Jesus paid the sin penalty for past, present, future sins, including not forgiving on Tuesday. ?

It's a silly doctrine because you pick out certain sins that qualify for loss of salvation like unforgiveness. What about the 100 other sins you commit in your thoughts and actions every day. Are those included too? You would have to repent every minute of every day. You're right, you can't CON God. God knows who are truly born again and who are the religious. Jesus + 0 = salvation. God bless.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Heb 13:8