The Restrainer.....Who....When

[angels4u]

9 minutes ago, Spock said:

Good morn8mg angel,

i Appreciate your work here but I really don’t want to watch a 45 min video but knowing this came from Amir, I’m sure he says the Church or the Holy Spirit in the church, which makes sense to me.

it seems LOGICAL to me to ask yourself, “what is holding back the Beast from rising up and doing his abomination thingy?  

Is it Michael?  That makes no sense (sorry Rosenthal) but Michael’s job is to protect Israel, not hold back the Beast. 

Is it the HS?  I doubt it. I know people will be saved after the rapture as well.

is it government? Lol....that is a good one.

Well, is there anyone leaving the planet? If so, whoever is departing may just be the one who is holding back? That seems logical to me, and you know I’m all about being logical.

hey wait, the body of Christ is departing before the wrath of God is released. Hmmmm

So, it seems logical to me to believe the corporate Church led by the HS is the restrained, and once it is removed, the DOTL (God’s wrath) can now be released. After all, didn’t God say in Rev 3:10 that he will keep us (the faithful church) from the hour of trouble about to come upon the whole world? 

Seems LOGICAL to me......

 

Amen Spock, I agree for 100 % with what you said.. 

[Spock]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm not making any call. It's simply for clarification as the point in this discussion is the 'restrainer' and who or what that is. That's what I was trying to show by highlighting those parts that advanced that narrative. But you could be right.  After all it's all the same day; the coming of our Lord Jesus and the gathering of us to Him happen in conjunction so the Coming and Gathering of verse 1 is the Day of the Lord from verse 2 and 3.

What makes the best sense is the interpretation of the passage in the context of passage as Paul said, "CONCERNING the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him,". The rest of this chapter is in that context, The coming of Jesus and the Gathering. Nothing gets 'bogged down in details' as it's the details that enlighten. That means the Coming and the Gathering are the Day of the Lord, or the beginning of the DOT; certainly the salient aspect in this the 2nd chapter of the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, and whether this coming and gathering has happened, and what must occur before the coming and gathering will happen.

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter presuming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until 

Paul is associating  the coming and the gathering with the Day of the Lord, in verse 3 he simply calls this Day, 'it'.  Am I to think we now have yet another thing separate from day or gathering, a new thing here as it's not called 'day' but 'it'. Neither word is used in the Greek and the portion reads 'because except' not 'day' or 'it'. But here we accept Paul is still talking about the Day of the Lord; that cannot be extended to verse 1 and we can understand the coming and the gathering, and the Day of the Lord, and 'because except', are all the same?

The Gathering may not be called a 'day' but the context is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our being gathered together to Him,". Both, not just the one. In reality 'day' only occurs once from v 1-3 in the translation. You contend we must only associate like terms but in the three verses 'day' only appears once. Then you could not associate the verse 2 'day' with the verse 3 'day' as the word does not appear in verse 3. But if we are to associate like concepts it's not an issue. Verses 1-3 are all speaking to the same thing; the Coming and the Gathering are the Day of the Lord and that day will not come 'because except'.

But the real point is that the 'restrainer' is the rise of the beast, which comes before the great and terrible day of the Lord and the gathering together of us to Him.

 

 

Here is what I believe brother...

1. The restrained is removed (rapture) which will allow for the wrath of God to be released. God promised His church they will not experience His wrath. (I personally believe the trumpets and bowls are His wraith and that his wrath begins at the 7th seal, but that is debatable)

2. There is an unknown period of time that lapses before the wrath is released. Even the Bible in Rev 8 says there was a silence in heaven for about half an hour. I’m not sure what this means and besides, the word ABOUT was used too....

3. As a result of the restrainer being removed, this allows the Beast to do his abomination thingy at the midpoint of the week. Now the BEAST can be revealed. 

“And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.”

Now, here is where I am confused and why I am reaching out to my brothers and sisters here seeking their wisdom and thoughts and research.  I cannot say for certainty that restrainer is removed PRIOR to the peace treaty because I’m thinking the antichrist MAY NOT BE THE BEAST QUITE YET. I’m thinking he becomes the beast when he gets that fatal wound....at this point he gets possessed by either Satan, Abaddon, or some demonic force, rises up, and then does his abomination thingy. I don’t see him as being the same man who was involved with the peace treaty but rather a man now TOTALLY possessed by evil. 

I know my pre Trib brethren will not accept that this restrainer can be removed sometime in the first half of the week, and i know my post Trib brethren are not happy because they believe the church will absolutely see the Beast.  it is not my intention to upset people, but I state what I’m thinking and look to see why you think I’m wrong. 

I can say with close to 100% certainty that I believe the rapture PRECEDES the abomination and the release of the trumpets and bowls. But that is all. I cannot with 100% confidence say I believe the rapture of the church (the restrainer) PRECEDES the peace treaty that begins the 70th week. 

Im listening though to anyone who can convince me the rapture HAS TO POSITIVELY be before the peace treaty. Thanks

in love while seeking,

spock

Edited March 22, 2019 by Spock

[Zemke]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Good morn8mg angel,

i Appreciate your work here but I really don’t want to watch a 45 min video but knowing this came from Amir, I’m sure he says the Church or the Holy Spirit in the church, which makes sense to me.

it seems LOGICAL to me to ask yourself, “what is holding back the Beast from rising up and doing his abomination thingy?  

Is it Michael?  That makes no sense (sorry Rosenthal) but Michael’s job is to protect Israel, not hold back the Beast. 

Is it the HS?  I doubt it. I know people will be saved after the rapture as well.

is it government? Lol....that is a good one.

Well, is there anyone leaving the planet? If so, whoever is departing may just be the one who is holding back? That seems logical to me, and you know I’m all about being logical.

hey wait, the body of Christ is departing before the wrath of God is released. Hmmmm

So, it seems logical to me to believe the corporate Church led by the HS is the restrained, and once it is removed, the DOTL (God’s wrath) can now be released. After all, didn’t God say in Rev 3:10 that he will keep us (the faithful church) from the hour of trouble about to come upon the whole world? 

Seems LOGICAL to me......

 

 

Something to consider, the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples before the day of Pentecost. There was an interval between the two events.

The Spirit was given in Acts to empower the church to be witnesses, martyrs, and disciple new believers, the gifts of the Spirit to the church for the building up of the saints. Jesus blew on the disciples beforehand and said, "Recieve the Holy Spirit"Jn 20:22. The Holy Spirit was also given at Pentecost to convict the world of sin. It might be possible that what is restraining is the outpouring of the Spirit, NOT THE EARNEST GIVEN TO BELIEVERS. The church as in post Pentecost will no longer function in that manner. Elijah held back the rain for 3.5 years. The conviction of the Holy Spirit on the world will no longer be in effect but believers will have the indwelling. "I will never leave you or foresake you". 

We will know who the man of sin is before we are rescued. Jesus said He(Jesus) must go so the Holy Spirit may come. Well the ministry of the Holy Spirit will end and He(the Spirit) will leave so that Jesus can come back. Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples while He was still here. The whole scenario is reversed. "When you see all these things begin to happen, then look up for your redemption draws nigh."

The Holy Spirit doesn't get withdrawn completely it's just that God goes back to dealing with the world and the Jews as He did in the past. The 144,000 and as I said Elijah has something to do with the coming of the Lord or the spirit of Elijah as with Jesus first coming with John the Baptist. 

Something to consider.

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Zemke

[Diaste]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:11 AM, iamlamad said:

The problem with your theory is, the way Paul wrote it, then "rebellion" has to be what allows the man of sin to be revealed. I think it makes more sense if it is the power of God or the power or righteousness that restrains evil. 

If that were the case. The 2nd coming is what's being held back til the beast is revealed at the midpoint. 

It's not, repeat not, the beast being withheld by the power of the church, or the power of the Holy Spirit, or Michael or any other holy entity. (Apologies, didn't mean to group the 'church' in with holy entities. )

You'll see, we all will, if we are alive when it all goes down. 

Best prep for the long haul.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Spock said:

Here is what I believe brother...

1. The restrained is removed (rapture) which will allow for the wrath of God to be released. God promised His church they will not experience His wrath. (I personally believe the trumpets and bowls are His wraith and that his wrath begins at the 7th seal, but that is debatable)

2. There is an unknown period of time that lapses before the wrath is released. Even the Bible in Rev 8 says there was a silence in heaven for about half an hour. I’m not sure what this means and besides, the word ABOUT was used too....

3. As a result of the restrainer being removed, this allows the Beast to do his abomination thingy at the midpoint of the week. Now the BEAST can be revealed. 

“And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.”

Now, here is where I am confused and why I am reaching out to my brothers and sisters here seeking their wisdom and thoughts and research.  I cannot say for certainty that restrainer is removed PRIOR to the peace treaty because I’m thinking the antichrist MAY NOT BE THE BEAST QUITE YET. I’m thinking he becomes the beast when he gets that fatal wound....at this point he gets possessed by either Satan, Abaddon, or some demonic force, rises up, and then does his abomination thingy. I don’t see him as being the same man who was involved with the peace treaty but rather a man now TOTALLY possessed by evil. 

I know my pre Trib brethren will not accept that this restrainer can be removed sometime in the first half of the week, and i know my post Trib brethren are not happy because they believe the church will absolutely see the Beast.  it is not my intention to upset people, but I state what I’m thinking and look to see why you think I’m wrong. 

I can say with close to 100% certainty that I believe the rapture PRECEDES the abomination and the release of the trumpets and bowls. But that is all. I cannot with 100% confidence say I believe the rapture of the church (the restrainer) PRECEDES the peace treaty that begins the 70th week. 

Im listening though to anyone who can convince me the rapture HAS TO POSITIVELY be before the peace treaty. Thanks

in love while seeking,

spock

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter presuming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6 And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

The context begins with the Coming and the Gathering with Paul grouping them together in verse 2 under the scope of the DOTL.

The phrase, "...for it will not come..." refers to the DOTL and is the direct antecedent to

"until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed."

So the DOTL, which includes the Coming and the Gathering cannot 'come' until the beast is revealed.

The phrase, "...And you know what is now restraining him..." has as it's direct antecedent the context of the chapter, "...coming of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

"...it will not come..." is the DOTL and it's beginning

"...until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness...is revealed."

Since this is true and we see the order of the things as the rebellion and revealing occurring before the Coming and the Gathering it can only be that the Coming and the gathering are what is being restrained by the rebellion and the revealing.

The direct antecedent to verse 6 is this phrase in verse 3, "...Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness...is revealed." therefore it is Jesus coming that is held back by the revealing of the beast. 

We can't just decide to remove either the context or the flow of the narrative. Highlighting the flow of the passage we see the truth;

 

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him,

Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.

And you know what is now restraining him ( Jesus), so that he (Jesus) may be revealed at the proper time.

 

The popular interpretation of the pretrib camp would work out that the man of sin is restraining the man of sin, and/or the rebellion is restraining the rebellion, silly ideas really.

 

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 

In this verse the phrase, "...he is taken..." is actually 'emerge'. The phrase, "... but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way." transliterated reads, "...only wait until he emerges from the midst." It does make sense the way the translators penned this but likely only if one understood the idea behind it; which is the direct antecedent;

"...the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

The idea being that after this dramatic entrance onto the world stage the restraining influence of the hidden presence of the beast no longer applies; the beast ascended the Temple steps and declared himself to be god, no longer hidden but overt, and the restraining influence of his lurking is,"...taken out of the way." 

A word about, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work..."

In order for the idea of the above phrase to be the antecedent of, "...but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way." one has to take a vacation from reason. Paul is saying the the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, then goes on to say it's restrained in the same breath? So is it at work or restrained? The idea of some is that it can't do any work till any number of others are taken out of the way: the church, Micheal, the Holy Spirit, and who knows what else.

Paul disputes this by saying it is working and if one pays attention to the context of the entire chapter and the literal Greek of, the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way, there is only one conclusion. Verse 7 would read, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, just wait until he rises before the world in the midst." Seamlessly melding with the context, the character, the flow and the overall concept.

What's being restrained is the coming of the Lord by the revealing of the beast at the midpoint of the week. This truth will be borne out before our eyes, if we live to see it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter presuming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6 And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

The context begins with the Coming and the Gathering with Paul grouping them together in verse 2 under the scope of the DOTL.

The phrase, "...for it will not come..." refers to the DOTL and is the direct antecedent to

"until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed."

So the DOTL, which includes the Coming and the Gathering cannot 'come' until the beast is revealed.

The phrase, "...And you know what is now restraining him..." has as it's direct antecedent the context of the chapter, "...coming of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

"...it will not come..." is the DOTL and it's beginning

"...until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness...is revealed."

Since this is true and we see the order of the things as the rebellion and revealing occurring before the Coming and the Gathering it can only be that the Coming and the gathering are what is being restrained by the rebellion and the revealing.

The direct antecedent to verse 6 is this phrase in verse 3, "...Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness...is revealed." therefore it is Jesus coming that is held back by the revealing of the beast. 

We can't just decide to remove either the context or the flow of the narrative. Highlighting the flow of the passage we see the truth;

 

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him,

Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.

And you know what is now restraining him ( Jesus), so that he (Jesus) may be revealed at the proper time.

 

The popular interpretation of the pretrib camp would work out that the man of sin is restraining the man of sin, and/or the rebellion is restraining the rebellion, silly ideas really.

 

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 

In this verse the phrase, "...he is taken..." is actually 'emerge'. The phrase, "... but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way." transliterated reads, "...only wait until he emerges from the midst." It does make sense the way the translators penned this but likely only if one understood the idea behind it; which is the direct antecedent;

"...the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

The idea being that after this dramatic entrance onto the world stage the restraining influence of the hidden presence of the beast no longer applies; the beast ascended the Temple steps and declared himself to be god, no longer hidden but overt, and the restraining influence of his lurking is,"...taken out of the way." 

A word about, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work..."

In order for the idea of the above phrase to be the antecedent of, "...but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way." one has to take a vacation from reason. Paul is saying the the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, then goes on to say it's restrained in the same breath? So is it at work or restrained? The idea of some is that it can't do any work till any number of others are taken out of the way: the church, Micheal, the Holy Spirit, and who knows what else.

Paul disputes this by saying it is working and if one pays attention to the context of the entire chapter and the literal Greek of, the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way, there is only one conclusion. Verse 7 would read, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, just wait until he rises before the world in the midst." Seamlessly melding with the context, the character, the flow and the overall concept.

What's being restrained is the coming of the Lord by the revealing of the beast at the midpoint of the week. This truth will be borne out before our eyes, if we live to see it.

Why not just believe what is written with no preconceptions? What is it that is being "restrained?"

2:1 (Amplified)  Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,² not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come.

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

⁴ Which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doth sit as God in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

⁵ Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

⁶ And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time.

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way.

⁸ And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming,

It is the "revealing" that is being restrained. What does Paul mean?  He tells us:  "exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshiped: so that he doth sit as God in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

The man of sin will not be known by the masses until he enters the temple and declares he is the God of the Jews (and probably the God of the Muslims too).  This is him being "revealed." God is using the church to prevent this revealing before the proper time. This is not a difficult concept. 

Can we use a little common sense here?  If Paul had taught them that the rapture would be AFTER the days of tribulation, and they though they were IN the tribulation, then why be upset? They would be assured, if they held out a little while longer, they would be raptured.  Sorry, this scenario does not fit! They WERE upset - very upset.

On the other hand, if Paul had taught them that the rapture would come just BEFORE the day (Which is exactly what he taught in his first letter to them) and then they learned (and it seems believed) from a prophecy or a letter, that they were now IN the Day of the Lord, OF COURSE they would be upset! They must have thought Paul was mistaken or they had missed the rapture. I think I would be upset in such a case. This scenario fits the text.

Paul's argument then is to prove them to that they are NOT in THE DAY, and how anyone can know when the Day of the Lord has already started and they are IN IT: How? Simple: if they see the man of sin enter the temple and declare he is God, all will know, the DAY has already started and they are IN IT.

This fits Daniel and Revelation also: the abomination event will be what divides the week. When at the point of the abomination - the man of sin entering the temple - all will know at that point they are not only IN the day, the Day will have started over 3 years previous.

By the way, "taken out of the way" or "gone from the midst" is saying the same thing. When the Lord catches away the church, it will be "taken out of the way" and it will be "gone from the midst." 

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Why not just believe what is written with no preconceptions? What is it that is being "restrained?"

I established that in concise manner. The Coming and the Gathering is held back till the beast is revealed and the rebellion occurs.

Quote

 

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way.

 

Behold:

 

This verse looks like it has been not only misunderstood (by me) but mistranslated as well. Behold a new reality:

KJV                 only       he who now      letteth      

Greek            monon           arti               katecho      

Literal             Merely      just now        hold fast      

 

KJV                   until               he be taken            out of              the way. 

Greek                heos                ginomai                   ek                    mesos       

Literal               until               to emerge           from out of         in the midst.

 

‘Ginomai’ (he be taken)

Definition

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen of events to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage of men appearing in public to be made, finished of miracles, to be performed, wrought to become, be made

Pretty clear this isn't 'taken out of the way', it's an appearing.

 

‘Mesos’ (the way)

Definition

middle the midst in the midst of, amongst

No need to say anything here.

Instead of, "only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way." it's much better if we adhere to the Greek and continue in the same context as Paul; therefore this fragment should read a bit differently, e.g. “Simply endure for now until he rises in the middle.” or, “Merely hold fast for now until he appears to the world from in the midst.” Maybe, “Wait until the coming into being in the middle,” is better and more accurate.

 

Quote

Can we use a little common sense here?  If Paul had taught them that the rapture would be AFTER the days of tribulation, and they though they were IN the tribulation, then why be upset? They would be assured, if they held out a little while longer, they would be raptured.  Sorry, this scenario does not fit! They WERE upset - very upset.

Because the real concern is that they were in the wrath of God, not the tribulation (the two are not equivalent), and had missed the gathering.

Quote

On the other hand, if Paul had taught them that the rapture would come just BEFORE the day (Which is exactly what he taught in his first letter to them) and then they learned (and it seems believed) from a prophecy or a letter, that they were now IN the Day of the Lord, OF COURSE they would be upset! They must have thought Paul was mistaken or they had missed the rapture. I think I would be upset in such a case. This scenario fits the text.

No. Paul did not teach them this in a previous letter. "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?" 2 Thess 2:5

Since you didn't get that correct, how can you be sure of the rest of what you believe?

Quote

Paul's argument then is to prove them to that they are NOT in THE DAY, and how anyone can know when the Day of the Lord has already started and they are IN IT: How? Simple: if they see the man of sin enter the temple and declare he is God, all will know, the DAY has already started and they are IN IT.

Exactly.

Quote

This fits Daniel and Revelation also: the abomination event will be what divides the week. When at the point of the abomination - the man of sin entering the temple - all will know at that point they are not only IN the day, the Day will have started over 3 years previous.

And then we fall off the cliff. So Paul told them when the day would start, but then lied in the same breath? How can Paul tell them they will know it started when the see the A of D, but that it started 3 years earlier? Why would he not just say when it began? He did. The DOTL begins AFTER the beast is revealed.

"...for that day shall NOT COME, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,"  - 2 Thess 2:3   But you still cling to the idea it started 3 years before when Paul says it won't even begin till the A of D?

Quote

By the way, "taken out of the way" or "gone from the midst" is saying the same thing. When the Lord catches away the church, it will be "taken out of the way" and it will be "gone from the midst." 

'Emerge' from within the midst, not 'gone from the midst'.

The false equivalency of tribulation and wrath is confusion and taints understanding. The fear is being in the wrath of God, not in tribulation.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Diaste

[iamlamad]

Just now, Diaste said:

•   8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Why not just believe what is written with no preconceptions? What is it that is being "restrained?"

I established that in concise manner. The Coming and the Gathering is held back till the beast is revealed and the rebellion occurs.

.Behold:

 

Perhaps you established that to YOUR satisfaction - but what you wrote is simply not what John wrote. Read it again:

⁶ And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time.

⁷ For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way.

⁸ And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming,

It is the REVEALING that is being restrained or held back.

NIV:  And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

ESV:  And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.

NASB:  And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.

There is a force that is restraining or holding back the man of sin. But for what purpose? It is clear: to prevent him from being revealed until the proper time. 

NIV:  7  ... but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8  And then the lawless one will be revealed...

ESV: 7... Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.  8  And then the lawless one will be revealed...

NASB: 7 ...only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.  8  Then that lawless one will be revealed...

Again it is VERY clear: the restraining is to prevent the revealing of the man of sin. We have seen this now in two different verses each in three translations - all saying the same thing.

Here it is again in the Rotherham Emphasized Bible:

7...only, until, he that restraineth at present, shall be gone, out of the midst: 8  And, then, shall be revealed the lawless one...

So your theory: "The Coming and the Gathering is held back" is total myth. The scripture is very clear here. 

[R. Hartono]

Holy Spirit is still with church now which restrains antichrist

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Holy Spirit is still with church now which restrains antichrist

Agreed! It is the Holy Spirit, working through the church that restrains.