Fidei Defensor Posted July 26, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2018 I frankly believe that one of the most convulted aspects of Christian life is managing money. We are told by the Lord Jesus Christ, “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money (Mammon).” Our Lord goes on to affirm the dangers of money: “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy,and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven,where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also,” (Matthew 6:19-21) ” but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful,” (Mark 4:19) and the Apostle Paul backs this up, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” (1 Timothy 6:10) but then the paradox: ” tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you property of your own? No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money,” (Luke 16:9-13) and, ”After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene)from whom seven demons had come out;3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means (funds),” (Luke 8:1-3) “Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God's people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia,” (1 Corinthians 16:1) ”All the believers continued together in close fellowship and shared their belongings with one another.,” (Acts 2:44) ”Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: "Those unwilling to work will not get to eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10). How do we resolve this paradox? One minute we are told not to love money or store up treasures on earth, the next you should make rich friends and handle money well? Now one could make the argument that “the love of money is the root of all evil,” but then I ask you how do you not love money when it is part of a need to live: eat and drink. How also are you not corrupted by it when money and merchandizing was invented by Satan (Ezekiel 28:16)? I am asking in earnest for opinions, views, and resolutions for how to manage money but not serve Mammon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listener24 Posted July 28, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 650 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Great question. I wish I had a perfect answer, but I haven't. I think a first step would be, when there are money, try always to think how to use them to help people and spread the Gospel. Does buying a bigger house help people or spread the Gospel? No. Does buying a brand new shiny car help people or spread the Gospel? Nope. Does buying luxury clothes help people or spread the Gospel? No. If in our heart and soul we have those 2 desires, help people and spread the Gospel, I think we'll definitely make a step closer to what the Scriptures teach. I think that having this clear goal, and be 100% undivided about it (pure in heart) or at least desire to become it, will help us balancing our choices, as long as we keep a close relationship with God and the Scriptures. Edited July 28, 2018 by listener24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 Thanks for commenting listen24. I agree that we should use our funds to support the evangelion (Gospel). However, I do think we can have nice things because Paul speaks against asceticism, “hese have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and false humility and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.” (Colossians 2:23). It is difficult to not worship Mammon on one side of the spectrum and become a Slave of Lady Poverty on the other. I appreciTe your input, it helwps the discussion come along. I am seeking answers, so please keep adding more food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckle Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/21/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2018 On 7/26/2018 at 12:46 PM, Fidei Defensor said: I frankly believe that one of the most convulted aspects of Christian life is managing money. We are told by the Lord Jesus Christ, “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money (Mammon).” Our Lord goes on to affirm the dangers of money: “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy,and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven,where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also,” (Matthew 6:19-21) ” but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful,” (Mark 4:19) and the Apostle Paul backs this up, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” (1 Timothy 6:10) but then the paradox: ” tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you property of your own? No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money,” (Luke 16:9-13) Firstly this is not a paradox, these verses are not disagreeing with each other. You are not including the context of the passage in Luke. The passage is about a shrewd manager who when he was caught wasting his master's possessions lowered the debts of some of the people that owed his master money so that he would have a place to go when he was fired. The verse before, " The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light," tells us not to be shrewd like this guy. Then it follows with verse 9 which adds the idea of us not holding onto our wealth but spending it on people not shrewdly but generously. The love of money means you keep it for yourself, you pursue it above all else, you use it shrewdly, and if you give it away it is only in your best interest (usually as a tax break). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Buckle said: Firstly this is not a paradox, these verses are not disagreeing with each other. You are not including the context of the passage in Luke. The passage is about a shrewd manager who when he was caught wasting his master's possessions lowered the debts of some of the people that owed his master money so that he would have a place to go when he was fired. The verse before, " The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light," tells us not to be shrewd like this guy. Then it follows with verse 9 which adds the idea of us not holding onto our wealth but spending it on people not shrewdly but generously. The love of money means you keep it for yourself, you pursue it above all else, you use it shrewdly, and if you give it away it is only in your best interest (usually as a tax break). I wasn’t saying the Scriptures disagree, I am saying that it is complex to stay unstained from Mammon and manage money well and so I cited the two different stances “do not love money,” buy “manage money well.” What is hard is to not be corrupted by money because Satan invented it (Ezekiel 28:1-18). The is a tension in Scriptire to keep us from be imbalanced, “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him,” (Proverbs 26:4), and, “Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.“ (Proverbs 26:5). The tension in scripture is so we don’t go out of balance into some pendulum swing like the prosperity gospel and doctrine (name that mansion and its yours) or the monastic-ascetic Lady poverty path. Instead that we be like Agur Son of Jakeh, “Second, give me neither poverty nor riches! Give me just enough to satisfy my needs.9 For if I grow rich, I may deny you and say, “Who is the Lord?”And if I am too poor, I may steal and thus insult God’s holy name.” (Proverbs 30:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted July 31, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) On 7/26/2018 at 2:46 PM, Fidei Defensor said: I frankly believe that one of the most convulted aspects of Christian life is managing money. We are told by the Lord Jesus Christ, “No one can serve two masters. Money is not the problem. The person who can't handle their love of it, is the issue. So, if this is not an issue, then there is no problem with having a lot of money. Solve yourself, and most of your problems will disappear. "all things in moderation, except for sin". Edited July 31, 2018 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 2, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 7/31/2018 at 10:37 AM, Behold said: Money is not the problem. The person who can't handle their love of it, is the issue. So, if this is not an issue, then there is no problem with having a lot of money. Solve yourself, and most of your problems will disappear. "all things in moderation, except for sin". I am saying that it is complex to stay unstained from Mammon and manage money well and so I cited the two different stances “do not love money,” buy “manage money well.” What is hard is to not be corrupted by money because Satan invented it (Ezekiel 28:1-18). There is a tension in Scriptire to keep us from be imbalanced, “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him,” (Proverbs 26:4), and, “Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.“ (Proverbs 26:5). The tension in scripture is so we don’t go out of balance into some pendulum swing like the prosperity gospel and doctrine (name that mansion and its yours) or the monastic-ascetic Lady poverty path. Instead that we be like Agur Son of Jakeh, “Second, give me neither poverty nor riches! Give me just enough to satisfy my needs.9 For if I grow rich, I may deny you and say, “Who is the Lord?”And if I am too poor, I may steal and thus insult God’s holy name.” (Proverbs 30:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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