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The Restrainer.....Who....When


JoeCanada

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22 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Mr Spock: if we get into Greek word tenses, things appear a little different that with a first reading of this passage in 2 Thes. 2. 

In other words, those folks thought they were IN the Day of the Lord - not that it was imminent. 

Paul's argument is - when someone SEES the man of sin revealed (enter the temple and declare he is God) then they will know, the Day has already started and they are IN IT.

Your statement then, "PRECEDE" is not accurate.  

1. The apostasia or the departing [of the church as in the rapture or gathering] will certainly precede the man of sin entering the temple.

2. When the man of lawlessness is revealed, the week will have started and they will be IN IT. 

So only ONE THING comes "FIRST" as per Paul: the departing must come first. 

When the man of sin is revealed, the week will have started and then all will KNOW they are in the Day of the Lord. Those people THOUGHT they were in the Day and apparently wrote to Paul for clarification. He showed them how anyone can KNOW they are in the Day of the Lord.

By the way, this fits perfectly with Revelation: the week starts at the 7th seal, and the midpoint is the 7th trumpet - so when the 7th trumpet comes, and the man of sin enters the temple, all will have proof positive that the DAY has started. Keep in mind, Paul wrote his letter LONG before John wrote Revelation.

2 Thess 2:3 has the Word FIRST IN IT....

Transliteration: prōtos

Pronunciation: prō'-tos

Part of Speech: adjective

Root Word (Etymology): Contracted superlative of πρό (G4253)

TDNT Reference: 6:865,965

Outline of Biblical Usage:

first in time or place

in any succession of things or persons

first in rank

influence, honour

chief

principal

first, at the first

 

English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. (The comma after first was man made)


NET Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

Edited by Spock
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39 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I disagree. Satan does not restrain evil - he IS evil. he can be nothing BUT evil. GOD restrains evil.

Excellent! I agree with you. Satan promotes evil, he does not restrain evil. Satan does things like promoting evil and keeping dark secrets, things like that.

If you read 2 Thess 2 you will see that the lawlessness is ALREADY THERE. The spirit of antichrist is ALREADY THERE. What then is being restrained? The secret, the mystery, the identity of the antichrist is being restrained. There is a dark secret, THEN there is a great revealing/exposure.

Satan is literally removed from his place at that moment, 1260 days before the end.

 

Edited by ARGOSY
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48 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 

2. When the man of lawlessness is revealed, the week will have started and they will be IN IT. 

 

LA,

I guess what you are saying is the man of sin is revealed AT THE PEACE TREATY and not the AOD. I showed you, rather eloquently too, how I believe the man of sin is revealed (take off its cover) at the AOD. So it appears to me you don’t put a great emphasis on the man of sin before he becomes the Beast, as I do. 

So, you believe the wrath of God begins immediately after the peace treaty being signed whereby I see the wrath beginning either just prior to or  immediately after the AOD. 

Edited by Spock
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17 minutes ago, Spock said:

LA,

I guess what you are saying is the man of sin is revealed AT THE PEACE TREATY and not the AOD. I showed you, rather eloquently too, how I believe the man of sin is revealed (take off its cover) at the AOD. So it appears to me you don’t put a great emphasis on the man of sin before he becomes the Beast, as I do. 

So, you believe the wrath of God begins immediately after the peace treaty being signed whereby I see the wrath beginning either just prior to or  immediately after the AOD. 

All this time and so many posts and you still don't seem to know what I believe. 

The man of sin is REVEALED when he will enter the temple and declare he is God. It will, without a doubt, but on live camera and the world will see it. At that moment he will be revealed.  Very shortly thereafter he will be possessed by Satan and become the Beast. The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven to mark the time he declares he is God.

I am convinced this treaty will be signed in secret - the world will not know. Else, God would have said he would be revealed at the beginning of the week.  We are agreed, when the man of sin enters the temple, it will BE the AOD.  The only difference is, I believe that moment in time is marked by the 7th trumpet. 

The wrath begins, as I have stated countless times, at the 6th seal where John TELLS US it begins. 

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49 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

Excellent! I agree with you. Satan promotes evil, he does not restrain evil. Satan does things like promoting evil and keeping dark secrets, things like that.

If you read 2 Thess 2 you will see that the lawlessness is ALREADY THERE. The spirit of antichrist is ALREADY THERE. What then is being restrained? The secret, the mystery, the identity of the antichrist is being restrained. There is a dark secret, THEN there is a great revealing/exposure.

Satan is literally removed from his place at that moment, 1260 days before the end.

 

If you believe John in his epistles, he told us that the spirit of Antichrist was already at work when the church was an infant.  So we are in agreement. But this spirit of Antichrist has been at work a very long time.  This spirit has not been restrained. That is not what Paul tells us or what John tells us. We also know lawlessness has been around since the days of Cain and Abel. 

Yes, it is the identity that is secret. But that identity would be exposed the moment someone enters the temple and declares he is God. The truth is, God does not want that to happen before the proper time. GOD rules this time, not Satan. This revealing will not be allowed to take place until God knows it is time.  

No, Satan is NOT removed at that moment in time. The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin declares he is God But the 7th trumpet is also the signal for Michael to go to war with Satan and cast him down - but that will take some time.

 

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6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

If you believe John in his epistles, he told us that the spirit of Antichrist was already at work when the church was an infant.  So we are in agreement. But this spirit of Antichrist has been at work a very long time.  This spirit has not been restrained. That is not what Paul tells us or what John tells us. We also know lawlessness has been around since the days of Cain and Abel. 

Yes, it is the identity that is secret. But that identity would be exposed the moment someone enters the temple and declares he is God. The truth is, God does not want that to happen before the proper time. GOD rules this time, not Satan. This revealing will not be allowed to take place until God knows it is time.  

Very true. Yes antichrist and lawlessness have been around a long time.  I believe Satan is currently keeping that secret, and you are right that God will decide when the restrainer of the secret is removed, and the identity is exposed.  

Edited by ARGOSY
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10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, Satan is NOT removed at that moment in time. The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin declares he is God But the 7th trumpet is also the signal for Michael to go to war with Satan and cast him down - but that will take some time.

 

 woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short.”

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 6

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

The wrath of Satan is associated with a final period of 3.5 years.

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2 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

 woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short.”

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 6

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

The wrath of Satan is associated with a final period of 3.5 years.

Yes, of course he will be angry when He is cast down. We agree. If you notice, John gives us FIVE (5) mentions of the last 3.5 years of the week. Each mention STARTS a countdown to the end. the first is the 42 months of trampling, the second is the 1260 days of testifying, the third is the 1260 days of fleeing, the 4th is the 3.5 years of supernatural protection and feeding, and the 5th is the 42 months of Authority.

It makes good common sense that somewhere in these 5 mentions of the start of the last half of the week, the exact midpoint will be found. In fact, God spoke to me and said I could find that exact midpoint "clearly marked." I did find it. The exact midpoint is marked with the 7th trumpet. Then, two or three seconds later, those in Judea begin to flee, as shown by 12:6.

Michael then is waiting for the sound of the 7th trumpet, for that is his signal to begin the war to take Satan down. This war will only take minutes or hours, NOT weeks or months!  

Notice carefully, here it is the Dragon, or Satan that goes after the woman. But we know he will use the man of sin turned Beast to do it.  Notice also that the fleeing and the war begins in the same chapter. I am convinced the 7th trumpet is the marker for both of these events. It may take two or three seconds of reaction time for those in Judea to begin their flight. It may take Michael a second or two to find Satan.

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9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi JoeCanada,

To me only God can restrain evil, none other has that overarching authority. All others get their authority from God.

It will occur when the Body of Christ purpose is taken out of the way, and then the Lord will execute the judgements of the Father upon the rebellious.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

Thanks for your response. Hope all is well with you.

Yes, I agree that when the Body of Christ (the saints) are taken out of the way, ie: raptured, then the Lord will execute His judgments (wrath)upon the wicked, the unbelievers, the rebellious. 

I see this happening "Immediately after the tribulation of those days......Math 29-31". The dead in Christ are resurrected, and we which are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds.....1 Thes 4:16-18

There is but ONE resurrection/rapture.......the first resurrection...Rev 20:6......and ONE rapture.....1Thes 4:16

Now, about the Restrainer.

I'm leaning toward Michael the Archangel being the Restrainer.

Daniel 12: says "he is the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people....and he will arise". He will stand aside and this is when his protection of the Jewish people will be no more. Satan has been trying for millennia to wipe them out, but couldn't because of Michael. Now Satan  will be able to do just that. It will be a "Holocaust on steroids"....unequaled since the beginning of time and never to be equaled again. When the Anti-christ sets up in Jerusalem, in the temple.......this then starts the Time of Jacobs trouble.... 

What is the very first thing Satan does when he is thrown out of heaven?......Rev 12:13 says he went straight after the Jews.

In 2 Thes 2, Paul reminds the Church at Thessalonica ...."Do you not remember that while I was with you, I was telling you these things? And now you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed"

Paul went to Thessalonica in the Book of Acts in Chapter 17. He went to the synagogue and reasoned with them, Jews, from the Scriptures for 3 Sabbaths. The only Scriptures he had was the Old Testament. And which Scripture from the Old Testament would he have used in talking about the Anti-christ? Probably the book of Daniel. 

Now, would it be more logical for Paul to  reason that it would be Michael, the protector of the Jews, that is holding back the Anti-christ, ........or the church, which had not yet come into being, because Paul was travelling around establishing churches? 

As the OP states, nowhere in Scripture does it state who is holding back the Restrainer.......nowhere!

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Spock said:

Thanks.

btw, my friends call me Mr Spock......

Do they rap? Like we call him Mr. Spock, He aint bovvered by the clock...

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