So Where Are We Now?

[RevelationWriter]

10 hours ago, Salty said:

Heb 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
KJV

"Death" was capitalized as a pronoun in Rev.6:8, as we are told that's the name of the rider on the 4th seal pale horse. That's another title for Satan himself, as he was given the power of death.

So hell following after him is pointing to his working, and the working of his servants on earth.

 

The 4 parts: (possibly, as symbols): someone once said there are 4 main categories one can break every operation on earth down into - the political, finance, military, religion:

1. "to kill with the sword" - control of a global army, the U.N. army being just a startup

2. "and with hunger" - world finance in control of the economies of nations through international banking

3. "and with death" - spiritual death through false religion, which is MUCH greater than flesh death; it's about deception

4. "and with the beasts of the earth" - the political; the "brute beasts" world controllers.

 

Since the 5th Seal is about persecution of the saints with being delivered up to Satan's host and beheaded, that points to 7 years or "one week" of Dan.9:27. The working of the locust army would be just prior to that, and that's who I believe the forth part of the working on the earth is about, those being symbols for the locusts of the Book of Joel and Revelation 9.

 

- "Look at Israel by natural descent have not those who eat of The Sacrifices communion with The Altar?" - 1Cor.10:18 Greek

"under The Altar ...rest for A Time (1yr?) until their fellow servants also and their Brethren (144,000) that were about to be killed as they were should finish their course." - Rev.6:11 Greek

* Lots to do got to run . . .

 

 

 

[Salty]

3 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

- "Look at Israel by natural descent have not those who eat of The Sacrifices communion with The Altar?" - 1Cor.10:18 Greek

"under The Altar ...rest for A Time (1yr?) until their fellow servants also and their Brethren (144,000) that were about to be killed as they were should finish their course." - Rev.6:11 Greek

* Lots to do got to run . . .

I don't know who you've been listening to, but the brethren yet to be killed as the souls under the altar asked how long, are not just about the 144,000 of Rev.7. In Rev.7, there 2 separate groups given, the 144,000, and the "great multitude". The 144,000 represent the sealed of Israelites (of ALL 12 tribes, not just Jews), and then the "great multitude" are the Gentiles that are sealed who ALSO will go through the time of great tribulation.

Some from 'both' groups will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus at the end (Mark 13; Rev.13; Rev.11:7 includes 2 candlesticks which means 2 Churches).

We are NOT going to be raptured prior to the tribulation. That idea is man's folly, not The Word of God.

 

[RevelationWriter]

18 hours ago, Salty said:

I don't know who you've been listening to, but the brethren yet to be killed as the souls under the altar asked how long, are not just about the 144,000 of Rev.7. In Rev.7, there 2 separate groups given, the 144,000, and the "great multitude". The 144,000 represent the sealed of Israelites (of ALL 12 tribes, not just Jews), and then the "great multitude" are the Gentiles that are sealed who ALSO will go through the time of great tribulation.

Some from 'both' groups will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus at the end (Mark 13; Rev.13; Rev.11:7 includes 2 candlesticks which means 2 Churches).

We are NOT going to be raptured prior to the tribulation. That idea is man's folly, not The Word of God.

 

- 12,000 from each of The 12 Tribes = Only 144,000. You can't add some other uncertain amount to this total. (Davidic Kingdom on earth 1,000 yrs)

The 144,000 are Sealed from being Tormented For 5 Months they are not Sealed from death by the beast for not worshiping the beast - Rev.Rev13:15

They are in spirit Rev.14 after they are killed for not worshiping the beast they're as the angels not flesh which is defiled of being fleshly born of women into sin.

 

- And there is No Scriptures Of The Great Multitude Dying At All.

This is "The Marriage Of The Lamb" they are raptured out of The Great Trib and led to Fountains Of Living Waters by The lamb for keeping their flesh alive.

Later The Great Multitude Come To "The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb" - Rev.19

After New Jerusalem Comes To The New Earth (the unconsummated 'Bride' TGM) whom The King has not lived with yet as He leaves on His white horse (Rev.19:11).  After the 1,000 yrs of The Davidic Kingdom on earth, when New Jerusalem to the New Earth the unconsummated 'Bride' will bid those of the New Earth to Come into New Jerusalem and Take The Water Of Life Freely.

But of course The 144,000 who'll follow Jesus wherever He goes will be able during the 1,000 yrs to visit New Heavenly Jerusalem through their appointed gates to get The Living Water with Him.

- Gentiles are not of The Davidic Kingdom (144,000-1,000 yrs) of when Jesus sits on His father David's Throne.

* Jesus told His 12 Disciples that "In The Regeneration" (1,000 yrs) when He Sits On His Throne Of Glory

They Too would Sit on 12 Thrones Judging The 12 Tribes Of Israel (1444,000) - Mat.19:28

 

* The 24 Elders say they are a Kingdom Of Priests who will Reign on the earth also. - Rev.5:10

King David & Priest Zadok established The 24 Divisions Of The Priesthood. - 1Chron.24

The 24 Elders have Crows which they cast to God's Throne. - Rev.4:10 - Jesus (high Priest) brings with Him "Many Crowns" when they come with Him - Rev.19:12 &14

 

1.) King Jesus to sit on David's Throne

2.) The 12 Judges Apostles Of The Lamb For The 12 Tribes Of Israel 1444,000

3. The 12 Tribes Of All The Children Of Israel 144,000

4.) The 24 Elders Of God's Priesthood of Israel

All while The Great Multitude are in heavenly New Jerusalem till the 1,000 years are over and New Jerusalem comes to the new earth with The Bride inside adorned as a bride for her Husband on The New Earth to live with Him.

* Jesus Does Not Marry Israel.  God Is Already Married To Israel. - Jer.3:14

 

- We have believed false church doctrines which has interpreted other wise. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by RevelationWriter

[iamlamad]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:57 AM, Diaste said:

This may seem off topic...

When did we get to truth consisting of, "I think....", or "I believe..." instead of, "The Lord says...", "As it is written...", or "The scriptures say..."?

I don't see where it's ok just to believe anything and it's truth.

 

Case in point: "power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

I have heard countless people say that "1/4 of the people will be killed!" 

That is not at all the intent of this verse! In fact, this verse does not say anything about the number killed.  What it does say is it limits the theater of operation of the Red horse and rider, the Black horse and rider and the Pale horse and rider, to 1/4 of the earth. Since the intent of the Author is that the first seal be the CHURCH, sent out with the GOSPEL, and the last three horsemen to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the Gospel, of course then the CENTER POINT of this one fourth of the earth would be Jerusalem where the Gospel began.

Since we know in advance that others will deny this meaning, I say then it is OK to day "I believe." If we say "God said" we will be told that is not at all what God said. It all comes down to the glasses we read with. Preconceived glasses can be a terrible thing, preventing people from learning the truth of a scripture.

[iamlamad]

21 hours ago, Salty said:

I don't know who you've been listening to, but the brethren yet to be killed as the souls under the altar asked how long, are not just about the 144,000 of Rev.7. In Rev.7, there 2 separate groups given, the 144,000, and the "great multitude". The 144,000 represent the sealed of Israelites (of ALL 12 tribes, not just Jews), and then the "great multitude" are the Gentiles that are sealed who ALSO will go through the time of great tribulation.

Some from 'both' groups will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus at the end (Mark 13; Rev.13; Rev.11:7 includes 2 candlesticks which means 2 Churches).

We are NOT going to be raptured prior to the tribulation. That idea is man's folly, not The Word of God.

 

AS I have said time and again, if you wish to be left behind, that is between you and God. I believe He will give you your desires. Please don't try and convince others to follow you into such foolhardiness!  There Is an escape plan, and Paul told us about it. The Bride of Christ will be in heaven for the 7 years. You, it seems, are choosing to be on earth. I hope that works out for you!

[Salty]

8 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

- 12,000 from each of The 12 Tribes = Only 144,000. You can't add some other uncertain amount to this total. (Davidic Kingdom on earth 1,000 yrs)

The 144,000 are Sealed from being Tormented For 5 Months they are not Sealed from death by the beast for not worshiping the beast - Rev.Rev13:15

They are in spirit Rev.14 after they are killed for not worshiping the beast they're as the angels not flesh which is defiled of being fleshly born of women into sin.

 

- And there is No Scriptures Of The Great Multitude Dying At All.

This is "The Marriage Of The Lamb" they are raptured out of The Great Trib and led to Fountains Of Living Waters by The lamb for keeping their flesh alive.

Later The Great Multitude Come To "The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb" - Rev.19
 

I've got to assume from what you've written so far that you hold to the doctrine of men called the Pre-trib Rapture. I do not, nor do I find that doctrine written anywhere... in God's Word.

The 144,000 of Israel does not mean they all will be beheaded or delivered up. It simply means an elect group of Israelites that God has preserved so they won't fall away to the coming Antichrist. It does not include anyone from the past, but only those of the final generation. And only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent the Israelites called Jews. The rest are from the ten northern tribes of Israel which are lost, and were never known as Jews. Even the Jews don't know who and where the ten lost tribes of Israel are. (the ten tribes lost their heritage as part of Israel. If you don't know this Bible history, then you've got a lot of catching up to do in OT study).

Rev 7:13-14
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
KJV

That idea of their having come out of "great tribulation" and washed their robes in the blood of The Lamb (Jesus) means THEY WENT THROUGH THE TRIBULATION and overcame. They did not... fly away, like your doctrine of men wrongly teaches. The Revelation 7 chapter is about God's sealing of His servants prior to the 'day of the Lord" that ends this world. That "great multitude" represent saved Gentiles being shown John in the future... at the time after Christ's return.

In Revelation 19, the Rev.19:1-9 verses are ALL of the time AFTER Christ's second coming! That is when the marriage supper will take place, i.e, in His Kingdom, which means AFTER the tribulation. My point is, the marriage supper cannot happen at ANY other time than the time Christ's future Millennium. So no rapture prior to the end of the tribulation, which is actually a doctrine of men.

And ah... the living waters, you haven't been studying your OT Bible, tche, tche, tche, shame on you... because those living waters are about God's River that flows out from under the threshold of the sanctuary of Ezekiel, during Christ's future Millennium reign! (See Ezekiel 47, as it is ON EARTH).

It really saddens me that so many of my Christian brothers and sisters have to put up with preachers that don't know their OT Bible as well as the NT. The last 9 chapters of the Book of Ezekiel are all about the future "thousand years" reign by our Lord Jesus and His elect, in Jerusalem, on earth. Even Revelation 20 shows that dwelling as the "camp of the saints" on earth. They don't even consider even Genesis 2 which first mentioned God's River in His Garden of Eden, flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth! Instead, some preacher who preaches as a business like a hireling (John 10) tells brethren all that is up in the clouds away from the earth somewhere! They create an imaginary la, la land, simply because they have no understanding of these things in God's Word! It saddens me (yet God spoke of this problem too - Jeremiah 23; Ezekiel 13; John 10; Acts 20:29).

Quote

After New Jerusalem Comes To The New Earth (the unconsummated 'Bride' TGM) whom The King has not lived with yet as He leaves on His white horse (Rev.19:11).  After the 1,000 yrs of The Davidic Kingdom on earth, when New Jerusalem to the New Earth the unconsummated 'Bride' will bid those of the New Earth to Come into New Jerusalem and Take The Water Of Life Freely.

That's confusing. The New Jerusalem is for the new heavens, and a new earth timing, which is after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign, and after the "lake of fire" destroys the devil, death, hell, and the wicked. God's River will manifest on earth DURING Christ's 'thousand years" reign, as written in Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 47.

Zech 14:7-9
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
KJV

That "one day which shall be know to the LORD" is about the day of Christ's second coming. That is when those "livings waters shall go out from Jerusalem". Notice it didn't say those waters shall go out from Heaven, nor from the clouds. It's about future Jerusalem ON EARTH. The Ezekiel 47 chapter even names the areas of Engedi in the middle east with that River. So come back down to earth now, and get out of the clouds, the clouds are not going to be our home.

Quote

Gentiles are not of The Davidic Kingdom (144,000-1,000 yrs) of when Jesus sits on His father David's Throne.

* Jesus told His 12 Disciples that "In The Regeneration" (1,000 yrs) when He Sits On His Throne Of Glory

They Too would Sit on 12 Thrones Judging The 12 Tribes Of Israel (1444,000) - Mat.19:28

You're definitely wrong there.

Christ's elect will rule over all nations on earth during Christ's future thousand years reign. That means Christ's Church. And like Paul said, there is no difference between Jew or Greek (put for Gentile), we are all ONE BODY in Christ Jesus.

The doctrine you're preaching is false. It comes from the Edward Irving and John Darby history in 1830's Great Britain. For over 1,800 years, no pre-trib rapture idea was ever taught in any Christian Church.

Quote

The 24 Elders say they are a Kingdom Of Priests who will Reign on the earth also. - Rev.5:10

King David & Priest Zadok established The 24 Divisions Of The Priesthood. - 1Chron.24

The 24 Elders have Crows which they cast to God's Throne. - Rev.4:10 - Jesus (high Priest) brings with Him "Many Crowns" when they come with Him - Rev.19:12 &14

You have well left the topic of discussion of my post by now. Should I continue to rebut your doctrines of men? Well... maybe a little more...

The 24 elders most likely represent the 12 Patriarchs and 12 Apostles. And the timeline view there in Rev.5 about that is a FUTURE VIEW in Christ's Millennial Kingdom, on earth.

In Ezekiel 44, we are shown that only the Zadok (the Just) are allowed to approach Jesus at His table and serve Him. At the same time, we are shown that the Levites which went astray when Israel went astray, will only be allowed to do the menial duties in that future sanctuary on earth and will not be allowed to approach Jesus. In Rev.3, Jesus promised to the Church of Philadelphia that He would make the false Jews of the synagogue of Satan to come worship at their feet, which suggests Christ will be right next to His elect of that Church.

My point, thus the Zadok (the Just) of Ezekiel 44 are the faithful elect of Christ's Church which will be near Him in that time (i.e., the marriage supper)! Jesus is our King of Righteousness, Melchizedek, which is where that name Zadok comes from which means 'righteousness, or just'.

That's about as far as I care to go.

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Salty

[Revelation Man]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:25 PM, RevelationWriter said:

On 8/23/2018 at 12:04 PM, Revelation Man said:

well like I said, weird. 

- "...Seven Heads Are Seven Mountains..." - Rev.17:9

- "...The Ten Horns Are Ten Kings..." - Rev.17:12

"...have received no Kingdom as yet..." - Rev.17:12

"...give their Kingdom to the beast..." - Rev.17:17

Not Kingdoms. The Ten Kings will be of one mind and one 'Kingdom".

Do you even know what you are trying to say yourself ? I think I can unravel your intent, but its a jumbled mess.

The Seven Kings are SEVEN MOUNTAINS and they are ALSO 7 Kings, 5 gave Fallen.........ONE IS.......and one is YET TO COME. 

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there (THEY ARE ALSO is the proper translation) are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

So the Seven Heads (Kingdoms) as we are shown in Rev. 13 via the Leopard, Bear and Lion being a part of the Seven Headed Beast. One of the Heads was WOUNDED (Rome) then it is HEALED (Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem). Looking back in time we understand before Daniel that Egypt and Assyria were Mediterranean Beasts over the Region also, thus you have SEVEN HEADS (Egypt, Assyria, then from Daniel....Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the COMING Anti-Christ Man) which are Seven Kingdoms. 

So the Seven Heads are Seven Mountains (Kingdoms) on which the Harlot (False Religion) sits, and they are ALSO Kings that have Fallen (God is REDUCING these Kingdoms to the LAST KINGS of every Kingdom, thus Kings who have FALLEN........5 have Fallen....ONE IS (yet he will fall) and one is YET TO COME !! God wants us to look at the LAST KINGS ONLY for a specified reason, the LAST KING will be different from all the Previous Kingdoms in that he will be the BEAST HIMSELF, because he never passes his kingdom on to another, so whereas they were BEAST KINGDOMS, this man s the BEAST that Conquers Israel and when he dies he will have been the ONLY BEAST during this Kingdom. God wants us to know that, sh he REDUCES the Kingdoms to Kings that HAVE FALLEN !! It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with 7 Mountains per se. FALSE FLAG. 

Thus the 10 Horns that Give their Power to the Beast make up the LAST BEAST SYSTEM with the Last of the Beast Head. 

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Case in point: "power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

I have heard countless people say that "1/4 of the people will be killed!" 

That is not at all the intent of this verse! In fact, this verse does not say anything about the number killed.  What it does say is it limits the theater of operation of the Red horse and rider, the Black horse and rider and the Pale horse and rider, to 1/4 of the earth. Since the intent of the Author is that the first seal be the CHURCH, sent out with the GOSPEL, and the last three horsemen to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the Gospel, of course then the CENTER POINT of this one fourth of the earth would be Jerusalem where the Gospel began.

You might not be wrong here, but I don't think this refers to a single location containing 1/4 of the total land mass. It could as easily refer to a total of 1/4 of the land mass from places all over the earth. But in either case it's 1/4 of EARTH, not people. So...agreed, even as it still could mean people. Can't kill soil with hunger, the sword and beasts and death. This is where the idea comes from that 1/4 of the population is killed here.

16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Since we know in advance that others will deny this meaning, I say then it is OK to day "I believe." If we say "God said" we will be told that is not at all what God said. It all comes down to the glasses we read with. Preconceived glasses can be a terrible thing, preventing people from learning the truth of a scripture.

Who cares if other people tell you 'that's not what God said"? You say that to me all the time. And what glasses are you wearing? 

[iamlamad]

58 minutes ago, Diaste said:

You might not be wrong here, but I don't think this refers to a single location containing 1/4 of the total land mass. It could as easily refer to a total of 1/4 of the land mass from places all over the earth. But in either case it's 1/4 of EARTH, not people. So...agreed, even as it still could mean people. Can't kill soil with hunger, the sword and beasts and death. This is where the idea comes from that 1/4 of the population is killed here.

Who cares if other people tell you 'that's not what God said"? You say that to me all the time. And what glasses are you wearing? 

When God pushed me into studying Revelation, I determined to know NOTHING except what He taught me. For the first 4 years or so, I think I did very well with this. But it is very difficult to NOT use human reasoning when one reads and God is silent. I will therefore admit, some of what I write is indeed my own reasoning. However, the foundation of what I teach came from revelation knowledge - what God taught me. 

Therefore, IF I have glasses, it is human reasoning glasses - the same as everyone else here! If you find the way I read a scripture as something that you believe cannot possibly be the intent of the Author, don't hesitate to show us your take on it.

[Diaste]

25 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 However, the foundation of what I teach came from revelation knowledge - what God taught me. 

Possibly, but when this claimed knowledge supersedes the Apostles, Jesus, the prophets, and common sense I don't think it originates from the claimed source.

25 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Therefore, IF I have glasses, it is human reasoning glasses - the same as everyone else here! 

If? Then, "the same as everyone else here!"? Which is it? I specify when I'm speculating, or I cite passages of scripture. 

25 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 If you find the way I read a scripture as something that you believe cannot possibly be the intent of the Author, don't hesitate to show us your take on it.

I have heard you speak to 'intent' of the author many times. Seemingly going so far as to say you fully understand the 'intent' even as the rest of us do not. How does one gauge 'intent'?

"Intent is a mental attitude with which an individual acts, and therefore it cannot ordinarily be directly proved but must be inferred from surrounding facts and circumstances."

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/intent

If we must infer intent from facts the only way to do so is investigate, interview witnesses and understand circumstances. In the case of scripture all we have is the interview and the facts of the witnesses. Intent must then be ascertained from the testimony of the witnesses. That testimony is FACT. The INTENT can only be known through those FACTS. If so, then the facts give us the intent and any attempt to alter the intent in opposition to the facts is incorrect. And you alter intent frequently.

But that works for you doesn't it? By nature intent cannot be directly proven so you can go on at length supported by a false premise, safe in the subconscious assurance that what you believe cannot be easily disproved. Don't you find that to disingenuous?  Intellectually dishonest?