The Redemption of our Bodies

[Dennis1209]

21 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Dennis1209....

I agree that the EU is doomed. It's literally falling apart at the seams.

But I've never considered the points you made about AI.

Saudi Arabia is building a city, calling it "NEOM". The Gov't is putting 1/2 a trillion dollars into it. It will be the first AI run city.

Enormous in size, 26,500 sq kilometers. That's over 10,000 sq. miles, approx. 220 times the size of San Fransisco.

Islam will be a big player in these end times. 

I believe Satan will control Islam.

Yikes....my head is spinning right now....lol

Interesting times

Yes indeedy, we are living in and witnessing exciting times!

I'm personally on the fence about Islam's role in the tribulation proper. At this moment in history it does seem very plausible. I'm well aware of the two trains of thought on the feet made of iron mixed with miry clay. We have the Gog / Magog invasion on the horizon, and potential Psalm 83: near future confederacy / invasion (of which I'm not certain of either). My reasoning is, based on the 'three' previous Israeli & Muslim wars, and their defeat in the near future Eze 38: - :39 war and possibly the Psalm 83:. I'm thinking Muslim's will seriously question "Allah" and renounce their faith in him maybe. They are going to be dealt some serious blows. Even as we speak, many, many Muslim's are converting to Christianity in Muslim countries, even under penalty of death.

We know Damascus, Syria (Muslim)is going to be leveled to the ground in one hour here shortly. We know Elam (1/6 of SW Iran where the Bushehr nuclear weapons facilities are located) is going to be destroyed (Muslim). And we know Egypt (Muslim) and the Nile River are going to be neutralized. It's my personal opinion one of more of these events might occur prior to, or at the very beginning of the tribulation? 

What's especially interesting watching world events take place, is that everyday things are aligning to fulfill scripture by the day, and is escalating. If the Lord tarries before He comes for His Church, and if the Lord allows me to live long enough at my old age, I wouldn't be surprised to see some major events take place. Whoa wait... I already have, against the world (United Nations) we witnessed the establishment of Jerusalem as Israel's eternal Capitol  ?

[iamlamad]

On 8/15/2018 at 11:06 AM, JoeCanada said:

                                                                                         The Redemption of our Bodies

 

The Apostle Paul talks about the Redemption of our Bodies in Romans 8:23:

"And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the Redemption of our Body"

                                             1 Cor 15:42-44:

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body"

                                             Eph 1:14

" Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the Redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory"

                                              1 Cor 5:2

" For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"

                                             Eph 4:30

" And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of Redemption"

So here in Ephesians, Paul says that there is a DAY of Redemption. When is that DAY? 

Luke tells us EXACTLY when that DAY is: Luke 21:8-27

" ....Many will come in my name, saying I am the Christ.......ye shall hear of wars.....earthquakes, famines and pestilences,.......persecution.....ye shall see Jerusalem surrounded by armies......fall by the edge of the sword.....Jerusalem trodden down.....And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations....mens hearts failing them.......powers of heaven shall be shaken......

.......And THEN they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory........

Verse 28:........"And when these things begin to come to pass, then LOOK UP, and LIFT your heads; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH...."

This is not before the Great Tribulation. This is not pretribulation.

This is when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.

 

Sorry, not a good argument. Why? Because the church will not even be here for this coming.  One cannot make a doctrine out of one verse. It is the same argument if one uses Matthew 24 - it is not His coming for His saints, but rather WITH His saints.  There is going to be a coming FOR His saints pretrib. If you doubt this, you may well be left behind, because you will not be expecting Him. 

[iamlamad]

On 8/19/2018 at 4:55 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Yes indeedy, we are living in and witnessing exciting times!

I'm personally on the fence about Islam's role in the tribulation proper. At this moment in history it does seem very plausible. I'm well aware of the two trains of thought on the feet made of iron mixed with miry clay. We have the Gog / Magog invasion on the horizon, and potential Psalm 83: near future confederacy / invasion (of which I'm not certain of either). My reasoning is, based on the 'three' previous Israeli & Muslim wars, and their defeat in the near future Eze 38: - :39 war and possibly the Psalm 83:. I'm thinking Muslim's will seriously question "Allah" and renounce their faith in him maybe. They are going to be dealt some serious blows. Even as we speak, many, many Muslim's are converting to Christianity in Muslim countries, even under penalty of death.

We know Damascus, Syria (Muslim)is going to be leveled to the ground in one hour here shortly. We know Elam (1/6 of SW Iran where the Bushehr nuclear weapons facilities are located) is going to be destroyed (Muslim). And we know Egypt (Muslim) and the Nile River are going to be neutralized. It's my personal opinion one of more of these events might occur prior to, or at the very beginning of the tribulation? 

What's especially interesting watching world events take place, is that everyday things are aligning to fulfill scripture by the day, and is escalating. If the Lord tarries before He comes for His Church, and if the Lord allows me to live long enough at my old age, I wouldn't be surprised to see some major events take place. Whoa wait... I already have, against the world (United Nations) we witnessed the establishment of Jerusalem as Israel's eternal Capitol  ?

One thing that seems very obvious: Muslims that move to another country, for whatever reason, will not integrate! They will remain a separate people and even when they are a small minority, maybe 2%, they begin making demands. That to me is a perfect example of clay not mixing with iron. 

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, not a good argument. Why? Because the church will not even be here for this coming.  One cannot make a doctrine out of one verse. It is the same argument if one uses Matthew 24 - it is not His coming for His saints, but rather WITH His saints.  There is going to be a coming FOR His saints pretrib. If you doubt this, you may well be left behind, because you will not be expecting Him. 

Hi iamlamad.....

You said......."One cannot make a doctrine out of one verse."

Why not?

Pretrib can make an entire doctrine out of one word......."APOSTASY"
 

[Dennis1209]

15 hours ago, iamlamad said:

One thing that seems very obvious: Muslims that move to another country, for whatever reason, will not integrate! They will remain a separate people and even when they are a small minority, maybe 2%, they begin making demands. That to me is a perfect example of clay not mixing with iron. 

No debate about Muslims not assimilating and their plans and goals globally! But the same can be said of not 'mixing' with the nation federation states of the "European Union" too. 

Kind of boils down to what you believe about Daniel's vision of the colossus he explained to Nebuchadnezzar, the two legs of iron. Some claim the iron legs represent Rome, with the two legs representing the Western leg of the empire, which died out 1,000 years before the Eastern leg (Byzantine), and the Eastern leg is now all Muslim. Others believe the two iron legs represent Islam. Both side of the debate have excellent points.

My life long view has always been the traditional view, that the iron legs are Rome. Some very smart people such as Kent Hovind have changed their traditional view recently that, the two iron legs represent Islam.

Based on my studies of scripture, especially in Revelation, I still cling to the notion that it's Rome. But I'm not dogmatic about it. One thing I keep in mind when I study this, the RCC was established and in operation some 400 years prior to Mohammad. 

[iamlamad]

5 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

No debate about Muslims not assimilating and their plans and goals globally! But the same can be said of not 'mixing' with the nation federation states of the "European Union" too. 

Kind of boils down to what you believe about Daniel's vision of the colossus he explained to Nebuchadnezzar, the two legs of iron. Some claim the iron legs represent Rome, with the two legs representing the Western leg of the empire, which died out 1,000 years before the Eastern leg (Byzantine), and the Eastern leg is now all Muslim. Others believe the two iron legs represent Islam. Both side of the debate have excellent points.

My life long view has always been the traditional view, that the iron legs are Rome. Some very smart people such as Kent Hovind have changed their traditional view recently that, the two iron legs represent Islam.

Based on my studies of scripture, especially in Revelation, I still cling to the notion that it's Rome. But I'm not dogmatic about it. One thing I keep in mind when I study this, the RCC was established and in operation some 400 years prior to Mohammad. 

I think BOTH legs were Rome. But the Eastern leg has certainly turned out to be Muslim nations.  However, so many Muslims have migrated into European nations, we now see both feet as iron mixed with clay. 

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi iamlamad.....

You said......."One cannot make a doctrine out of one verse."

Why not?

Pretrib can make an entire doctrine out of one word......."APOSTASY"
 

Sorry, but we are here (I hope) to learn truth. That means finding a doctrine that fits ALL end times scriptures. 

Since you mention this one word, will you at least admit that in context, this word must be the power restraining being moved out of the way? 

[Dennis1209]

4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I think BOTH legs were Rome. But the Eastern leg has certainly turned out to be Muslim nations.  However, so many Muslims have migrated into European nations, we now see both feet as iron mixed with clay. 

Excellent point!

[iamlamad]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:52 AM, Dennis1209 said:

No debate about Muslims not assimilating and their plans and goals globally! But the same can be said of not 'mixing' with the nation federation states of the "European Union" too. 

Kind of boils down to what you believe about Daniel's vision of the colossus he explained to Nebuchadnezzar, the two legs of iron. Some claim the iron legs represent Rome, with the two legs representing the Western leg of the empire, which died out 1,000 years before the Eastern leg (Byzantine), and the Eastern leg is now all Muslim. Others believe the two iron legs represent Islam. Both side of the debate have excellent points.

My life long view has always been the traditional view, that the iron legs are Rome. Some very smart people such as Kent Hovind have changed their traditional view recently that, the two iron legs represent Islam.

Based on my studies of scripture, especially in Revelation, I still cling to the notion that it's Rome. But I'm not dogmatic about it. One thing I keep in mind when I study this, the RCC was established and in operation some 400 years prior to Mohammad. 

One reason I believe the beast religion will be Islam is what John tells us about the "antichrist." John tells us the Antichrist will not confess "the Father and the Son."  Then confess ONLY "the Father" but call him allah. They DENY the Son. It seems that Islam fits what John wrote perfectly. Then, when we consider that those ancient "heads" (7 of them  - 5 fallen in John's day) as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome as the one that in John's day "is" I find most of these are now Muslim nations. Well, Iraq (Babylon) was, but it seems Iraq received a deadly wound and the king killed. Will Iraq return as a Muslim Brotherhood nation? I am expecting it. 

Then we consider that the Islamic prophecies of their 12 Imam, fits the bible description of "the Beast" perfectly also. 

Today we find the most hate for Israel comes from all the Islamic countries. Therefore, with all the evidence, it just makes sense that the Beast will be making the world Islamic. The whole world then will be deceived into denying the SON and so losing their only chance of salvation. 

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

One reason I believe the beast religion will be Islam is what John tells us about the "antichrist." John tells us the Antichrist will not confess "the Father and the Son."  Then confess ONLY "the Father" but call him allah. They DENY the Son. It seems that Islam fits what John wrote perfectly. Then, when we consider that those ancient "heads" (7 of them  - 5 fallen in John's day) as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome as the one that in John's day "is" I find most of these are now Muslim nations. Well, Iraq (Babylon) was, but it seems Iraq received a deadly wound and the king killed. Will Iraq return as a Muslim Brotherhood nation? I am expecting it. 

Then we consider that the Islamic prophecies of their 12 Imam, fits the bible description of "the Beast" perfectly also. 

Today we find the most hate for Israel comes from all the Islamic countries. Therefore, with all the evidence, it just makes sense that the Beast will be making the world Islamic. The whole world then will be deceived into denying the SON and so losing their only chance of salvation. 

Yeah, some well known and knowledgeable people I respect have changed their view of the role of Islam and the Antichrist will be Muslim. I'm not changing my view though, for too many biblical reasons to discuss at the moment. 

But consider this: A Jew would never accept a Muslim as their Messiah under any condition, period. What would happen to a Muslim man if he stood up and declared himself to be God (Allah)? The Muslims would not accept him and he would quickly be decapitated.