Pastors are overseers

[Wayne222]

               A lot of people believe you don't need church. You can just be a Christian without going to a church. They also think Pastors and Elders should have no authority.  That snce we are all Christians we  are all equal.  But really God created Authority in the body of christ. He told Pastors to watch over the flock that christ gave them. It shows we need to belong to a physical body of believers. And there are ones set up in that church to guard the flock and to keep order. We are to give honor to those who do the work of christ and respect them. Even submit to them in the word. Abuse is a different matter. A pastor should be gentle and kind. And pure hearted. But some say my church is the bible teachers on the radio. Or on youtube. They think they don't need to be in church physically. They are missing a whole lot. Where two or more are gathered in christ name then christ is there too. 

[Neighbor]

Amen, amen. 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

I was never able to find a local church that wasn’t  steeped in legalism ,fear mongering or a “ never go beyond the 4 Gospels and preach Pauline Doctrine”. It’s all a variation on “ of course Jesus saves, but once you know that, you have to do do this and don’t do that to STAY saved and earn God’s love.Yes, I know the Bible says not to neglect the assembly.If and when I find a church that sings “Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” and actually preaches what they sing, I will be first in line. Until then, I find more actual true fellowship and solid teaching from sites like this.” Where two or three are gathered” does not necessarily have to be face-to-face .

Edited August 10, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953

[Dennis1209]

While true, going to a church or being a member thereof is not a Salvation issue, a lot of the Bible deals with the church, qualifications of pastors, deacons, elders, etc. One of the signs that confirms we are living in 'the last days' is the history written in advance of the church age, symbolized by the seven churches described in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3.  None of these characteristics of those churches evaporated or stopped, the continued on and trickled down to the next. Today we have churches with all those characteristics with an apostasy occurring. Bible believing Gospel preaching churches preaching the whole council of God are still out there to be found. The Holy Spirit lead me to one of those churches. Just one of my many examples of how God does always answer prayer.

There's just so many biblical beneficial reasons why we are to assemble ourselves together as believers to mention. We find strength, encouragement and support collectively with one another. Collectively we have a greater impact spreading the Gospel of Christ as a church to our community. We tithe and give offerings collectively to support missionaries, help the needy, spread the Gospel, pay the Pastor, etc. 

It's hard to fellowship, share a meal, shake a hand or a hug, share your heart and love through Youtube, TV, face whatever, etc. 

Above all professions, I place a Bible believing, Gospel preaching caring Pastor on a pedestal. He (notice I didn't say he or she) is the Sheppard of the flock and is to look out for our most important possessions; our mind, soul and spirit. A Pastor and minister is blessed and held to a higher standard by God, most or many genuine pastors received a calling from God. It's hard to impossible to receive such care being removed from your physical presence in church.

Nothing beats coming together with your brothers and sisters in Christ to collectively worship, pray and sing unto the Lord. 

Just my personal thoughts.

[Sower]

31 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Above all professions, I place a Bible believing, Gospel preaching caring Pastor on a pedestal. He (notice I didn't say he or she) is the Sheppard of the flock and is to look out for our most important possessions; our mind, soul and spirit. A Pastor and minister is blessed and held to a higher standard by God, most or many genuine pastors received a calling from God. It's hard to impossible to receive such care being removed from your physical presence in church.

Nothing beats coming together with your brothers and sisters in Christ to collectively worship, pray and sing unto the Lord. 

Just my personal thoughts.

Well said, Dennis. There are those churches out there, with humble pastors that have a true heart for God, and truth.  I believe others can find them if they don't loose hope  give up searching, and call upon the Lord for direction.

[Neighbor]

Hi again all, I do have to wonder at the comments that one cannot "find" a church. Maybe that is so; BUT, I just haven't had that experience. In fact I have been unable to avoid being led to a church, as the Holy Spirit has just made it impossible for me  not to go as sent go to  the church He will have me go to and stand my post as assigned.

So I just don't get it at all, not when I have had to pick up my family  move 2800 miles, change careers,  and yes suffer rather significant loss in this world, but have also  been given such overwhelming benefit from God that is as the ad world says in terms of value,  "priceless".

 I once resisted for a full six months before investigating what God was showing me I need to do. I was just nearly paralyzed with inaction of any kind though I had just sold a business and was well enough off at the time financially. I became almost morose with depression, until I caved and followed God's lead. He overwhelmed me with confirmation once I did follow.

So I share because I wonder if somehow the lead of God is being missed when  one says I cannot find a church. My prayer then becomes; may each  of us be receptive to the call when it comes and may each be unable to resist that call.

BTW each call to move has not become a utopia for me. It has been work, lots of it, and tribulation and  very wearing at times. One call led to 14 years of employment that  I had not sought, but which I now know to have been God's way of filling in with me, and for me, until  the younger generation  will come, a better educated and stronger generation that now has picked up the load and is carrying it like I never could. I am so encouraged by the experience and by what is happening today in the local body of Christ Jesus!

And yes the elders and elder/pastors are the overseers, men with great responsibility and accountability to God that each saint might be in prayer for every day.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Neighbor

[Guest shiloh357]

You didn't look too hard, then.

[Neighbor]

On 8/10/2018 at 3:53 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I was never able to find a local church that wasn’t  steeped in legalism ,fear mongering or a “ never go beyond the 4 Gospels and preach Pauline Doctrine”. It’s all a variation on “ of course Jesus saves, but once you know that, you have to do do this and don’t do that to STAY saved and earn God’s love.Yes, I know the Bible says not to neglect the assembly.If and when I find a church that sings “Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” and actually preaches what they sing, I will be first in line. Until then, I find more actual true fellowship and solid teaching from sites like this.” Where two or three are gathered” does not necessarily have to be face-to-face .

Hi,

Sorry I strongly disagree based upon my own adventures in trying that. It is a very serious error (  I livd in it for some time) one that does not lead to growth and blessings.

No this is no substitute for church. One might try to use this site as excuse for not humbling self under the lead of a local body and it's overseers, but it is no local body, nothing like one at all.

There is a difference from here as compared to a local body of Christ Jesus of any size from two to twenty thousand. Here within reason each are independent agents, none responsible to another, nor does one help widows and orphans of this site that I know of. Has anyone organized the mowing of a Christian  widow's lawn here? The fixing of a widow's air conditioning? The repair of a screen door, anything like that at all under  the lead of the Holy Spirit through anointed leadership of those assigned the responsibility? None are held accountable to much of anything  here either other than a bit of language and a brief agreement that one is a trinitarian Christian. I kinda suspect no one gives anywhere near the financial support  here  that would be given at a local body of Christ Jesus either, at least not to giving sacrifically.

If this is being used as replacement for church, then  shame for not listening to the call of the Holy Spirit, shame for not praying  to God to be led to a local body, shame for being a passive keyboard believer  instead of an active one at a real neighborhood  of believers led to gather by the Holy Spirit. And shame for missing out on corporate worship the singing of praise to God  along with fellow saints in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Shame for having such pride that one will not join with others in a local church and be submissive to what God has blessed for his own.

Yes it may be hard to  find one on one's own- if one does not sit and pray to God to be delivered to one, and then be willing to go, go as far as it takes to be where God leads.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Neighbor

[Fidei Defensor]

Pastor and Overseer are not the same thing. 

Pastor is s gift, “Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.” (Ephesians 4:11). 

Pastors are suppose to put the sheep to pasture and take care of them. 

Overseer is Elder and what is known as Bishop and is different from pastor as is Deacon: “Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate,self-controlled, respectable, hospitable,able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness,not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap. Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued,[a] not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise[b] must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy3:1-13). 

Bishops or overseeers are in charge of many churches in their diocese; village, or city, or town. The Bishop of London (200+churches) oppose to the pastor of Edward St. London Church (1 Church, 80 souls). 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Blood Bought 1953]

12 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi,

Sorry I strongly disagree based upon my own adventures in trying that. It is a very serious error (  I livd in it for some time) one that does not lead to growth and blessings.

No this is no substitute for church. One might try to use this site as excuse for not humbling self under the lead of a local body and it's overseers, but it is no local body, nothing like one at all.

There is a difference from here as compared to a local body of Christ Jesus of any size from two to twenty thousand. Here within reason each are independent agents, none responsible to another, nor does one help widows and orphans of this site that I know of. Has anyone organized the mowing of a Christian  widow's lawn here? The fixing of a widow's air conditioning? The repair of a screen door, anything like that at all under  the lead of the Holy Spirit through anointed leadership of those assigned the responsibility? None are held accountable to much of anything  here either other than a bit of language and a brief agreement that one is a trinitarian Christian. I kinda suspect no one gives anywhere near the financial support  here  that would be given at a local body of Christ Jesus either, at least not to giving sacrifically.

If this is being used as replacement for church, then  shame for not listening to the call of the Holy Spirit, shame for not praying  to God to be led to a local body, shame for being a passive keyboard believer  instead of an active one at a real neighborhood  of believers led to gather by the Holy Spirit. And shame for missing out on corporate worship the singing of praise to God  along with fellow saints in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Shame for having such pride that one will not join with others in a local church and be submissive to what God has blessed for his own.

Yes it may be hard to  find one on one's own- if one does not sit and pray to God to be delivered to one, and then be willing to go, go as far as it takes to be where God leads.

 

With all due respect.....You do not know me at all. I think you mean well, but your ignorance of any of my true thoughts or motivations and your unfamiliarity with my Christian walk makes your “ insight” into my problems with my local churches worth exactly what I payed for them—nothing.

I know how to play church .I used to that when I was Bible ignorant.Like everyone else, I never opened a Bible.Nothing But boredom and confusion was between the covers of that dusty old thing.Since discovering a Bible that I could understand and actually enjoy reading, I no longer can be held captive to errant teaching—- I know what is in there and I know What ain’t.Doctrine is all- important, it can make the difference of where we spend eternity.I have a big heart for widows also,but they will have to cut their own grass if it’s part of a church that says”  Jesus Saves— BUT!” Call me selfish, but my salvation is more important to me than their screen doors and air conditioners.

Your noble attempt to shame me into going to a brick- and - mortar church was very revealing . Is that the only carrot you could offer me to go to church? Shame, guilt, being accused of being too “ proud” to “ submit” to a pastor.All coming from a supposed Christian brother who knows me like he knows a two year old Eskimo?Feel free to take some of my shame.....you sure doled out plenty of it.

Heres the deal.I have nothing against churches.I know this site is no substitute for a church and I do not use it as such.You, with your broad- brushed use of shame and false accusations only reveal to me how right I have been.It seems nothing has changed in the last 50 years.When  my church- going friends tell their stories of how they fight to stay awake, and when they tell me that they occupy their minds with visions of golf and eating at Bob Evans while they should be listening to a boring sermon about morality lessons instead of how to be righteous in God’s eyes, it sickens me.However , it does not surprise me.The bottom line for me is that a person should go where the teaching of God’s Word is the best, be it at the local church or on you tube.I don’t want my children to play church like I did. There are Great Teachers of the Word who preach the True Gospel on the internet.If and when the day comes that I find a church with teachers like Andrew Farley , the late Peter Ruckman Les Celdick or  the best Bible teacher alive— Renee Roland.......wild horses would not keep me from them if they had a church within a 100 miles from me. I have to insist that the teaching comes first.Souls are at stake.I’ll find a better motivator than shame for my children and myself.Faith plus nothing.If I find it in a brick and mortar church here, just try to keep me away!

 

 btw.......my everyday joy that I experience even though I face problems that would drive many to suicide proves to me that I must be doing “ something” right.

 

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