Are our pastors leading us astray?

[Fidei Defensor]

Pastors need to look at two very important parts of Scripture: 

“But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their [a]phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6 They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. 8 But do not be called Rabbi (Pastor would be equivalent today); for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 Do not be called [b]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.” (Matthew 23:5-12). 

”Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” (James 3:1) 

Jesus is going to hold accountable every pastor and teacher who leads people astray or marginalizes and does not help brothers and sister get to their call. 

The Church meeting should look like 1 Corinthians 14:26-49, “

hat then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation.Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.” There is nothing there about one man teaching for hours and everyone being spectators and laity which was invented by Constantine the Great (The History of the Church, Eusebius, Last Chapter, Penguin Publishers). 

[Jaydog1976]

My pastor does a great job presenting the word. I may not agree with everything he teaches but then again I am not going to agree with everyone. 

We have to make sure that we don't generalize and put every pastor under the same label. There are some great pastors out there the love the Lord and teach the word as best they know how . 

As someone above said in the end it isn't going to be the pastor held responsible for your decisions it will be each one of us held accountable before Christ.

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, seems I am always the contrarian when it coms to those lamenting the state of things today. I disagree in that the Holy Spirit has led me to curch after church that embraces the entire Bible not just  a New testament, and ones that teach  the entirety of the Bible even the Bible that Jesus read and quoted. For me there is no "we" there is you and there is me,  each perceiving the sate of things  differently, perhaps both saints in Christ jesus, but definitely having very different experience as result of our own conversation from rebellion to  submission as bond-servants of Jesus. God has led me to multiple strong local bodies of Christ Jesus for my own santification. The demands and the opportunities have been both privilege and duty. I cherish  each local body of Christ where the Holy Spirit has led me.

I guess you don't believe we are in the last days then...?  But if you do believe we are in the last days.......then why can't you see the falling away that has been prophesied to happen, and is happening?

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

I guess you don't believe we are in the last days then...?  But if you do believe we are in the last days.......then why can't you see the falling away that has been prophesied to happen, and is happening?

If you are to be personal in your response then I can only state it is a very bad guess on your part.  The last days have lasted for hundreds  and hundreds of years now. In the further coming of the last days there will be a great awakening  led by the Holy spirit too. All of Israel, to save many, one hundred and forty four thousand of the most blessed born again Jews  all saints in Christ jesus name going about to proclaim Jesus is Lord, just as the eleven elders of the local church God has led me to does today,  along with the many deacons, deaconesses, missionariaries, those gifted and practicing their spiritual gifts as lay persons, all  saints  doing today and every single day all to the Glory of God.

One can proclaim doom  and gloom and lament, and bbe paralyzed by it,or one can get off their laments and serve God as they are being  led, each going into all the world in some fashion, even just down the street or across the household table sharing of Jesus so that many may be presented as mature in our Lord Jesus.

 Hope is certain when it is placed in the Lord Jesus. Be the vestige, the remanent, the runner that runs the entire course, and not of the one's that have faded when the race has been  nearly run it's full course. Be confident in Christ for He as won victory over even the final enemy death:

Jeremiah's Complaint

Righteous are you, O Lord,
    when I complain to you;
    yet I would plead my case before you.
Why does the way of the wicked prosper?
    Why do all who are treacherous thrive?
You plant them, and they take root;
    they grow and produce fruit;
you are near in their mouth
    and far from their heart.
But you, O Lord, know me;
    you see me, and test my heart toward you.
Pull them out like sheep for the slaughter,
    and set them apart for the day of slaughter.
How long will the land mourn
    and the grass of every field wither?
For the evil of those who dwell in it
    the beasts and the birds are swept away,
    because they said, “He will not see our latter end.”

The Lord Answers Jeremiah

“If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you,
    how will you compete with horses?
And if in a safe land you are so trusting,
    what will you do in the thicket of the Jordan?
 For even your brothers and the house of your father,
    even they have dealt treacherously with you;
    they are in full cry after you;
do not believe them,
    though they speak friendly words to you.”

“I have forsaken my house;
    I have abandoned my heritage;
I have given the beloved of my soul
    into the hands of her enemies.
My heritage has become to me
    like a lion in the forest;
she has lifted up her voice against me;
    therefore I hate her.
Is my heritage to me like a hyena's lair?
    Are the birds of prey against her all around?
Go, assemble all the wild beasts;
    bring them to devour.
Many shepherds have destroyed my vineyard;
    they have trampled down my portion;
they have made my pleasant portion
    a desolate wilderness.
They have made it a desolation;
    desolate, it mourns to me.
The whole land is made desolate,
    but no man lays it to heart.
Upon all the bare heights in the desert
    destroyers have come,
for the sword of the Lord devours
    from one end of the land to the other;
    no flesh has peace.
They have sown wheat and have reaped thorns;
    they have tired themselves out but profit nothing.
They shall be ashamed of their harvests
    because of the fierce anger of the Lord.”

 Thus says the Lord concerning all my evil neighbors who touch the heritage that I have given my people Israel to inherit: “Behold, I will pluck them up from their land, and I will pluck up the house of Judah from among them.  And after I have plucked them up, I will again have compassion on them, and I will bring them again each to his heritage and each to his land.  And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, ‘As the Lordlives,’ even as they taught my people to swear by Baal, then they shall be built up in the midst of my people.  But if any nation will not listen, then I will utterly pluck it up and destroy it, declares the Lord.”

 

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Neighbor
corrected poorly written sentence

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

I think when it comes to learning God's Word we all are at fault. Blaming pastors doesn't help, if the people are too lazy to pick up and read the Scriptures and treat them as truly God speaking.

Well said YOWM. Both the pastors and congregation are to blame. Although I think there shouldn’t be caste system of ecclesia and laity, especially since ecclesia actually means “Church, the whole Church.” We can thank Constantine the Not So Great for adding confusion. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Guest shiloh357]

20 hours ago, Gideon said:

Consider: When was the last time you heard a sermon with any sort of a warning, an exhortation, or a rebuke coming from the pulpit of your church? We are living in an age where the gospel message is nothing  but good things, where things like repentance, counting the cost, or hating ones life are deemed unnecessary to those who have come to the deeper understanding of grace. 

You would probably be surprised just how many pastors DO preach on repentance, and Hell and growing in holiness.   Lot's of pastors, all over the country, in small, churches preach on those very things.   Those churches are small because they preach on the very things that many people don't want to hear.   So, they go to other larger mega churches that don't preach on anything remotely resembling repentance from sin, or the reality of Hell. 

Things like repentance don't really sell books, or get you invites to pastors' conferences or large congregations.  Those who are preaching the truth, rarely get any kind of mention at all.  No one is beating down the door to learn about their need to grow in holiness.   But if someone is preaching a 20-week series on, "How to be a Twinkie in a Krispy Kreme World" they show up in droves with their Message Bibles.

But there are lots of faithful pastors out there.  They don't write books, or sell DVD's or drive nice cars and many of them work a secular job 40 hours a week so they don't have to take a salary from the church and they are simply faithful to the message that God has given them to preach.   You don't hear about them, because they don't toot their own horns, but they are out there, more than you think.

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

I think when it comes to learning God's Word we all are at fault. Blaming pastors doesn't help, if the people are too lazy to pick up and read the Scriptures and treat them as truly God speaking.

But Yowm, many are not lazy not at all! Many memorize the word, learning it, practicing it, living it, to  share of it in word and by deed. Many are young, full of energy, vibrant, and doing all that they do to the Glory of God. Praise God for the Holy Spirit turning about so many from sin against God  to the task and privilege of sharing of jesus as our Lord god and personal savior as they go into all the world with the good news the gospel of Christ Jesus.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Neighbor

[walla299]

6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You would probably be surprised just how many pastors DO preach on repentance, and Hell and growing in holiness.   Lot's of pastors, all over the country, in small, churches preach on those very things.   Those churches are small because they preach on the very things that many people don't want to hear.   So, they go to other larger mega churches that don't preach on anything remotely resembling repentance from sin, or the reality of Hell. 

Things like repentance don't really sell books, or get you invites to pastors' conferences or large congregations.  Those who are preaching the truth, rarely get any kind of mention at all.  No one is beating down the door to learn about their need to grow in holiness.   But if someone is preaching a 20-week series on, "How to be a Twinkie in a Krispy Kreme World" they show up in droves with their Message Bibles.

But there are lots of faithful pastors out there.  They don't write books, or sell DVD's or drive nice cars and many of them work a secular job 40 hours a week so they don't have to take a salary from the church and they are simply faithful to the message that God has given them to preach.   You don't hear about them, because they don't toot their own horns, but they are out there, more than you think.

Thank you for posting this. You're right. I know of several small churches in my region where the pastors are "tentmakers" and work a secular job to support their families because the church itself is just too small to pay a salary. Most of these churches are small, but growing. Seems the Lord is giving some a hunger for the Word of God - you just don't find 'em at the mega-church down the road. 

 

[RockyMidnight]

19 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Preach it brother!  ✝️

I am often  baffled how pastors ignore swaths of Scriptures from the woes of Pharisees (Matthew 23, whole chapter) to take up your cross and follow Jesus (Luke 9:23) to the fact we are all a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9-11) and God lives in us (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 4:-5, 1 Corinthians 3:16) to Persecution (John 16:33, Matthew 24:9, 2 Timothy 3:12, Revelation 14:12) to the fact that the Lprd never wanted a building or temple (2 Samuel 7: 1-53, 2 Chronicles  7:1-30, Acts 7:46-51) but has made us His temple (Hebrews 3:6, 1 Timothy 3:15, Ephesians 2:22, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Corinthians 16:19, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 3:9), and that fact we must suffer if we are to share Bis glory (Romans 8:17). 

Add also Matthew 5:20-26 .

Cheers!!! 

[Not me]

It all comes down to ones personal relationship with Christ. If it is growing, one is on course. If not, than there is a problem. 

Let us get to know this one who said “he will never leave or forsake us.” 

To deny self, pick up cross and to follow Christ, and to know what this means by experience. So when all is said and done, we will actually have done this. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Not me