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SAVED OR NOT SAVED


Alex2165

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SAVED OR NOT SAVED.

 

This is the most discussed topic in Baptist churches, and generally among Christians. Of course everybody wanting to be saved, and assumes that is saved. But no one pay attention and give good thoughts that everything what the Lord GOD ever promised and said is conditional and required certain attitude and strong will of the soul.

 

On our part, there are not in position to impose our conditions under which we can deal with the Lord. Our faith, dedication, and love for the Lord are must be unconditional, and everything whatever relate to our worship, service, work, and life in the Lord are all unconditional elements, purely based on love and faith for our GOD.

 

And so, if all Lord’s promises are conditional, and they are, up to the last one, and so is His Self-sacrifice and His forgiveness, and His salvation, all of them, are all conditional.

 

Despite the fact that all general slogans and terminologies of the Bible proclaim Sacrifice of Christ and salvation as “free gift” and in many other variations like: “Believe and be saved”, “We saved by the Mercy of GOD”, “Salvation is the free Gift”, “We saved by the name of Christ”, “Saved through the Grace of Christ”, and so on, they are all designed to give only very general idea indicating that only through Jesus Christ, through His Sacrifice, we are truly saved, but these are only general terminologies. Behind every general terminology always stand conditions, requirements, regulations, and obligations.

 

Bible includes all sorts of conditions, obligations, duties, requirements, and responsibilities, in order to achieve salvation, because according to all those requirements, salvation cannot be achieve without repentance, change of behavior, change of life, and without forgiveness from GOD. And for those who do not follow this conditional and required pattern and order of things as it often described in the Bible, on such people the Sacrifice and the Blood of Christ have no effect.

 

While many hypocrites, very naïve folks, and people without understanding and knowledge of the Bible claimed that they are already saved, and even know when they are had been saved, they claimed this nonsense without any slightest idea that the Sacrifice of Christ actually means. By believing only in general slogans, because what the Lord GOD said so concerning salvation, they think that it applies to all who are worthy and who are not, ignoring and missing one important fact that only few out of many are truly worthy and deserved the Lord’s Sacrifice, and also His forgiveness, and His salvation.

 

The road to salvation is not easy and is not based on the promise of GOD alone because they are all conditional, but depends on the conditions and requirements that go with salvation as its undetached part. Example of how people achieve forgiveness and salvation from GOD are many in the Bible, and they are different from one another, which means that each and every one of us has his/her own way, route, and path of achieving the goal of salvation, and such path is not the same for everyone.

 

Fear of the Lord based on the Word of GOD is required for the Salvation of the soul.

 

Psalms 85.9 (of Asaph)

9.Surely His salvation is at hand for those who fear Him that His glory may dwell in our land.

 

To Love the Lord by obeying Him is required for the Salvation of the soul.

 

Psalms 91.14

14.”Those who love Me I will deliver. I will protect those who know My name.

 

Maintain Justice and do what is Right, keep the Sabbath, and refrain from doing Evil, all these are required for the Salvation of the soul.

 

Isaiah 56.1-2

1.Thus says the Lord: Maintain Justice and do what is Right, soon My salvation will come and My deliverance be revealed.

2.Happy is the mortal who does this, the one who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it, and refrains from doing any Evil.

 

Seek the Lord by studying and obeying His Commandments, seek His Righteousness, and seek own humility, in order to avoid the wrath of the Lord and be saved.

 

Zephaniah 2.3

3.Seek the Lord all you humble of the land who do His commands, seek righteousness, seek humility, perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the Lord's wrath.

 

Philippians 2.12-18

12.So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

13.for, it is GOD Who is at work in you, both, to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 

For some people conditions are much more extreme in order to be saved.

 

Matthew 19.29

29.”And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for My name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life.”

 

Luke 18.29-30

29.And He said to them, “Truly I tell you, there is no one who was left house or wife or brother or parents or children for the sake of the Kingdom of GOD,

30.who will not get back very much more in this age and in the age to come, eternal life

 

Obedience to GOD as one of the important requirements of Salvation.

 

To Hebrews 5.9

9.and having been made perfect He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him,

 

 

Matthew 7.13-14.21

13.”Enter through the narrow gate, the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.

14.The gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

21.Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in Heaven.”

 

And here I presented only few out many identical and similar passages of the Bible that cannot be ignored. And of course the conversation between Jesus and young rich man also cannot be ignored or overlooked. When young rich man asked Jesus what he has to do in order to inherit eternal life, Jesus gave him only 6 statutes out of 10 Commandment, and when young man said that he had done all of them from his youth, Jesus did not argued with him about it, because young man told Him the truth, and Jesus knew it and changed the subject. So this is clearly revealed that beside all mentioned above statements about salvation, for some people salvation comes in form of only 10 statutes from 10 Commandments, and nothing else.

 

Mark 10.17.19

17.And as He was setting out on journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and began asking Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" (Matthew 19.16-30) (Luke 18.18-30) (Similar question was asked in Luke 10.25)

19.You know the Commandments: Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness (Exodus 20.13-16) (Deuteronomy 5.17-20), do not defraud, honor your father and mother." (Exodus 20.12) (Deuteronomy 5.16)

(Verse 19. Commandments of the Lord give Life: (Leviticus 18.5) (Deuteronomy 8.3) (Nehemiah 9.29) (Psalm 119.93) (Ezekiel 20.11.13) (Matthew 4.4, 19.17) (Mark 10.19) (Luke 4.4, 10.25-28, 18.18-30) (John 12.49-50)

20.And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up."

 

Interesting that Jesus did not told young man that only My Sacrifice will save you, or wait until I will be crucified, but only 6 commandments out of 10 was enough for this young man to be saved!

 

So, all general slogans and general promises of salvation are right where it said that believing in GOD a man will be saved, no doubt about, but general slogan alone does not save a single soul without all those requirements, obligations, and conditions mentioned above that go together with the general promise. For example, GOD promised Israelites the land of Canaan, but far not all of them entered the land, and even such people as Moses and Aaron did not enter it, and we know why.

 

Salvation come in many different forms and ways, and even when  some is given to Devil for suffering, just to save his or her soul!

 

First Corinthians 5.1.5

1.It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of kind that is not found even among pagans, a man is living with his father’s wife.

5.you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit mat be saved in the day of the Lord.

 

In order to understand the salvation, one must also understand what means Jesus as the Guilt Sacrifice. His Sacrifice means literally just like any other guilt (sin) sacrifice ever presented to the Lord for forgiveness of sins (Isaiah 53.10) (Romans 8.3) (Ephesians 5.2) (1John 4.10).

And those who do not understand the Old Testament and have no sufficient knowledge of the Scriptures, they do not understand what the Guilt Sacrifice really means.

 

It is not the guilt sacrifices that forgives and saves the soul of the person, but only One to Whom a sacrifice was presented. Sacrifice is just a presentation, a gift, an offering, and nothing more, sacrifice alone does not save any one, because the power of forgiveness and salvation lies in One Who receives the sacrifice. This means that a person shall be worthy of the Sacrifice of Christ as it described in all passages above,  in order to present such Sacrifice to GOD.

 

But if a person do live up to the standards and conditions and regulations established by GOD, and he or she is unworthy in the eyes of the Lord, the Sacrifice of Christ and His Holy Blood do not ascend to the Lord on behalf of such unworthy person, no matter how much he or she may pray.

 

Just like every Hebrew who presented appropriate animals to the Lord for his sins has to be ritually and spiritually clean, and so everyone who present Jesus Christ to the Lord for own sins has to be spiritually clean, because GOD Father will never except Sacrifice of His Son from anyone who is not worthy of His Son’s Blood and death.

 

And so those who claim to be saved, certainly jumping ahead of time, and do not examine their own worthiness to GOD. They foolishly declaring that they are already saved, creating for themselves illusion of their own salvation based on general terminology of the Bible, and already reserved for themselves a seat in Heaven without even knowing and by passing the opinion and decision of GOD concerning their own salvation. In other words, they already saved themselves without decision of the Lord!

 

And many churches full of such fools, particularly Baptist churches, which teach that you have to know you salvation if you are really saved, and if a person does not convince itself that he or she is saved, according to all those liars who preach and teach such delusion, a person is not saved.

 

And I know why they teach such thing, to please and to reassure people about their salvation and make them believe that they are saved, in order to take control over them and over their finances, and keep them in the church as long as possible.

 

James 2.19

19.”You believe that GOD is One, you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder.”

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Titus 3:5-7 

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

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Rom 4:3  WEB For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Rom 4:4  Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed.

Rom 4:5  But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Rom 4:6  Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works,

Rom 4:7  “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered.  Rom 4:8  Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin.”

 

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To Yowm.

 

You wrote: “His promises are unconditional.”

Show me one.

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1 hour ago, Alex2165 said:

only few out of many are truly worthy and deserved the Lord’s Sacrifice, and also His forgiveness, and His salvation.

 

 

Grace means undeserved favor.  We are saved by grace through faith.  The only person ever worthy of salvation was Jesus.  He was without sin.  None of the rest of us meets God's requirement of perfection.

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Eph 2:8  WEB for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:9  not of works, that no one would boast.

1Pe 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1Pe 1:4  to an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance that doesn’t fade away, reserved in Heaven for you, 1Pe 1:5  who by the power of God are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Pe 1:6  Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been put to grief in various trials, 1Pe 1:7  that the proof of your faith, which is more precious than gold that perishes even though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ— 1Pe 1:8  whom not having known you love; in whom, though now you don’t see him, yet believing, you rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory— 1Pe 1:9  receiving the result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

 

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21 minutes ago, Alex2165 said:

To Yowm.

 

 

You wrote: “His promises are unconditional.”

Show me one.

His promise to abraham to give the land to abraham and his descendents. To increase his descendents to the number of stars in the sky, sand on the earth. 

For instance, Genesis 15

4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him saying, This one shall not be your heir. But he that shall come forth out of your own bowels shall be your heir.
5 And He brought him outside and said, Look now toward the heavens and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He said to him, So shall your seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD. And He counted it to him for righteousness.
7 ¶ And He said to him, I am the LORD that brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give you this land to inherit it.

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Gen 15:1  After these things Yahweh’s word came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Don’t be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.”

Gen 15:2  Abram said, “Lord Yahweh, what will you give me, since I go childless, and he who will inherit my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?”

Gen 15:3  Abram said, “Behold, you have given no children to me: and, behold, one born in my house is my heir.”

Gen 15:4  Behold, Yahweh’s word came to him, saying, “This man will not be your heir, but he who will come out of your own body will be your heir.”

Gen 15:5  Yahweh brought him outside, and said, “Look now toward the sky, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” He said to Abram, “So will your offspring be.”

Gen 15:6  He believed in Yahweh, who credited it to him for righteousness.

Gen 15:7  He said to Abram, “I am Yahweh who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give you this land to inherit it.”

Gen 15:8  He said, “Lord Yahweh, how will I know that I will inherit it?”

Gen 15:9  He said to him, “Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.”

Gen 15:10  He brought him all these, and divided them in the middle, and laid each half opposite the other; but he didn’t divide the birds.

Gen 15:11  The birds of prey came down on the carcasses, and Abram drove them away.

Gen 15:12  When the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. Now terror and great darkness fell on him.

Gen 15:13  He said to Abram, “Know for sure that your offspring will live as foreigners in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them. They will afflict them four hundred years.

Gen 15:14  I will also judge that nation, whom they will serve. Afterward they will come out with great wealth;

Gen 15:15  but you will go to your fathers in peace. You will be buried at a good old age.

Gen 15:16  In the fourth generation they will come here again, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet full.”

Gen 15:17  It came to pass that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a smoking furnace and a flaming torch passed between these pieces.

Gen 15:18  In that day Yahweh made a covenant with Abram, saying, “I have given this land to your offspring, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates:

 

God made the covenant with Himself.  Abraham was asleep so he was unable to walk between the pieces with God to finalize the covenant.  

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We are saved by grace alone. Works are a part sactification. Which is the life given us at the time we are saved.

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To Yowm

 

This is exactly that I have expecting from you, you did not answer my question Yowm. Just like I pointed out in the beginning of my first post that many people prefer general terminology in order to convince themselves that they are saved, and at the same time ignoring conditions on which the general terminology is based, you done exactly as I described it.

 

Romans 5.8-11 reveal only basis on which salvation is based, on Death and Blood of Jesus Christ Who died for all without exception, but it does not mean that everybody will be saved. Again, this is just a general description of how salvation works, and is also COMPLETELY CONDITIONAL!

 

1Corinthians 11.26-32

26.As often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death, until He comes.

27.Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the Body and the Blood of the Lord.

28.But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

29.He who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge (properly understand) the Body (the Body of Christ) rightly.

30.For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. (sleep - KSB, Gideons, "and a number died" - NRSV, GNB, Russian)

31.But if we judged ourselves rightly, we should not be judged (judged by GOD).

32.But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord, in order that we may not be condemned along with the world.

 

Take a closer look Yowm at the condition applied in 1Corinthians. The CONDITION is to be worthy of the Body and Blood of Christ, means to be spiritually and morally clean according to the Statutes of GOD.

 

If people are not spiritually and morally clean, they became GUILTY against Body and Blood of Christ under any CONDITIONS, and because of it: “many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep” means dying.

 

So, the point is that Death and Blood of Christ do not cover all automatically without exception, but require CONDITION under which it will work only for those who are spiritually and morally clean before GOD and obey Him.

 

Obedience to the Lord is one of the major CONDITIONS out of many to be acceptable by GOD.

 

Proverbs 28.9

9.When one will not listen to the Law, even one's prayers are an abomination.

 

Absolutely everything that GOD ever presented is CONDITIONAL, and if a person

does not obey the Laws of GOD, the Death of Christ and His Blood would not help him at all and would have no effect on him, and worst of all, even his prayer will be repugnant and abomination to the Lord!

 

To Sojourner.

 

You wrote that you have two for me, sir, with all due respect, you have nothing for me. You done the same thing as Yowm did, you gave me just general terminology and no concrete verse or statement that will prove that something in GOD’S Statutes is unconditional.

 

You randomly choose verses of the Bible that which even not slightly relate to the subject of our discussion. Same tactic usually done by those who are not able to give correct answer on the question asked, and instead trying to come up with anything or make something up, in order to confuse and to avoid straight and honest answer.

 

According to that you wrote, of course, GOD will never desert and forsake UNDER CONDITION those who love and obey Him, but He certainly will desert and forsake those who despise and disobey Him.

 

Deuteronomy 8.20

Punishment for disobedience

20.Like the nations that the Lord is destroying before you so shall you perish, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord, your GOD.” (CONDITION HERE IS OBEDIENCE,  without this CONDITION all will perish).

 

John 3.36

From author

36.Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure GOD’S wrath.

 

To Ephesians 5.6

6.Let no one deceive you with empty words, because of these things the wrath of GOD comes on those who are disobedient.

 

Second Thessalonians 1.7-8

7.and to give relief to the afflicted as well as for us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels,

8.in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know GOD and on those who do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus.

 

To Hebrews 4.6

Salvation’s door is still open but many did not enter because of disobedience to the Lord 6.Since therefore it remains open for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the Good News failed to enter, because of disobedience,

 

First Peter 4.17-18

17.The time has come for judgment to begin with the household of GOD, if it begins with us, what will be the end for those who do not obey the Gospel of GOD?

 

18.And: ‘If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinners?’ (Proverbs 11.31)

 

I found so many identical verses that I cannot possibly write them here. See also (Romans 5.19).

 

To Willa

Thank you very much to prove my point concerning CONDITIONS of the general terminologies!

 

First of all, according to that you wrote, I see that Grace of GOD revealed for us not in His complete forgiveness and salvation to all without exception, but His Grace revealed to us in His Sacrificial Lamb Jesus Christ Whom He gave to us as our Sacrifice to Him.

 

Because without giving sacrifice to GOD there is no forgiveness or salvation. Each time we pray to GOD because of our sins we offering Jesus as our Sacrificial Lamb to Him. We, as humanity, crucified Him, Jesus Christ, and by such action we gave to GOD Father the most precious Sacrifice ever, Jesus Christ for forgiveness of our sins. That is the Grace of GOD.

 

Second, you wrote: “We are saved by Grace (Jesus Christ) through faith.”

 

Thank you very much, excellent point Willa! Words “through faith” describe CONDITION which indicates that without Faith we cannot be forgiven and be saved. Faith is another CONTION beside OBEDIENCE to the Lord, without which we cannot receive forgiveness nor salvation.

 

But for the rest of you I do not want go any further, you all prove nothing and gave me only general slogans of the Bible and nothing else, because you have nothing to say and cannot find anything that would prove your point of view.

 

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