Still Alive Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Adstar said: From the site:: Simple answer The Gospel of Mark was using a different system of time to the Gospel of John.. Mark was using the gentile system ( the day starting at sunrise ) while John was using the Biblical Jewish system where the Jewish day starts at sunset.. So John states that the trial of Jesus before Pilate was at 12:00 midnight 6 hours after sunset, while Mark states that the execution of Jesus started at 9.00am, 3 hours after sunrise .. I probably should mention that I wasn't really looking for a onesy-twesey refutation of his claims, but rather a more holistic discussion of his ultimate conversion from Christianity and general reasoning behind it. And I confess that details like the ones you pointed out in your post were conspicuously absent in the podcast I heard, but I am aware he does have the more detailed "refutation of the refutations" in other locations. I've found that if I try to defend an English language translation of the bible - line by line, as infallible, I could be in for a world of hurt in any fair debate. That is why that is not the foundation of my belief. My foundation is more solid than that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 Just for fun, google "1 timothy forgery". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie T Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 528 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Adstar said: So was Jesus made? or was He eternally with God and was God? When did Jesus come into existence ? Ever read Hebrews 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Still Alive said: I probably should mention that I wasn't really looking for a onesy-twesey refutation of his claims, but rather a more holistic discussion of his ultimate conversion from Christianity and general reasoning behind it. Disagreement with the message of God leading to a lack of trust in God which in turn leads to a Lack of belief in God .. That's usually the path that leads people to fall away from the truth into deception.. Most people who fall away from the "Love of the truth" will always go and seek out confirmation that their decision to abandon the Way of salvation was the right decision.. Indeed their eternal destiny or otherwise is dependant on their decision being the correct one.. So people who fall away will latch onto these so called contradictions like a hungery baby latches onto their mothers breast because they WANT the contradictions to be true so as to hopefully cause them to be confident and have peace of mind for the rest of their life that they are safe and correct in their casting away their former belief.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie T Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 528 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Still Alive said: But to be sacrificed for us he had to be made a man. But, understanding that scares some people. Remember, a lot of people's conversions were based mainly in fear, and I guess it is hard to break the mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Willie T said: Ever read Hebrews 2? Yes i have.. Now why are you avoiding to answer my questions? like:: When did Jesus come into existence ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie T Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 528 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Adstar said: Yes i have.. Now why are you avoiding to answer my questions? like:: When did Jesus come into existence ? I'd have to say that maybe you haven't read it as closely as you could if you don't know that it speaks directly to "being made." (In verses 9, 10, and 17) Edited August 7, 2018 by Willie T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Adstar said: So was Jesus made? or was He eternally with God and was God? When did Jesus come into existence ? Mary's egg was fertilized by God roughly 2k years ago. The human Jesus was born roughly 9 months later. The God Jesus describes himself as before the earth was formed, "I am." I love that choice of words. It implies not just no beginning nor end, but the simple "act" of existence, with linear time being irrelevant. This may be why the "man" Jesus shows up so many times in the old testament stories. (IMO) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, Willie T said: I'd have to say that maybe you haven't read it as closely as you could if you don't know that it speaks directly to "being made." (In verses 9, 10, and 17) Yes i read that verse here i will quote it:: Hebrews 2: 9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." So your belief that i have not read it was not correct.. I have no problems with the belief that The Body Jesus that He existed in on earth was made by God.. He had to have a created physical body to manifest in.. But i have a very big problem with the belief that Jesus was a created being.. Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting.. He was in the beginning with God and was God.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, Still Alive said: Mary's egg was fertilized by God roughly 2k years ago. The human Jesus was born roughly 9 months later. The God Jesus describes himself as before the earth was formed, "I am." I love that choice of words. It implies not just no beginning nor end, but the simple "act" of existence, with linear time being irrelevant. This may be why the "man" Jesus shows up so many times in the old testament stories. (IMO) I am curious.. Where does it say in the Bible that God fertilized one of Marys eggs? Apart from that i like that you see Jesus declaring Himself to be the I AM ... Which when He said it to the Jews they tried to stone him to death for saying it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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