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Images: Idols or Visual Aides?


Fidei Defensor

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See , their is something all need to be alerted too.     Since MOTHER ROME and her many daughters DO have an agenda .

WHAT is one way to make unity a lil easier .    Well,   since we know ROME is infected in idols and images .

IF I were under her sway and TRYING to win the last group standing .   I would act as though I were against ROME ,

YET keep pedaling ideals as though they good .     Example .  as I said ROME is HUGE baby HUGE on idols and images , SO while pretending I was against her

I WOULD start planting ideas that make IDOLS and images seem like no big  deal .  Then pedal other things from time to time .

I don't know , like say the need for unity , or ecumuncalism , make that seem good too .     Just things like that .  

 

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And the thing is some unknowing do her work .  They don't even realize they do ,    because leaders in high places snuck in concepts who did have an agenda

but brought it in as ,   How was it I put it earlier ,  OH YEAH however it sounds good to whatever group you talking too .

ROME aint fooling anyone who follows the lamb .     And these spirits are all over not only churches , but just common folks too .  They got no idea what is going on ,

they just feel like THE SPIRIT is leading them to Focus on unity and peace ,   YET its not THE SPIRIT ,  ITS a spirit .     And we better not be deceived .

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16 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

See , their is something all need to be alerted too.     Since MOTHER ROME and her many daughters DO have an agenda .

WHAT is one way to make unity a lil easier .    Well,   since we know ROME is infected in idols and images .

IF I were under her sway and TRYING to win the last group standing .   I would act as though I were against ROME ,

YET keep pedaling ideals as though they good .     Example .  as I said ROME is HUGE baby HUGE on idols and images , SO while pretending I was against her

I WOULD start planting ideas that make IDOLS and images seem like no big  deal .  Then pedal other things from time to time .

I don't know , like say the need for unity , or ecumuncalism , make that seem good too .     Just things like that .  

 

Indeed. Rome is not the tome we want to protect. 

However, images are common to Lutherans, Evangelicals, Charismatics, and beyond; Protestant. 

My concern is that the Puritans forbade images and were so strict that their children abandoned the faith and their miserable legalism perished. 

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15 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

It does not matter that images are "common" to some denominations.  Exodus 20 clearly states that we are not to make images of any kind of God, and by extension, Jesus, at all.

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,  2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.  3 "You shall have no other gods before me.  4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.  5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,  6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.  (ESV)

One of Israel's biggest violation of the commandments was idol worship.  They were always falling off the rails when it comes to worshiping idols.  That is why the prohibition of idols and images was put in place, because God realizes how easy it is for something to become a point of worship.  The Puritan's theology failed mostly because people don't really want to be part of a denomination in which you might be set on fire if the majority of the people inside the denom think you need to be set on fire.  Not a big selling point.  Pictures of God and Christ are always forbidden, no matter what the denomination thinks.  Just because some denominations think it's OK does not validate the practice.

Are we under the law or Grace? “For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17). As for me I won’t nullify Grace, “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose,” (Galatians 2:21) and, “Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace.” (Galatians 5:2-4). 

The law puts people under s curse and is the power of sin, “For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them,” (Galatians 3:10), and, “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.” (1 Corinthians 15:56). We are no longer under the law, “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit,” (Romans 8:3-4). Jesus Christ has fulfilled and ended the law, “When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear,” (Hebrews 8:13), and, “But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.” (Hebrews 8:6). 

The law blinds people to Christ, “But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.” (2 Corinthians 3:14-15). 

As for images, how can they be harmful if they are images depicting and honoring Jesus the Great I AM? 

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5 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed. Rome is not the tome we want to protect. 

However, images are common to Lutherans, Evangelicals, Charismatics, and beyond; Protestant. 

My concern is that the Puritans forbade images and were so strict that their children abandoned the faith and their miserable legalism perished. 

As I saw the overall of your post ,  THE LORD brought a wonderful sound reminder .

Idols are not a visual aide,   THEY IDOLS .    I mean we don't bring idols into prayer , we don't bow to them , what a mock to GOD.

Besides all that ,    I already GOT MY AIDE , I ALREADY GOT all I NEED to worship GOD .    ITS CALLED THE HOLY SPIRIT ,   in fact ITS HOW we worship GOD and the only way

we can IN SPIRIT and TRUTH .    bowing to idols is a lie  , and forbidden .   And that same helper , YOU KNOW , the HOLYGHOST , reminds me of that very thing .

WE don't need the creation of mens hands to worship GOD , they don't help or aide in anyway to our worship OF GOD .   they take away ,  ,

WE GOT all we need .   THE HELPER IS THE HOLY GHOST and it is as invisible as GOD is to our physical eye .    OH but HIS SPIRIT opens our eyes to the spiritiual

where we need no inventions of men to worship GOD , they all a waste and he who trusts in them , is as dead as they are .   I GOT MY VISUAL AIDE ,  CALLED THE HOLY GHOST .

AND JESUS is whom I will point too and say ever louder , BOW DOWN before no images that the hand of man has made .   use them NOT for worship

WORSHIP IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH .      SEEING a bit clearer now fidei .   NOW FLEE any defense of idols .

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2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Are we under the law or Grace? “For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17). As for me I won’t nullify Grace, “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose,” (Galatians 2:21) and, “Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace.” (Galatians 5:2-4). 

The law puts people under s curse and is the power of sin, “For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them,” (Galatians 3:10), and, “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.” (1 Corinthians 15:56). We are no longer under the law, “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit,” (Romans 8:3-4). Jesus Christ has fulfilled and ended the law, “When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear,” (Hebrews 8:13), and, “But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.” (Hebrews 8:6). 

The law blinds people to Christ, “But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.” (2 Corinthians 3:14-15). 

As for images, how can they be harmful if they are images depicting and honoring Jesus the Great I AM? 

I think you left out a key thing .  DO we then MAKE VOID the law through grace .  GOD FORBID .   The grace of CHRIST does not teach us TO make void GODS LAW.

IT puts it on our heart .  and JESUS made clear ,  its not what goes in a man that defiles him .  thus all things to eat are clean ,  SO LONG as its in that mans conscious .

BUT BOWING to IDOLS aint meats and drinks ,   ITS BOWING TO IDOLS . 

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Idol and image (ikon) are not the same thing. An idol is something you worship and pray to as a god. An image in contrast is:

  1. physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing,photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.(Dictionary.com)

By this definition the Cherubim angels on the Ark of the Covenant are an image. An image is representation, just as images of our Lord and God Jesus only are representations but not Him; pictures of His likeness. 

Edited by Fidei Defensor
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8 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Idol and image (ikon) are not the same thing. An idol is something you worship and pray to as a god. An image in contrast is:

  1. physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing,photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.(Dictionary.com)

By this definition the Cherubim angels on the Ark of the Covenant are an image. An image is representation, just as images of our Lord and God Jesus only are representations but not Him; pictures of His likeness. 

Fidie ,   you know I loves ya ,   but you running out of gas on this one .    

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Idols are indeed more than  blocks of wood...

 

From A sermon  by Charles H. Spurgeon  is this introduction to a longer sermon that may be found by searching on  Duck Duck Go for Spurgeon archives sermon # 1339

IDOLS ABOLISHED

NO. 1339

A SERMON

DELIVERED BY C. H. SPURGEON,

AT THE METROPOLITAN TABERNACLE, NEWINGTON.

“Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols?” Hosea 14:8.

IDOLATRY was the great sin of the ten tribes represented by Ephraim. Indeed, it is the sin of the entire human race. When we speak of idolatry we need not think of blocks of wood and stone and men bowing down before them, for our native land swarms with idolaters. Neither need you go into the streets to find them. Stay where you are and look into your own hearts and you shall find idols there. This is the one easily besetting sin of our nature—to turn aside from the living God and to make unto ourselves idols in some fashion or another. For the essence of idolatry is this—to love anything better than God, to trust anything more than God, to wish to have a God other than we have or to have some signs and wonders by which we may see Him, some outward symbol or manifestation that can be seen with the eye or heard with the ear rather than to rest in an invisible God and believe the faithful promise of Him whom eye has not seen nor ear heard. In some form or other this great sin is the main mischief in the heart of man and even in saved men this is one of the developments of remaining corruption. We may very easily make an idol of anything and in many different ways. No doubt many mothers and fathers make idols of their children, and so many husbands and wives idolize each other, and we may even make idols of ministers, even as there were idol shepherds of old. Equally is it certain that many a thoughtful man makes an idol of his intellect, and many another makes an idol of his gold, or even of that little home wherein he enjoys so much content. The ignorant papist holds up his crucifix and wor- ships that and that is his idol. But men who are better instructed often take the Bible and read it and fail- ing to get through the letter into the spirit, they trust in the mere act of Scripture reading and make even the Word itself to become an idol to them through their resting in a mere creed or in bare Bible reading and not pressing through it to spiritual hearty worship of God Himself. Anything, however holy, which comes between us and the personal dealing of our soul with God, as He is revealed in Christ Jesus by faith and love and hope, becomes an idol to us....

Edited by Neighbor
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On 9/15/2018 at 9:52 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

Idol and image (ikon) are not the same thing. An idol is something you worship and pray to as a god. An image in contrast is:

  1. physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing,photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.(Dictionary.com)

By this definition the Cherubim angels on the Ark of the Covenant are an image. An image is representation, just as images of our Lord and God Jesus only are representations but not Him; pictures of His likeness. 

Earlier in your replies, you kept mentioning the bronze serpent  that the Lord instructed Moses to make so that anyone bitten by a serpent would look upon it and recover.   There was a reply that showed how the people fell into worshiping that idol and it had to be destroyed.  You were insistent for an answer and referred to that bronze serpent a lot as a reference to the "Lord ordained it " as in your words, which he did indeed, but the outcome was dreadful as we see .   Now you seem to be silent on this as you had mentioned this repeatedly.   Now, could you make a statement as to this bronze statue.   The meaning of " SPIRIT" has to be grasped and understood in the believers life for sure, if he is to pursue a spiritual life.  

Edited by warrior12
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