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The inspection of Heb 6:4


enoob57

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I give this here to my family for critique:

Heb 6:4

 

 

  )Adu/naton

 JNSNX

impossible

102

 Adúnaton

 

 

 ga\r

 CCX

For

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 gár

 

 

 tou\$

 AMPA

those

3588

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 a%pac

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once

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 fwtisqe/nta$,

 V__APPMPA

who were enlightened,

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 geusame/nou$

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have tasted

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and

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 th=$

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 t¢¡s

 

 

 dwrea=$

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gift,

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of the

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 e)pourani/ou

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heavenly

2032

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 kai\

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and

2532

 kaí

                         

 

 

 

 meto/xou$

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partakers

3353

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genhqe/nta$

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were made

1096

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  pneu/mato$

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Ghost,

4151

 pneúmatos

 

 a(gi/ou

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of the Holy

40

 hagíou

 

The key to understanding this remarkable statement of the writer of Hebrews is this
  )Adu/naton

 JNSNX

impossible

102

 

 Adúnaton

 

Note:

Understanding the primacy of the hermeneutic by this statement below by The Lord

Matt 5:18

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

KJV
The reasoning thus:  God’s Word to the least of mark in degree will be met in perfection>period<

 

 

This moves us to the reasoning:
The ‘for those’ is marked by having the descriptive impossible; thus an identification of the group being spoken to as those having an impossibility…

We now have a adjectival description defined by who of this group that is being spoken to…

[snip]

NT:102a)du/nato$, 2 adynatos  unable, impossible*

NT:101a)dunate/w adynateœ  be powerless, be impossible*

1. The vb. occurs twice in the Gospels (impersonal: a)dunath/sei? for the believer "nothing will be impossible" (Matt 17:20); "for with God nothing will be impossible" (Luke 1:37; cf. Gen 18:14).

Matthew 17:20 (KJV)

[20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

 

 

Luke 1:37 (KJV)
[37] For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Genesis 18:13 (KJV)

[13] And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

[14] Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

 

2.  )Adu/nato$ occurs 10 times in the NT, once in each of the Synoptic Gospels, once in Acts, twice in Paul's letters, and 4 times in Hebrews. It is used 7 times as an adj., 3 times as a subst. (Luke 18:27; Rom 8:3; 15:1). Used actively it means unable; passively it means impossible.

The cripple in Acts 14:8 is powerless in his feet. In response to the question: "Who can be saved?" Jesus replies: Even with the greatest effort human beings cannot achieve it. God's creative grace makes possible the impossible: Mark 10:27; Matt 19:26; Luke 18:27 (cf. use of a)dunate/w in LXX Gen 18:14; Zech 8:6; Job 10:13; 42:2). In Rom 8:3 a)du/nato$ is explained by a)sqenei=n: the law does not possess the power to break sin. According to the Jewish view, by contrast, the words of the Torah are "health unto you," "life unto you" (Mek. Exod. on 15:26). Over against the weakness of the law stands the power of God for salvation (cf. 1:16).

What Rom 8:3 says about the law is applied specifically to the sacrificial cult in Heb 10:4: it is "impossible" for it to "take away sins." The constant repetition of cultic sacrifice shows its powerlessness (v. 11). Without faith no person can, according to the divine plan of salvation, please God (11:6). In the case of apostasy a repetition of repentance is impossible when one has already participated in the proffered salvation (6:4[-6]). The power of God is often emphasized in contrast to human impotency. There is only one thing God cannot do: lie (6:18; cf. Num 23:19; Titus 1:2).

In Romans a)du/nato$ is a designation for some Christians (Rom 15:1; cf. "weak" in faith in 14:1f.), those who ascetically avoid meat and wine as unclean (14:2,14,21) and observe certain days (v. 5). They are not to condemn the others (vv. 3f., 10), and the "strong" are not to despise them, nor force their convictions on them, nor cause them inner conflict and thus bring them to ruin (vv. 3f., 13,15,21). Rather the "strong" are to bear with them (15:1). Both groups are to be of one mind with each other (15:5), for both have the same Lord (14:8ff.).

G. Friedrich 

 

 

 Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

 [snip]



This group cannot be of the regeneration for this simple reason that there exist an impossible for them and that would directly conflict with the descriptive of the regenerated. For that which is born of God carries with The Essence and Person of s/Spirit and nothing is impossible unto them according to Scripture.

 

 

 

 

Edited by enoob57
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If you could please make it clear. What is about the points of discution , is it how do we perceived what "repentance" means in this context? 

And when the individual "falls away", what does he do, that it amounts to falling away? 

And what is included in the meaning of "falling away"? 

Is it because the Savior who died for the forgiveness of the sins for the whole world, is it that he Jesus refuses to accept his repentance, or that the individual refuses to repent from what , the "falling away", and what is the falling away? 

With God everything is possible, why the writer does not considered that aspect, is he telling us not to try to help him in coming to repentance or to leave him to him? Or that he is not lisening to him, and how he would listen to someone else, or what ? 

Or does he suggest that God seized from trying to bring this person back to repentance. 

Does it tell us not to pray for this person, or if we pray , our prayers are against his will. 

Is it that this person does not believe anymore that is forgivable, or that he is lost, or that his sins are to big for forgivness, or Jesus has allready Judge him for good while he still lives,  is that possible? 

And what this scripture has to do from Mathew 5:18, that makes reference to thise who were under the Old Covenant. 

Are we still under the old covenant? 

Has the old covenant pass away? 

If the old covenant has not pass away, then Heaven and Earth has not pass away.

And if the old covenant has pass away, or one iota from the old covenant has pass away, then Heaven and Earth has pass away. 

I hope that you are not or someone else is bother with my post, if you do or someone else is, let me know and I will consider the option to delete it or not.  

Better delete the post voluntarily, than someone comlain because I inquire for clarifications, and explanations. 

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Hebrews 6:4-6 is in context of the rest of the book of Hebrews which is a case to the Jews (Hebrews) that Jesus Christ is enough and He mediated a better Covenant making the old covenant obsolete, “But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises,” (Hebrews 8:3) And “In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13). The people in Hebrews 6:4-6 are those who are Jewish and Gentile Christians that return to the Law, “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace,” (Galatians 5:4), “Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you,” (Galatians 5:3), and “For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.” (Phillipians 3:18, in same chapter as count everything lost but knowing Christ see a Phillipians 3:8, 15). This is why the are re-crucifying Jesus and putting Him up to public shame. They are like those in Acts 15:2-3 who wanted to impose the law on Christians and were rebuked by Peter (Acts 15:4-11). 

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10 hours ago, Yowm said:

For it is impossible to ·bring back again to a changed life [Lrenew again to repentance] those who were once ·in God’s light [enlightened], and ·enjoyed [experienced; Ltasted] ·heaven’s gift [or the heavenly gift; Cperhaps the gift of salvation], and ·shared in [partook of] the Holy Spirit. They ·found out [Ltasted] how good God’s word is, and ·they received [Ltasted] the ·powers [miracles] of ·his new world [the coming age/world]. If they have ·fallen away [committed apostasy], it is impossible to ·bring them back to a changed life again [Lrenew them again to repentance], because they are nailing the Son of God to a cross again and are ·shaming him in front of others [making a public disgrace/exhibition of him]. 6:4-6 EXB

For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,
And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,
If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance—[it is impossible] to bring (AMP)

For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt.(NET)

 

 

What is it that you do not understand, we do not bite and we do not cry. 

Freely you can comment and as Jesus Christ is , so do we in this matter. 

We do not judge anyone by his words, because in Jesus Christ there is continued renewal of mind, the past mind passes away the momment the new is reveal, just like with the covenants, the new is reveal the old is gone, whether we understand that or not. 

Mathew 5:18, is there something hidden in those words of Jesus, or something revealed. 

The Hebrews talks about falling away and mixing the new with the old covenant, 

At the bigining they recieved the new covenant by faith, then they missed the garlic and onions of the old, they could not accept equality with the Gentiles, they wanted to be superior to them, and the only way to do that it was to bring in the geneology of the old, the Lord God of the old covenant, and started calling upon his name as a right. 

They believed in Jesus Christ, but they continiun to do and participate in the old. 

In other words, with faith in Jesus Christ they practice the old, even participating in the celebrations of the unleaven bread the passover , the cleansing ceremonies, even in the attonment.....and so on.

When Jesus had given them instructions not to celebrate the pass over as in the old hope. 

But from now on if they do to do it in his memmory. 

That he is our passover who shed the blood of the new Covenant and in him we have forgiveness of sins. 

Any way that generation has long pass away.

This situation is not around anymore , it was for that generation only. 

And Jesus put an end to it with the destruction of the Temple, they did not get it the first time when he destroy the vail, he had to sent the Romans this time to finish what he starter. 

After teaching them first, that the Temple is not protected, the Romants  did not need only the teachings of Paul for that. 

They also had their own divinators who told them that Paul was saying the truth. 

That the Temple. Is not divinelly protected anymore. 

They were not like Philip, who repented and said to Jesus no more the things of the old.

He Philip said. to Jesus "you are my God and my Lord", 

Philip who upon the death of Jesus on the Cross, went back and was calling upon the Lord God of the old. 

Jesus while spoken to the Jews, he told them " that you may be calling upon the Lord God and you may stand on the first command, and refusing to believe in me, and you do not know and in error you will continiun to believe that your sins are forgiven, but I tell you that you are still in your sins , because the old covenant is pass away. and you do not believe in me.

You must follow the one who will bring in the new covenant. 

As Moses said. As soon as he gave them the old covenant. 

Moses said, this is good till the time God will sent someone else from among you this time to bring the new covenant, not as in the time of Moses when Angels gave you the old covenant. 

This time is not going to be like as in the first time when the Angels gave you the covenant , this time someone from amongs you will give you the new covenant. 

And we see Moses in the mountain, when he came down from Heaven with Elias, that he brought the news from Heaven that Jesus is the one who will bring the new covenant, but he must die first to shed the blood of the new Covenant. 

That's why they could not find the body of Moses, the same way they could not find the body of Elias. 

Because just like Elias God took also Moses into Heaven. 

And as this time , so it was the time of Moses when God told Moses go to the mountain alone,

Because he wanted to keep it a secret from them.

he Jesus told the disciples also to keep it a secret and not to tell anyone. 

And when Jesus stood in the midle of Moses and Elias, in his glory, the disciples show that Jesus was their Lord and their God before he left everything to be born from Mary and enter our world, and be one , just like one of the people of israel that time, borned within the Law. 

The giver of the Law was borned within the Law . 

 

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31 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I give three different translations of the passage in question, and you give me this? Pleeeze.

What is that , that it sounds strange to you. 

Do I have to speak within your understanding. 

Or look fir your agreement. 

All is good , any way.  

God bless...

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On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 11:58 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

What is that , that it sounds strange to you. 

Do I have to speak within your understanding. 

Or look fir your agreement. 

All is good , any way.  

God bless...

The idea of communication is to deliver one's thoughts to another's thoughts to continue in an outcome of thinking to further a subject... however many times you don't do this but place something out in la la land and we cannot connect to the post your commenting on... so how can we continue with you in conversation? God wrote His Word and desires this with us

Isa 1:18

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
KJV


I think His children should desire the same toward one another … don't you?

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1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The idea of communication is to deliver one's thoughts to another's thoughts to continue in an outcome of thinking to further a subject... however many times you don't do this but place something out in la la land and we cannot connect to the post your commenting on... so how can we continue with you in conversation? God wrote His Word and desires this with us

Isa 1:18

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
KJV


I think His children should desire the same toward one another … don't you?

Hello brother enoob57, 

I am not holding something against anyone, and at the same time I am to specific situations. 

I was please to read your input about keeping the line of comunication open and not in an aggressive or threatening manner. 

Back to the issues around your OP.

The proposed of the Heb 6:4, discribes both a general situation and a specific one. 

The general situation in his message is not limited to only the specific event he is heaving in his mind, when he wrote this instruction, but when he says: "they crusified Jesus all over again", he is referring to something specific which he does not discribe it with clarity. 

Unless we were there and the specific events that took place are known to us then we may understand why he wrote it is "adynaton", "to restored someone", to...... 

Careful reading it shows that he did not say that "it is adynaton with God", when he knows that with the involvement of God it is possible. 

Even that statement I made wich is repeated many times in the bible can be easily misconstrue. 

It does not mean that if God does not do it, or does not do it when we ask and the way and time we pray and ask, then we say that it's impossible with him. 

And also he the writer knew that if the rain falls on a hard ground that repels the rain away that does not help to prepared the ground to bring it up to standars to a fertile ground. 

A fertile ground it is not without "weeds", previous knowledge, or not the knowledge to properly process the message .

And then the other instruction "let the weeds to the proper time of their harvest, not by men, but by God. 

Could be that the author may have this kind of general knowledge and he is instructing his disciples to not expect that every time they give the good seed that they will see a harvest.  

Or we may need a word that prepare the ground, a word to deal with the weeds, a word that deals with the quality of the season. 

And all the other elements that hinder and our ways maybe hinder, to expect that we to deal with a fertile ground and witout weeds, and we just want to show a seed and expect to grow and imediadly we want to see the harvest. .....

It adynaton the way we want an imediadly harvest, and if that happens it is because someone else has water , or prepared the ground, 

And or deal with the weeds and so on. 

Back to the Heb6:4, 

It points to the problem that they crusified Jesus all over, what is this? 

Does it mean that some from with The old covenant background, as when Peter first preach to them they accept the message that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, but they could not understand with clarity and they somehow misconstrue it by implicating the customs of the old. 

The could not see that they were under the eternal foundain of the blood of Jesus Christ when they believe. 

And they may see themselves out of the blood of Jesus Christ when they sin. 

And as in the old covenant when they sin after the attonment they had to sacrifice another sacrifice for the forgiveness of that sin to be restored under the blood of the attonment. 

This could be the situation that is address, we are under the blood of the ATONEMENT of Jesus Crist even when we sin, 

We only need to see our selfs that we are under the blood of Jesus with our sin, which is not counted against us as in the old covenant to removed us out of the blood of the Attonment of Jesus Christ, but we need to confess it to be clean from it. 

Jesus was the sacrifice of the attonment and in the knew covenant we do not need another sacrifice for specific sins, because we remain all the time under the blood of Jesus Attonement. 

If not if we die with uncofessed sin we would be lost, when we are not. 

 

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Mathew 5:18, 

Until Heaven and earth pass away , not one iota from the Law will pass away until all is fulfil. 

God gave a sign to the Priesthood 2.000 years ago in the sircumstances of Zahariah the Priest who had the inherited privilege to enter the Holy of Holies .

God signal that the end of this kind of service is coming to its end. 

God gave his witness that Zahariah was without sin and acceptable to him by entering in his presents with the limited permition to perform a service. 

There is one thing, who is going to continue in the place of the role of Zahariah when Zahariah one day will die, as he was very old, him and his wife , many years past the age of child bearing for both of them. Or just his wife, I cannot taulk for him. 

This was important because this service was inherited, and for the long run as God was promish that the priest will have males even as the first born to be a male, as to continue in the appointed by God in the inherited service of their father in the Temple. 

God had even given them age limitations about when to start and when to finish their duties. 

For the first time, A Priest did not have a child, not a son not even a daughter. 

If the age of retirment of the service in the Temple was 55. Years old , just about, and the minimum requirment for a son to beging his service in the Temple was 30 years old. 

That would mean that the Father Priest had to married at an earlier age if he wanted to be ready to retired, by the age of 55, if not he had to continue in the service till his son had to be of age 30, to inherit the service. 

The people were perplex, the years pass and the promish of God for Zahariah to have a son to continue in the Temple Service was not fullfilled. For a priest to beggin his service in the Temple at 30, and retired at 55, he must already have a son at least five years old at age 30. 

I do not know how old Zahariah lived after the birth of John. 

And how old when John was when he went in the dessert. 

And if Zahariah continue in the service of the Temple after Jonh was born. 

The thing that we know that John at age 30 is found baptizing in the Jordan river, saying his mission was not to inherit the service in the Temple, .

 

 

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In context Hebrews 6 is to those who would go back to the Law for Salvation, “if you think the works of the Law can save you, then you are cut off from Christ, you have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4). The Book of Hebrews like all epistles was meant to be read from beginning to end like an email, not in pieces. The Book of Hebrews is to the Jews, the Gospel articulated to them though useful to Gentiles. The early chapters before Hebrews 6 talk about not trusting in the law and later it proves Jesus is the only priest becaus His sacrifice atones for all time unlike the Levites (Hebrews 10:10-17, Hebrews 9:27). The chapters before and after Hebrews 6 clarify Hebrews 6. 

The reason there is no sacrifice left for Hebrews 6:4-6  is that the person has cut themselves off from Christ by trusting the law again, but James indicates you can be restored after falling away: “My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20) and Jesus said, “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.” (John 10:28-30). 

Edited by Fidei Defensor
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My specific point was that Christians use this as one can loose their salvation.... grammatically I showed that it could not be referring to the children of God...

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