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Are our pastors leading us astray?


Gideon

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39 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You would probably be surprised just how many pastors DO preach on repentance, and Hell and growing in holiness.   Lot's of pastors, all over the country, in small, churches preach on those very things.   Those churches are small because they preach on the very things that many people don't want to hear.   So, they go to other larger mega churches that don't preach on anything remotely resembling repentance from sin, or the reality of Hell. 

Things like repentance don't really sell books, or get you invites to pastors' conferences or large congregations.  Those who are preaching the truth, rarely get any kind of mention at all.  No one is beating down the door to learn about their need to grow in holiness.   But if someone is preaching a 20-week series on, "How to be a Twinkie in a Krispy Kreme World" they show up in droves with their Message Bibles.

But there are lots of faithful pastors out there.  They don't write books, or sell DVD's or drive nice cars and many of them work a secular job 40 hours a week so they don't have to take a salary from the church and they are simply faithful to the message that God has given them to preach.   You don't hear about them, because they don't toot their own horns, but they are out there, more than you think.

Brother Shiloh,  I hope you are correct on this. Certainly, the vast majority of churches has become business models rather than churches, and the pressures many pastors face to keep the bills paid and the books balanced forepces them to keep the masses happy by preaching on “pleasant things”.. Warning against sin is not one of those topics. 

May God encourage all the pastors determined to be faithful servants and truly lead the sheep in their care and rescue the many who have sold out with repentant hearts, who have leaned on the arm of the flesh , preaching a one sided message that will simply not cut it when the coming darkness hits. 

 

Blessings,

Gideon

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9 hours ago, Yowm said:

Yeahhh, right. lol (or should we weep?)

Sorry that many so many  on Christian message boards seem find it  in their experience and heart to lament, when so many are very fully about the business of their master. I am getting pretty old myself, but until very recently even this old geezer was about the business of my savior doing the simple duties of helps. I still have strong desire to get about yet again, body spirit and mind being strong enough to do so.

In the meantime, it is a great great lifting privilege to see the fruit of the planted seeds come to fuller fullfillment of the teaching they have received by many a pastor teacher deacon deaconess and countless encouragements and support by a whole congregation.

Those once very young children and then later accountable saints, now go locally and around the world with the sure and certain knowledge of the good news of our Lord and savior.

It is not a yeah sure lol. It is a certainty, a fruit of the work  of the saints as led by God the Holy Spirit. There need not be all this weeping and gnashing of teeth, instead there only need be a filling of the local body of Christ by the saints, with a generous sharing one with another, plus a determined learning, and a sacrifical giving too,  all as part of the privilege granted each saint by God.  It is a personal marvel  to see, and yes to have been used as a a very very small cog within the works that is the church body of my Lord Jesus. Praise God for his mercy and grace upon us, may He continue to protect and guide His saints as they grow and share, so that many may be found mature in Christ Jesus.

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Guest shiloh357
44 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Brother Shiloh,  I hope you are correct on this. Certainly, the vast majority of churches has become business models rather than churches, and the pressures many pastors face to keep the bills paid and the books balanced forepces them to keep the masses happy by preaching on “pleasant things”.. Warning against sin is not one of those topics. 

I would not say that it counts for the vast majority.  80% of churches in the US have less than 100 people in attendance and they make up most of the churches in the US.  They operate on shoestring budgets.  They don't have the "hooks" in terms of what it takes to draw young, progressives who prefer the the slick, sexy good-looking churches that pretty much get the lion's share of the membership numbers.   And I think that is a good thing, in some respects. I would rather be a part of a small church that is faithful to the Lord than a mega church full of sell-outs who are only interested in building their private empires. 

Warning about sin is what keeps a lot of churches small.  But size and numbers are not accurate indicators of success because if your numbers are due to ear-tickling, it is pretty much futile.   What good are numbers if a church isn't making disciples for Jesus?

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May God encourage all the pastors determined to be faithful servants and truly lead the sheep in their care and rescue the many who have sold out with repentant hearts, who have leaned on the arm of the flesh , preaching a one sided message that will simply not cut it when the coming darkness hits. 

Amen!

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2 hours ago, Not me said:

It all comes down to ones personal relationship with Christ. If it is growing, one is on course. If not, than there is a problem. 

Let us get to know this one who said “he will never leave or forsake us.” 

To deny self, pick up cross and to follow Christ, and to know what this means by experience. So when all is said and done, we will actually have done this. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

Indeed the word know in relation to Jesus is not gnosis (to know about, knowledge) but is ginosko/epignosko (to know in a personal and intimate relationship), “I Count all things lost when compared with the infinite value of knowing (ginosko, epignosko) Jesus, for whom I have discarded all things that O may gain Christ.” (PhillipIans 3:8) 

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I agree that the enemy is doing a great job to deceive people and many preachers are preaching a very watered down gospel, something people like to hear so they don't have to deal with guilt and shame, many churches are more focused of how the music sounds or the preacher is wondering if he looks good to be on a video and is focussed more on himself then God. This ought not to be ,a preacher should be humble  also not trying to work up  people's feelings  but to bring his message with much reverence  for God. 

But then on the other hand if we're born again,really born again,we do have to be careful not to go back to the law and try to be good in all we do as those are works ,when Jesus died for us on the cross,He set us free from bondage,Paul warned for those things too.

Its up to us Christians to read your Bible and worship God when you go to church,don't expect the preacher to work out your salvation,our gatherings together should be to lift the name of Jesus high,to remember His death and resurrection and to preach the gospel and call sin  in and out season.

 

The Cost of Speaking the Truth

There is a cost to speaking the truth. This realization came nearly 10-years ago when I was asked to speak at the annual conference for the American Baptist...unaware that they were about to divide over ordaining those who embrace the homosexual lifestyle.

Within minutes of beginning my message, people began to leave the large auditorium. Although it was clear that I had struck a nerve, the clearest message came when a woman approached the platform and attempted to disrupt the service. I told her that I would be happy to talk with her after the service.

Afterwards, a large line of people waited to talk to me. I will never forget the very angry 12-year old girl. My heart sank when she said, “I hate everything you had to say. It was mean and hateful!” Though shocked by her comment, I was moved with compassion for such a young life filled with passion for the wrong things. Others asked if I ever received death threats.

As I boarded the plane, I was perplexed and confused. I prayed, “Lord, what’s wrong. I’m simply speaking Your word and genuinely loving these people.” The words of Titus Brandsma (martyred at Dachau under Hitler) began to ring true, “Those who want to win the world for Christ must have the courage to come into conflict with it.”

I buckled my seat, anxious to head for the familiar comfort of home...but I knew that my life had made a turn. This gospel of love had, ironically, become a message of hate to those who oppose it: “A time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God” (John 16:2).

Speaking the truth was going to cost me (and it will cost you). I knew that my kids would someday be old enough to ask why the hate mail, mean remarks, indignant looks...while most feedback is very encouraging, those who are upset will often stop at nothing to get their point across.

Do I enjoy this? That goes without answer. Although many applaud boldness, if the truth be told, life would be much easier if I took a secular job and avoided controversy. But I cannot. God radically changed my life by the power of His Spirit through His truth: “It’s like a fire in my bones! I am worn out trying to hold it in! I can’t do it!” (Jeremiah 20:9).

One of my great concerns is for the pulpits of America: many are exchanging truth for tolerance, boldness for balance, and conviction for cowardliness. We don’t want to offended lest we lose our audience. But truth is controversial—its convicts and challenges. We are not to seek the applause of men but the applause of God. The pulpit inevitably sets the tone of the religious climate of the nation. The lukewarm, sex-saturated culture simply reflects the lack of conviction in the pulpit as well as the pew. Granted, there are many wonderful pastors and churches—I appreciate their ministry, but, as a whole, the church has drifted off course.

The only difference between believers and unbelievers is that believers are simply forgiven—they have embraced God’s gracious gift of forgiveness, wholeness, and restoration through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Because of the cross, sin has been conquered and atoned for (cf. Romans 6). “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

My goal is to simply share God’s gracious gift. If being labeled narrow-minded, legalistic, judgmental, arrogant, and intolerant is the cost of speaking the truth in love, so be it. In 2 Timothy 4:1-2, Paul instructs Timothy, “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.”

Paul is saying to preach the difficult truths as well as the joyful ones; preach the cross and the new life; preach hell and preach heaven; preach damnation and preach salvation; preach sin and preach grace; preach wrath and preach love; preach judgment and preach mercy; preach obedience and preach forgiveness; preach that God “is love,” but don’t forget that God is just. It is the love of God that compels us to share all of His truth.

Paul continues, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths” (2 Tim. 4:3-4). This should sound an alarm in the the heart of every preacher, pastor, and teacher to seriously reevaluate their ministry—are we encouraging sin by not warning? If so, we’re heading down a dangerous path. A.W. Tozer reminds us that we’ll stand to be judged someday: “That makes me both love Him and fear Him! I love Him because He is my Savior, and I fear Him because He is my Judge.” We must speak the truth in love despite the cost. Pastor Shane Idleman

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23 hours ago, Gideon said:

Consider: When was the last time you heard a sermon with any sort of a warning, an exhortation, or a rebuke coming from the pulpit of your church? We are living in an age where the gospel message is nothing  but good things, where things like repentance, counting the cost, or hating ones life are deemed unnecessary to those who have come to the deeper understanding of grace.

 

"When was the last time you heard a sermon with any sort of a warning, an exhortation, or a rebuke coming from the pulpit of your church"

At our small church, every week, every year, since he has been pastor. Repentance. Actually, sometimes too much for me and would appreciate more balance. A little more encouragement time to time. I'm the sheep, he has the responsibility of shepherd. I trust him, and if I didn't, I wouldn't stay. I encourage him. Cannot imagine the impossible task he has serving God, and all his dumb sheep.  I would never blame him for my failure of missing God's mark.

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24 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed the word know in relation to Jesus is not gnosis (to know about, knowledge) but is ginosko/epignosko (to know in a personal and intimate relationship), “I Count all things lost when compared with the infinite value of knowing (ginosko, epignosko) Jesus, for whom I have discarded all things that O may gain Christ.” (PhillipIans 3:8) 

Yes, it is true. To personally “know” and be “known” by our Creator is a great and glorious thing. To understand what our salvation in Christ consists of. Though it is true this is a growning into. As long as we are growing into, and today we know Him a little more than we did yesterday, and tomorrow a little more than today. Blessing to you my fellow laborer. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

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4 minutes ago, Not me said:

Yes, it is true. To personally “know” and be “known” by our Creator is a great and glorious thing. To understand what our salvation in Christ consists of. Though it is true this is a growning into. As long as we are growing into, and today we know Him a little more than we did yesterday, and tomorrow a little more than today. Blessing to you my fellow laborer. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

Indeed, to not know (ginosko) Jesus is to ignore He lives in us, “All who confess that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God.” (1 John 4:15). To not want to know Jesus in this personal way flies in face of the whole point, God already knows you and He lives in you and you live in Him and  He died on the cross to destroy the gulf of sin and eternal death so we could be with Him and know Him forever, “I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.” (Revelation 22:22-24)

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5 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed, to not know (ginosko) Jesus is to ignore He lives in us, “All who confess that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God.” (1 John 4:15). To not want to know Jesus in this personal way flies in face of the whole point, God already knows you and He lives in you and you live in Him and  He died on the cross to destroy the gulf of sin and eternal death so we could be with Him and know Him forever, “I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.” (Revelation 22:22-24)

Yes, to understand even to a small degree what it means when scripture says “Christ our life”. 

To know that when “Christ died we died” is such a liberating truth. It is the only way given to man to overcome the “old man and his deeds”

Blessed are those than see this truth. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

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Mark 1.3

3.The voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."

(Isaiah 40.3-4) (Malachi 3.1, 4.5) (Matthew 3.1-3-17, 11.10-14, 17.3.10-12-13) (Mark 1.2-3-14, 9.4.11-12-13) (Luke 1.17.76, 3.2-5-18, 7.24-27-28) (John 1.6-8.15-23-40)

 

Not much has been change since Jesus’ time. Before Him was SPIRITUAL DESERT in the hearts of men, during His time was SPIRITUAL DESERT in the hearts of men, and after Him this SPIRITUAL DSERT continue to exist up to our days, and most likely will exist for a long time until second coming of Christ.

 

People will not visit the church if church will start give people the hard stuff of the Bible there the conditions, obligations, and requirements are expected from every true believer in Christ.

 

Entire Church hierarchy and pastors who are on the payroll of the church preferred give people things they like to hear, pleasant things, like guarantied salvation if they only believe in Christ, and nothing else is required, and that people really enjoy and wanted, no any effort needed, we are already “saved”.

 

Indeed, if you already saved why bother to do all the hard stuff, and works that Jesus required from us in order to prove our faith in Him? Believing is enough, and you already saved and reserved your place in Heaven ahead of time, and nothing really left to do, except sit and wait for Christ until He come and gently take us to Heaven. And corrupt and greedy church teaches people that stuff every Sunday.

 

2Timothy 4.3-4

3.The prime time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

4.and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.

 

And assured “salvation” based on believing in Christ alone is the greatest one of these myths of the church.

 

And no wonder that knowledge and understanding of the Bible at its lowest point practically in every church, and people do not understand even the simplest passages of the Bible, because they stuck in the “first grade” for life, just like that teaching they are receiving.

 

1Corinthians 3.1-2

1.And so brothers and sisters I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

2.I fed you with milk not solid food, you were not ready for solid food. Even now you are still not ready,

 

Hebrews 5.12-14

12.Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic elements of the Oracles of GOD. You need milk, not solid food,

13.everyone who lives on milk being still an infant is unskilled in the Word of Righteousness.

14.But solid food is for mature, for those whose faculties have been trained by practice to distinguish good from evil

 

How possible under such condition to change SPIRITUAL DESERT into SPIRITUAL  OASIS of the GARDEN?

 

Actually such possibility exists. People who quit the church and stop supporting hypocrites and greedy clergy of the church and established their own home churches and small groups can easily escape SPIRITUAL DESERT of the church, and enhance and improve own spiritually by deep study of the Bible with people of similar intentions.

 

Because all pastors are HIRERLINGS, they are paid to do their work, and they do not care for the flock given to them, they major motivation is to profit from their flock.

 

Jesus also issued similar warning:

 

John 10.1-12-13-16

12.He who is a hireling (hired man) and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.

13.He flees because he is a hireling and is not concerned about the sheep.

 

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