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So Where Are We Now?


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9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is my guess that "the year or recompense" is only a figure of speech. Why use an Old TEstament verse when we have chapters in the New covering the same thing?  John shows us in Revelation that the last half of the week will be 42 months of trampling the city, while at the same time 1260 days of testifying, while at the same time 1260 days of fleeing and 3 1/2 years of supernatural protection, and at the same time, 42 months of authority. 

John also shows us that the worst of those days will be after the False Prophet shows up and the image is erected, and the mark created, and then they begin to enforce worshiping the image and receiving the mark - or die. Where are those days in Revelation? John shows us: those days of GT that Jesus said would be worse than any other of all time would begin late in chapter 14 and on into chapter 15, where the beheaded begin showing up in heaven. 

How long will that be into the second half? John does not tell us. Perhaps a week, perhaps a month, perhaps longer: we don't know when the False Prophet will show up to instigate all this. However, in chapter 16, perhaps when the murders are at their peak, God will begin pouring out the vials of His wrath, to SHORTEN those days of GT. After the bowls of wrath, there will be no more murders - for the armies of the Beast will be cowering in the dark, gnawing their tongues in pain. Will darkness cover the entire planet - or only the Middle East? I don't know.  I am guessing only the Middle East, but it is only a guess. Finally the 7th bowl is poured out to mark the END of the 70th week. Jesus does NOT show up then. But I am convinced, at the 7th vial, the Old TEstament saints are raised - perhaps millions from before the flood. That event will cause the worse earthquake every to hit planet earth. It will be so violent that the mountains will shake down into the earth and be no more. The Old Testament saints will perhaps be guests at the marriage, and the marriage MUST wait for them. That is why the marriage is show in chapter 19 and not before: God will wait for the Old Testament saints. 

Finally, after the marriage and supper, (perhaps on the 1290th day?)  Jesus will descend with the armies of heaven, probably including the saints raptured previously.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, your whole scenario or model of the order of events is shown to be wrong by a single statement of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Jesus says that the day of our rescue (resurrection/rapture) will be the very day that His wrath is poured out upon the wicked.

Paul taught the same thing.

 2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Paul says that the church will rest from persecution (trouble, thlipsis) when Christ is revealed taking vengeance upon our persecutors.

The correct understanding must have our (those saints who are alive and remain) rescue (rapture) taking place the same day as God's wrath, but before His wrath begins to be executed upon the day of the Lord.

You also have the identification of the man of sin wrong. The Beast is the one who is worshipped, not the false prophet. Therefore, the one who shows himself to be God in the temple is the Beast. The Beast is the counterpart of Christ in the satanic trinity, not the False Prophet.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

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9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is my guess that "the year or recompense" is only a figure of speech. Why use an Old TEstament verse when we have chapters in the New covering the same thing?  John shows us in Revelation that the last half of the week will be 42 months of trampling the city, while at the same time 1260 days of testifying, while at the same time 1260 days of fleeing and 3 1/2 years of supernatural protection, and at the same time, 42 months of authority. 

John also shows us that the worst of those days will be after the False Prophet shows up and the image is erected, and the mark created, and then they begin to enforce worshiping the image and receiving the mark - or die. Where are those days in Revelation? John shows us: those days of GT that Jesus said would be worse than any other of all time would begin late in chapter 14 and on into chapter 15, where the beheaded begin showing up in heaven. 

How long will that be into the second half? John does not tell us. Perhaps a week, perhaps a month, perhaps longer: we don't know when the False Prophet will show up to instigate all this. However, in chapter 16, perhaps when the murders are at their peak, God will begin pouring out the vials of His wrath, to SHORTEN those days of GT. After the bowls of wrath, there will be no more murders - for the armies of the Beast will be cowering in the dark, gnawing their tongues in pain. Will darkness cover the entire planet - or only the Middle East? I don't know.  I am guessing only the Middle East, but it is only a guess. Finally the 7th bowl is poured out to mark the END of the 70th week. Jesus does NOT show up then. But I am convinced, at the 7th vial, the Old TEstament saints are raised - perhaps millions from before the flood. That event will cause the worse earthquake every to hit planet earth. It will be so violent that the mountains will shake down into the earth and be no more. The Old Testament saints will perhaps be guests at the marriage, and the marriage MUST wait for them. That is why the marriage is show in chapter 19 and not before: God will wait for the Old Testament saints. 

Finally, after the marriage and supper, (perhaps on the 1290th day?)  Jesus will descend with the armies of heaven, probably including the saints raptured previously.

7

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, the great tribulation must take place before the rapture because the innumerable multitude are those who were raptured effectively ending the great tribulation. That is found in Rev 7:9-17, which happens early in your strict chronological view of the book of Revelation.

Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10  And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11  And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12  Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13  And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16  They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Jesus said that the cosmic sign, which portends His parousia and our gathering together unto Him, comes immediately after the tribulation of those days (the unprecedented persecution called great tribulation).

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture will effectively end the unprecedented persecution known as the great tribulation.

Praise Jesus

 

Edited by Steve Conley
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19 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, your whole scenario or model of the order of events is shown to be wrong by a single statement of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Jesus says that the day of our rescue (resurrection/rapture) will be the very day that His wrath is poured out upon the wicked.

Paul taught the same thing.

 2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Paul says that the church will rest from persecution (trouble, thlipsis) when Christ is revealed taking vengeance upon our persecutors.

The correct understanding must have our (those saints who are alive and remain) rescue (rapture) taking place the same day as God's wrath, but before His wrath begins to be executed upon the day of the Lord.

You also have the identification of the man of sin wrong. The Beast is the one who is worshipped, not the false prophet. Therefore, the one who shows himself to be God in the temple is the Beast. The Beast is the counterpart of Christ in the satanic trinity, not the False Prophet.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Steve, what you wrote may sound right to you, but it is not right. First, what was Jesus point in bringing up Noah? What point was He making - that there would be another flood? No! That there would be a 7 day period somewhere? No! His ONE point is the suddenness of the destruction! Those people in Noah's day got up one morning thinking that day was to be like all the previous days. They were sadly mistaken, for by the end of that day they were all drowned.  Jesus made the very same point with Lot: those in the two cities woke up that morning with no idea that they would all be dead before the day was done. 

Note Luke 17, they were just living NORMAL lives - until the flood came. With Lot it is written, "But the same day." And it will be the same when Jesus comes FOR His bride: Paul tells us that in one moment of time, two different groups of people will get two very different results: those living in the light of the gospel will get raptured (delivered) and escape the "sudden destruction," while those living in the darkness get left behind and cannot escape that sudden destruction.  And then Paul tells us that the sudden destruction is the start of God's wrath. So it will be "peace and safety" one moment, and "sudden destruction" the next. And I am convinced that "sudden destruction" will be the earthquake at the 6th seal. Why? Because John tells us that is when WRATH begins. 

So I agree with you that it will be the SAME DAY.  I like to put it this way: HIS COMING (for His saints) will trigger the rapture, and the rapture will trigger the DAY of the Lord. Therefore what I have always written is DEAD ON accurate according to what is written.

Since Jesus is coming TWICE more, first as seen in 1 thes. 4 and again as seen in Revelation 19, I think your flaming fire verse fits better with His Rev. 19 coming. There is no resurrection / rapture at His Rev. 19 coming. At that coming He is coming WITH His saints, not for them. Again, He is NOT COMING to take vengeance when He comes 1 Thes. 4 FOR His saints. His purpose in coming is to GATHER His saints and take them to heaven. But Vengeance (wrath) will follow. 

Make no mistake, many who call on he name of Jesus will be LEFT BEHIND - when He comes FOR His saints. Why? Most because they were not born again. Therefore COMPLETE rest for those that are HIS cannot come until He comes in power and wrath to destroy those at Armageddon that will have chosen to challenge Him.  Therefore, it is your thinking that does not line up with scripture. 

If in your thinking He is only coming once more, your theories will never fit all end times scriptures. He is coming TWICE more.

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8 hours ago, douggg said:

 

The sequence of events:

 

In the role of the King of Israel (but illegitimate), the Antichrist confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle - beginning the 70th week.

In the early middle part of the 70th week, he commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thess2:4 - Day of the Lord begins.*

God has him killed for the act - Ezekiel 28:1-10

In disdain for the person, God brings him back alive - Isaiah 14:19-20.

Back alive, now in the role of the beast, 8th Julio Claudian King of the Roman Empire - the image is made of him, which is the abomination of desolation.    Which when it is placed in the temple to be worshiped triggers the great tribulation

* the rapture takes place before the Day of the Lord begins.   How far before is not known.

Douggg: surely you know how to divide a number in half!  Since half the week is 1260 days the entire week is 2520 days. But John gave us the half, not the whole. My point is, the midway point will be 1260 days AFTER the start of the week, and it will be the abomination event that STOPS the daily sacrifices - right in the middle of the week.  Therefore there IS no "early middle." You could say "EXACT MIDPOINT." 

Next, that is NOT where John starts the Day of the Lord. 

Why or why can't you just follow the script? You would make a very poor actor, not being able to follow a script! John starts the DAY at the 6th seal before the week even begins!  Next, you are mistaken about the man of sin or the Antichrist being killed. That again is NOT what the text tells us!  So your imagination is running wild. Please, just follow the script?  It is ONE of seven "heads" that get the deadly wound. Heads are nations with kings. So it is one of the 7 NATIONS that receives the deadly wound. Would Babylon fit as one of the 7? Most commentators would agree. What happened to Iraq and its leader a few years back? 

Finally, all these things are FUTURE, so forget Julio Caludian! 

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14 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

"Where are we now" is the question of this topic; but on that note, I'd like to shift things slightly for just a moment and turn the question from the hypothetical to a real situation involving folks: Where are YOU now with the Lord Jesus Christ?

I ask this because Worthy receives a LOT of visitors every day; some saved, some not, and some may not know where they stand with the Lord. But for those who aren't saved (or aren't certain), you should answer this question one way or the other. Jesus asked in Scripture:

" He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”  (Matthew 16:15, NASB, emphasis mine)

 This is an important question, as who we say Christ is will have an impact on our eternal destiny. When we answer that question, we will then react to His identity. So with that said, let's start with our situation:

" for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23, NASB)

Scripture tells us this in many places, but it is most clear here: all of us are sinners, and none of us meet God's perfect standard. It goes on to describe how our sin looks:

"as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,  THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE. THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING, THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS; WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS; THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN. THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.” (Romans 3:10-18, NASB)

Scripture goes on to describe the consequences of sin:

" For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. " (Romans 6:23, NASB)

So far, we've learned just from these verses our situation, what sin looks like in our lives, and the consequences of it. But if you look closely, it also mentions a cure for it and and escape: The Lord Jesus Christ. It mentions that "eternal life" is a free gift from God Himself, and that life is in Jesus Christ.

The book of Romans continues on as to what Jesus Christ did for us:

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8, NASB)

So what we learn is that God loved us enough that Christ died on our behalf, as a free gift from God so that we would not have to die!

Let's stop here for a moment: yes, Jesus died for us, and that salvation through his death is a free gift from God. But that doesn't tell us exactly who Jesus is, does it?

This does:

" “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:16-21, NASB, emphasis mine)

What we find here in John chapter 3 is that God sent His only begotten Son so that we could have eternal life. But does that specify Jesus as the Son of God?

We find more here:

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." (John 1:1-5, NASB, emphasis mine)

And here:

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. " (John 1:14-18, NASB, emphasis mine)

In these two passages, we learn that 1) The "Word" was with God and was God in the beginning; 2) That the Word made everything; 3) The Word came to earth and walked amongst us in flesh; 4) The Word is the Son of God.

 So, where does that leave us with Jesus? John has an answer for us here:

"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! “This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ “I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” John testified saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. “I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ “I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.(John 1:29-34, NASB, emphasis mine)

So coming to this point, we discover that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, whom is the Word, whom IS GOD. And that brings us to the crux of the matter, as well as to a very important decision for every person who hears the Gospel to make:

If Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and the Son of God died so that our sin could be forgiven and we may gain eternal life, do we accept that gift or refuse it?

That question can only be answered by you, the reader.

If you think you don't need eternal life, then nothing said here will matter to you. But if you recognize the need for Jesus to save you from sin, then Scripture has the remedy and the way to obtain this free gift:

" But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” (Romans 10-8-13, NASB, emphasis mine)

It's that simple.

So with all of that said:  Where are YOU now with the Lord Jesus Christ?

Good post! Readers, don't allow your WILL to say no to Jesus!

Edited by iamlamad
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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Douggg: surely you know how to divide a number in half!  Since half the week is 1260 days the entire week is 2520 days. But John gave us the half, not the whole. My point is, the midway point will be 1260 days AFTER the start of the week, and it will be the abomination event that STOPS the daily sacrifices - right in the middle of the week.  Therefore there IS no "early middle." You could say "EXACT MIDPOINT." 

If you had some young children playing in the street, and you as a parent told them "get out of the middle of the street" - do you intend for them not to stand on the exact surveyed middle of the street?

The abomination of desolation will be setup in the midst - middle part of the week.   

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Steve, what you wrote may sound right to you, but it is not right. First, what was Jesus point in bringing up Noah? What point was He making - that there would be another flood? No! That there would be a 7 day period somewhere? No! His ONE point is the suddenness of the destruction! Those people in Noah's day got up one morning thinking that day was to be like all the previous days. They were sadly mistaken, for by the end of that day they were all drowned.  Jesus made the very same point with Lot: those in the two cities woke up that morning with no idea that they would all be dead before the day was done. 

Note Luke 17, they were just living NORMAL lives - until the flood came. With Lot it is written, "But the same day." And it will be the same when Jesus comes FOR His bride: Paul tells us that in one moment of time, two different groups of people will get two very different results: those living in the light of the gospel will get raptured (delivered) and escape the "sudden destruction," while those living in the darkness get left behind and cannot escape that sudden destruction.  And then Paul tells us that the sudden destruction is the start of God's wrath. So it will be "peace and safety" one moment, and "sudden destruction" the next. And I am convinced that "sudden destruction" will be the earthquake at the 6th seal. Why? Because John tells us that is when WRATH begins. 

So I agree with you that it will be the SAME DAY.  I like to put it this way: HIS COMING (for His saints) will trigger the rapture, and the rapture will trigger the DAY of the Lord. Therefore what I have always written is DEAD ON accurate according to what is written.

Since Jesus is coming TWICE more, first as seen in 1 thes. 4 and again as seen in Revelation 19, I think your flaming fire verse fits better with His Rev. 19 coming. There is no resurrection / rapture at His Rev. 19 coming. At that coming He is coming WITH His saints, not for them. Again, He is NOT COMING to take vengeance when He comes 1 Thes. 4 FOR His saints. His purpose in coming is to GATHER His saints and take them to heaven. But Vengeance (wrath) will follow. 

Make no mistake, many who call on he name of Jesus will be LEFT BEHIND - when He comes FOR His saints. Why? Most because they were not born again. Therefore COMPLETE rest for those that are HIS cannot come until He comes in power and wrath to destroy those at Armageddon that will have chosen to challenge Him.  Therefore, it is your thinking that does not line up with scripture. 

If in your thinking He is only coming once more, your theories will never fit all end times scriptures. He is coming TWICE more.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, neither myself nor anyone else on this forum is likely to be interested in your theories, unsupported propositions, guesses, assumptions, etc.. We are only interested in that which can be proven to be true from the Holy Scriptures.

You ramble on with your unorthodox ideas of the timing of eschatological events that you claim that you have received by revelation. Does that mean you are on par with Paul? Do you presume to discount the teaching of Paul, that before the day of Christ can come, that is before the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him, that the revelation of the man of sin and the departure from the faith that follows must take place?

Great tribulation upon the elect comes before the rapture of the elect. The blood washed saints of God will not experience God's wrath. The saints which experience great tribulation are blood washed saints.

Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

They/we will suffer affliction and many will die as martyrs under the unprecedented persecution brought on by the Beast, but we will not experience the wrath of God.

i...am...la ("the" in French?)...mad, those who place the rapture before the great tribulation have God pouring out His wrath upon His own faithful servants (the saints of the great tribulation). What type of sadistic teaching is that?

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Praise Jesus

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On 8/18/2018 at 8:02 AM, RevelationWriter said:

- Being a follower of Jesus The Christ most my life

I think I heard every possible 'end time prophecy' scenario for God's people.

- But now I'm thinking we could be in the time of The 4th Seal.

Which by the way we have nothing to fear from as

it's of 'the fourth part of the earth'. -  Rev.6:7,8 Greek.

And Hades following Death isn't for God's people.

I believe 'the fourth part of the earth' to be over in the middle east'.

 

(I think, We are, No Longer, In the Time of the SEALS)

SEALS = God Finishes these with the Announcement to the Nations of the "Ensign"

9/11/2001 Twin Towers Completes Seven SEALS

GENESIS 38:16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she [was] his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?

GENESIS 38:26 And Judah acknowledged [them], and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah (SEAL) my son. And he knew her again no more.

GENESIS 38:27 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins [were] in her womb.

God announces the "Women" that Reigns on the Throne of David (Lamb Slain) = SEALS Finished (Jeremiah 33:21)

ISAIAH 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

ISAIAH 11:10  And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

.......

.......

.......

We wait for the Trumpets

JOSHUA 6:1 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in. (SEAL (s) are first)

JOSHUA 6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, [and] the mighty men of valour.

JOSHUA 6:3 And ye shall compass the city, all [ye] men of war, [and] go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. (9/11/2001, SEALS finished)

JOSHUA 6:4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. (Trumpets After the SEAL (s), this begins Revelation)

.......

.......

.......

Jesus Told Us when the Trumpets would Sound

MATTHEW 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

MATTHEW 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

MATTHEW 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

1. 9/11/2001 to Flight 370 = 13 Years + 2300 Days = 2020

2. 2019 to 2020 = 13 Lunar Months + New Day Cycle Difference

3. 2019 A.D. to 2066 A.D. = 13 x 3.6 Year Cycles

 

The length of such a day is nearly constant (24 hours ± 30 seconds), day, wikipedia

24 Hours and 30 Seconds to 24 Hours and 60 Seconds (Roughly) (we'll have to wait for this one)

Edited by Gibbus
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4 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, neither myself nor anyone else on this forum is likely to be interested in your theories, unsupported propositions, guesses, assumptions, etc.. We are only interested in that which can be proven to be true from the Holy Scriptures.

You ramble on with your unorthodox ideas of the timing of eschatological events that you claim that you have received by revelation. Does that mean you are on par with Paul? Do you presume to discount the teaching of Paul, that before the day of Christ can come, that is before the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him, that the revelation of the man of sin and the departure from the faith that follows must take place?

Great tribulation upon the elect comes before the rapture of the elect. The blood washed saints of God will not experience God's wrath. The saints which experience great tribulation are blood washed saints.

Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

They/we will suffer affliction and many will die as martyrs under the unprecedented persecution brought on by the Beast, but we will not experience the wrath of God.

i...am...la ("the" in French?)...mad, those who place the rapture before the great tribulation have God pouring out His wrath upon His own faithful servants (the saints of the great tribulation). What type of sadistic teaching is that?

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Praise Jesus

I think some here must have a reading problem. I write only what comes directly from the word of God. I wonder sometimes if others read the same bible I read.  Well, I am definitely NOT "orthodox" anything.  I am only a believe that believes the word of God is TRUTH as written. And I am a believer that hears from the Lord. AFter all, He said "My sheep hear by voice..."  If others here are NOT hearing, then that is a problem  for them!

What for example to you think Paul meant when he wrote, 

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

This is in the CONTEXT of the rapture. What is paul saying? WE (those in Christ) get raptured (salvation) while those left behind get wrath. Is this a difficult concept? Was God's wrath here the moment before the rapture event started? No! It was "peace and safety." It will be the dead in Christ rising that starts a worldwide earthquake (Mat. 27: the earth did quake...and the graves were opened) and this earthquake will be the "sudden destruction" wrath that those left behind will feel. 

If you think these verses mean something else, then by all means show us all. I know God is not setting any appointments for us with His wrath.  Paul also wrote:

 

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Please keep in mind, I did not write these words, PAUL did - the ONLY writer of the bible that received revelation on the rapture event. Notice carefully that there are only two verses between our classic rapture verse of being caught up and Paul's mention of the Day of the Lord! And make no mistake, Paul ties "Sudden Destruction" with the DAY.  PAUL did this, not me. I am only reading what Paul wrote.  We know JESUS comes as a thief, at a time least expected, and so the DAY comes the same way, because HIS COMING TRIGGERS THE DAY. But we must get Paul's chronology, FIRST the dead in Christ rise, but then, two groups of people get two different results - AT THE SAME MOMENT IN TIME: perhaps one milisecond after the Dead in Christ have risen from their graves: Those that are in christ get raptured - while those that are living in darkness get sudden destruction: they are caught in the earthquake caused by the dead in Christ rising. 

Make no mistake here! The sudden destruction is WRATH and it is the DAY, and it starts at the same moment in time that the living in Christ are caught up. But what started it? the Dead in Christ rising started it, and that happened because Christ came and sounded the trumpet.

"...that before the day of Christ can come, that is before the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him, that the revelation of the man of sin and the departure from the faith that follows must take place?"

Who ever said such nonsense? I surely have not! Perhaps you imagine such nonsense because you deny Paul's pretrib rapture!  Did you MISS this?

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This rapture event is a coming, but He will stop in the air and in the clouds! This is NOT his coming as seen in Rev. 19. And from Paul we KNOW it will start a moment before WRATH starts. So where is that in Revelation?  You can read - so you should know: it comes at the 6th seal. This is not "unsupported propositions, guesses" it is just reading and BELIEVING what is written. This seems extremely difficult for some on this forum! 

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Notice carefully, I did not write this, John wrote it. The problem is, some just can't seem to believe what John wrote. It just does not fit their preconceived theories!  What did Paul write? We are not appointed to wrath, but rather to get raptured. It is one or the other at the same moment in time!  I did not write it, Paul wrote it. The problem then is not what I write, the problem is your theories that do not fit what is written. 

"Great tribulation upon the elect comes before the rapture of the elect."

Just as I said, a theory not based on scripture, but on preconceptions. Scripture proves that Paul's rapture comes just before WRATH, so it comes a moment before the wrath at the 6th seal. If you can't believe this, blame Paul and John, not me! I am only assisting you to understand what they wrote.  So you have a theory here: well, PROVE It with scripture!  Good luck, for people have been trying for a very long time, but always end up in failure, for the truth is, God is PRETRIB.

I think you need to discover WHERE in Revelation the days of great tribulation really are. Please, allow me to assist you: they MUST come after God issues the warning in chapter 14 NOT to accept the mark.  So here you are, trying to rearrange Revelation to fit your theory! WRONG! Develop a theory from what is written AS it is written. You wish to MOVE the days of GT from chapters 14 and 15 where GOD PUT THEM, to somewhere early in Revelation. Well, Rosenthal and Van Kampen did it before you, so you are not alone.  So also have other prewrathers on youtube.  You should know: ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong. 

Face it, Steve, your theory does not agree with either Paul or John. 

"those who place the rapture before the great tribulation have God pouring out His wrath upon His own faithful servants (the saints of the great tribulation). What type of sadistic teaching is that?"  You kind of have this wrong (as usual).  This is proven by scripture, so you are in reality accusing God of being sadistic.  However, the truth is, God has done everything in His power  - all that He can do - to get people PREPARED so they are caught up BEFORE His wrath. Only those who have refused Him will be left behind.  What does prewrath do? It leaves the saints here during the trumpet judgments!  God will seal the 144,000 Hebrews, but NONE of the Gentiles left behind will be sealed for their protection: they will just have to live through  these trumpet judments - according to prewrath! 

The truth is, the ONLY people who will go through His wrath are those that don't believe God enough to get ready. Plain and simple.  Now then, are YOU expecting Jesus' coming tomorrow or the next day? If not, why not? If you are left behind and ask God, and He asks you, "why did you not believe my word? Why were you not watching? Why were you not expecting my coming?" I wonder what you will answer?  Sorry, but your theory is BOGUS, not fitting the scriptures. 

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6 hours ago, douggg said:

If you had some young children playing in the street, and you as a parent told them "get out of the middle of the street" - do you intend for them not to stand on the exact surveyed middle of the street?

The abomination of desolation will be setup in the midst - middle part of the week.   

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."
 

That is proof enough that God knows how to divide by two. 

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