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When Three Unclean Frog-like Spirits Of Devils Go Forth


Michael37

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5 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Do you refer to the Rapture as the 2nd time for His saints ?

Exactly: He will come NEXT as in His second coming, as Paul describes in 1 Thes. 4. He will come the third time as John shows us in Rev. 19.

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21 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

In Rev 13, three beasts are mentioned; The first resembling a leopard, bear and lion.  This goes back to Daniel 7, The lion (Babylon), The bear (Medo-Persia)
The leopard (Greece).  This is the final world empire which exhibits all these attributes.  Now one of the leaders of this empire had a fatal wound, he came to life and the whole world followed him (Antichrist); the third beast being the False Prophet.  All three are mentioned in Rev 16:12-16.  Later this beast and False Prophet are the first to be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 19:20).  Which is intended for fallen angels and the souls of the unjust.

In Christ

Montana Marv

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

Note the seven heads are "mountains" or nations or kingdoms, and each has a king.  Five of these had passed away at the time John saw this vision. Many commentators suggest that these five are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia,  and Greece. They had come and gone by John's day.  Supposing these are indeed what John suggested, what nation would Assyria be today? Of course Syria. What would Babylon be today? Iraq. And Medo-Persia would be Iran. 

In recent years has any of these been under the "sword" of war, and a king received a deadly wound and killed? The "king" or leader of Syria is still alive. But the "king" of Iraq was put to death by hanging. Would this be a "deadly wound?" I think hanging makes people just as dead as any other means. 

Perhaps then it is not the Antichrist man that receives the deadly wound, it is one of the heads of his kingdom. 

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5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

Note the seven heads are "mountains" or nations or kingdoms, and each has a king.  Five of these had passed away at the time John saw this vision. Many commentators suggest that these five are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia,  and Greece. They had come and gone by John's day.  Supposing these are indeed what John suggested, what nation would Assyria be today? Of course Syria. What would Babylon be today? Iraq. And Medo-Persia would be Iran. 

In recent years has any of these been under the "sword" of war, and a king received a deadly wound and killed? The "king" or leader of Syria is still alive. But the "king" of Iraq was put to death by hanging. Would this be a "deadly wound?" I think hanging makes people just as dead as any other means. 

Perhaps then it is not the Antichrist man that receives the deadly wound, it is one of the heads of his kingdom. 

So which world leader is being followed. The A/C or someone else. I say the A/C.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

So which world leader is being followed. The A/C or someone else. I say the A/C.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I guess I don't understand the question. To be sure, the Beast is alive on earth today, but I don't think ANYONE knows who it is. Well, some have said it was a former president of our nation!  The truth is, it will be someone who is very well spoken, and one who seems to be able to solve problems. Probably it will be someone whose birth certificate is hidden and whose lineage is not at this time known. He may not at this point in time be in any kind of leadership position.

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21 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I guess I don't understand the question. To be sure, the Beast is alive on earth today, but I don't think ANYONE knows who it is. Well, some have said it was a former president of our nation!  The truth is, it will be someone who is very well spoken, and one who seems to be able to solve problems. Probably it will be someone whose birth certificate is hidden and whose lineage is not at this time known. He may not at this point in time be in any kind of leadership position.

This is just my take:

Ezk 38 & 39 war.  Islam is totally dissolved.  According to Ezk 39:2 KJV says 5/6ths of the invading armies are killed.  In this process I believe that one or more world leaders will be killed, assassinated. One of these. while laying in a casket being viewed by millions of people sits up and stands. The whole world was astonished and followed this beast (Rev 13:3-4).  Most likely a European.

So IMHO the Rapture will occur sometime before or near this war.  Cause and Effect; World chaos following Rapture, allowing this invasion, followed by the  A/C and world peace to a degree.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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17 hours ago, Adstar said:

These verses state we shall be caught up into the clouds .. It does not say we shall be caught up into heaven... Indeed it states we shall be caught up .. meaning we shall be below the clouds on that day to be caught up to meet the returning LORD,, We will not be coming down with Jesus from heaven to the clouds...

They state we shall from thence forth always be with our LORD Jesus Christ.. and so we shall..

This is talking about the second coming of Jesus when indeed there shall be a trumpet blast..

Matthew 24: KJV

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

 

I have no problem accepting that we shall be robed in white in eternity..

 

A few commentaries concurr with the saints being in the armies from heaven at Armageddon, which battle ensues after the harpazo. 

From John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
 

Quote

 

Revelation 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven,.... Not the angels, though they are God's host, and are the armies of the heavens; they are in heaven, and dwell there, and follow Christ, attend upon him, and minister to him, and have been sometimes represented by horses and horsemen, 2Ki_2:11 and they are pure and holy creatures, and will come with Christ to judgment: but this vision refers not to the day of judgment; and besides, the saints are meant, as appears by their habit, for the fine linen, white and clean, is the righteousness of the saints, Rev_19:8 and the righteousness of angels and saints is not the same. Moreover, these are the same company described in Rev_17:14. The saints are in a state of warfare, have many enemies to fight with, sin, Satan, and the world; they are enlisted as volunteers under Christ, the Captain of salvation; they are provided with the whole armour of God, and are very numerous, and always more than conquerors through Christ: these are described by the place where they were, "in heaven"; not being glorified saints in heaven; with these indeed Christ will come to judgment, even with all his saints with him; but members of the church militant, said to be in heaven, because that is often called the kingdom of heaven; and because their names are written in heaven, and they are of heavenly extract; they are born from above, and are partakers of the heavenly calling; they belong to heaven, they are citizens of it, and are pressing on to it. And these 

followed him; Christ, their Leader and Commander in the exercise of grace, and in the discharge of duty; having gone on in his ways through a train of sufferings, and cleaved unto him, and now attend him; not to assist in fighting, but to add to the glorious and triumphant appearance of their General; and therefore are said to be 

upon white horses; they had served Christ in his Gospel, which some of them had preached, and all professed, and had maintained the purity of it in doctrine and practice, and now triumphed in Christ, and along with him, riding upon horses of the same colour with his, as being his princes and nobles, and whom he had made kings as well as priests; the former may be signified by their horses; see Jdg_5:10 and the latter by their following habit, 

clothed in fine linen, white and clean; not the horses, but the armies on them; which designs not their inward purity, which was very glorious; nor their outward conversation garments, washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb; but the robe of Christ's righteousness, which is pure and spotless: these have no armour on, for they are not to strike a blow, only their General, who has the bloody garment on, is to tread the winepress, and destroy antichrist with the breath of his mouth, or with his sword proceeding out of it, as follows.

 

From Matthew Henry's Commentary On The Whole Bible:

Quote

II. The army which he commands (Rev_19:14), a very large one, made up of many armies; angels and saints followed his conduct, and resembled him in their equipage, and in their armour of purity and righteousness - chosen, and called, and faithful.

From Jamieson Fausset and Brown Commentary
 

Quote

 

Revelation 19:14

the armies ... in heaven — Compare “the horse bridles,” Rev_14:20. The glorified saints whom God “will bring with” Christ at His advent; compare Rev_17:14, “they that are with Him, called, chosen, faithful”; as also “His mighty angels.”
white and clean — Greek, “pure.” A, B, Vulgate, Syriac, and Cyprian omit “and,” which Origen and Andreas retain, as English Version.

 

 

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16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Rev. 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

WHAT "great city?"

 

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
 
No metaphors, just plain English that make sense in the plain and normal sense.
Why not believe with is plainly written? Why make something up with human reasoning that is not scriptural?
 

THE GOLDEN RULE OF INTERPRETATION

When the plain sense of the scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; Therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning in the original languages unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic (self-evident) and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.

No doubt Jerusalem is a great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, and no doubt Jerusalem is the whereabouts of our Lord's crucifixtion, but to infer that the whore of Babylon is in view here because it is depicted as that great city that rules over the kings of the earth is to go beyond that which is written. Jerusalem hasn't a very good track record on that score, but metaphorical Babylon, meaning "confusion", now we are talking.  No doubt there are differing opinions among commentators, so be it. 

From Jameison Fausset and Brown Commentary Rev. 17:5

Quote

 If Rome were the only seat of Babylon, much of the spiritual profit of Revelation would be lost to us; but the harlot “sitteth upon many waters” (Rev_17:1), and “ALL nations have drunk of the wine of her fornication” (Rev_17:2; Rev_18:3; “the earth,” Rev_19:2). External extensiveness over the whole world and internal conformity to the world - worldliness in extent and contents - is symbolized by the name of the world city, “Babylon.” As the sun shines on all the earth, thus the woman clothed with the sun is to let her light penetrate to the uttermost parts of the earth. But she, in externally Christianizing the world, permits herself to be seduced by the world; thus her universality or catholicity is not that of the Jerusalem which we look for (“the MOTHER of us all,” Rev_21:2; Isa_2:2-4; Gal_4:26), but that of Babylon, the world-wide but harlot city! (As Babylon was destroyed, and the Jews restored to Jerusalem by Cyrus, so our Cyrus - a Persian name meaning the sun - the Sun of righteousness, shall bring Israel, literal and spiritual, to the holy Jerusalem at His coming. Babylon and Jerusalem are the two opposite poles of the spiritual world). Still, the Romish Church is not only accidentally and as a matter of fact, but in virtue of its very PRINCIPLE, a harlot, the metropolis of whoredom, “the mother of harlots”; whereas the evangelical Protestant Church is, according to her principle and fundamental creed, a chaste woman; the Reformation was a protest of the woman against the harlot. The spirit of the heathen world kingdom Rome had, before the Reformation, changed the Church in the West into a Church-State, Rome; and in the East, into a State-Church, fettered by the world power, having its center in Byzantium; the Roman and Greek churches have thus fallen from the invisible spiritual essence of the Gospel into the elements of the world [Auberlen]. Compare with the “woman” called “Babylon” here, the woman named “wickedness,” or “lawlessness,” “iniquity” (Zec_5:7, Zec_5:8, Zec_5:11), carried to Babylon: compare “the mystery of iniquity” and “the man of sin,” “that wicked one,” literally, “the lawless one” (2Th_2:7, 2Th_2:8; also Mat_24:12).

From Albert Barnes' Notes On The Bible Rev.17:5 

Quote

Babylon the great - papal Rome, the nominal head of the Christian world, as Babylon had been of the pagan world. See the notes on Rev_14:8.
The mother of harlots - 
(a)    Of that spiritual apostasy from God which, in the language of the prophets, might be called adultery. See the notes on Rev_14:8.
(b)    The promoter of lewdness by her institutions. See the notes on Rev_9:21. In both these senses, there never was a more expressive or appropriate title than the one here employed.
And abominations of the earth - Abominable things that prevail on the earth, Rev_17:4. Compare the notes on Rev_9:20-21.

 

Edited by Michael37
word misplaced
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2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

This is just my take:

Ezk 38 & 39 war.  Islam is totally dissolved.  According to Ezk 39:2 KJV says 5/6ths of the invading armies are killed.  In this process I believe that one or more world leaders will be killed, assassinated. One of these. while laying in a casket being viewed by millions of people sits up and stands. The whole world was astonished and followed this beast (Rev 13:3-4).  Most likely a European.

So IMHO the Rapture will occur sometime before or near this war.  Cause and Effect; World chaos following Rapture, allowing this invasion, followed by the  A/C and world peace to a degree.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I think this war is the very same as the battle of Armageddon. 

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4 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

No doubt Jerusalem is a great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, and no doubt Jerusalem is the whereabouts of our Lord's crucifixtion, but to infer that the whore of Babylon is in view here because it is depicted as that great city that rules over the kings of the earth is to go beyond that which is written. Jerusalem hasn't a very good track record on that score, but metaphorical Babylon, meaning "confusion", now we are talking.  No doubt there are differing opinions among commentators, so be it. 

From Jameison Fausset and Brown Commentary Rev. 17:5

From Albert Barnes' Notes On The Bible Rev.17:5 

 

I already knew most of the commentators were fixated on Rome. I disagree with all of them!  What I base this on is both that John tells us it is the great city, which he had already identified as Jerusalem, but also the fact that the Beast and False prophet will be deceiving the ENTIRE WORLD from Jerusalem.

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16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is a theory - and today a very popular theory - but it is a wrong theory that will not fit all the end times scriptures. First, it ignores John 14.  Then it ignores what Paul tells us for timing - the WHEN of the rapture - in 1 Thes. 5.

Next, it ignores WHERE this gathering of the elect is gathered FROM. 

Next, it ignores WHERE and WHEN the marriage supper will take place. 

Finally, it ignores the truth that it robs the sheep and goat judgment of sheep and the Millennial reign of Godly people in natural bodies to repopulate the species.

Only statements no supporting points given at all..

HOW does it ignore John 14

HOW does it conflict with the supposed timing of the rapture in 1 Thess 5

HOW does it ignore where this gathering of the elect is from..

HOW can a parrable be used to state it is a literal happening ""marriage supper""  Taking a parable of a marriahe feast and saying that it is not symbolic of something but literal when Parables ARE Symbolic...

How does it contradict the judgement of the Goat and Sheep

And WHAT support do you have that Saints shall exist in ""natural bodies"" during the Millenium and will take wives and husbands and have children to repopulate??

So many statements you have made without any Biblical support...

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