Church of Christ? What do you think?

[other one]

1 minute ago, Adstar said:

The iniguity is to add their works to the Work of the LORD Jesus and to seek to boast about how they played an integril part in securing their own salvation.. They seek to earn their salvation when The LORD Jesus has offered it to them as a loving gift.. The reject salvation as a gift won by the LORD for them and turn around and trying to pay for it with their own filthy rags works..

 

Romans 3: KJV

23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; {24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: {25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. {28} Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

 

They are paranoid because they Do Not Trust that the Work of the LORD Jesus is enough to secure for them salvation.. They do not have Faith in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. So they are in bondage to a works salvation theology..

so you are saying they are going to hell?     even though they are not doing works of iniquity...….       they are simply doing what they consider Jesus wants them to do.....    that's pretty cold.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Doing what Jesus wants us to do is impossible for  any human that I have ever met, if you define what Jesus wants as turning the other cheek , selling all that you own and giving it to the poor or cutting off your hand if it causes you to sin.On the other hand, if you do what he wants you to do when asked that question by the Disciples you would “believe on the One He sent”.That is possible for any human.

Works will follow Salvation  but they do not save or keep us saved. Cain’s works were not acceptable to God, and God changes not.Pleading to God for Salvation come Judgement Day  because of all your “ good works” instead of Christ’s Blood alone will cause you to hear.... “ Depart from me.....”

If you think that what Adstar is “ cold” check out what Paul said about adding works to his Gospel....they are perverters of the Gospel......Christ’s death is of NO  benefit to them.......they are “ Accursed”, damned by God.

If you truly desire to follow Jesus—- do what He said to do.....follow Paul as he follows Christ....simply believe  the Gospel.....1Cor15:1-4.....and add to it at your own risk.

The first half of the Gospel declares we must believe that Christ “ died for our sins”—— that is the part that Judaizers give lip- service to but don’t really believe it .If you commit a willful sin or die in your sleep without having your Repentence log caught up to date, you are lost.The Gospel is all or nothing—- both halves.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953

[Blood Bought 1953]

17 hours ago, Neighbor said:

 Hi, I suggest that hyperbole does not always win the day. Instead it more often defeats the very presentation being made.

My brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus that attend CoC affiliated local bodies of Christ are neither overweight nor lazy. They are energetic participants in serving  our Lord Jesus, are generous to one another, are concerned for the eternal well being of everyone. 

That they have what I think is a minority view on many  things of interest to saints in Christ does not make them unchristian. If it did then there are precious few Christians anywhere to be found. Why if a Christian must have the correct view on Tribulation, on rapture timing if and when, how many  raptures, the extent of freewill , can one lose salvation and if lost can it be regained,  are all sins equal or not, are children born innocent or are they born in sin, etc., why the list of ways to find error in another based upon one's own opinion training and church held and taught doctrines is vast. If only one understanding is the  acceptable a view  just who is the one soul that holds  the sole acceptable view, and is saved? 

I think Jesus is far more generous to us than we are to each other.

 

Nobody gets it all 100% correct.Saved Christians have much latitude in how they view the Tribulation, the Rapture, etc. I have no problem with any of that.However, when church members add a “but” to Jesus saves my antennae go up.” Jesus saves, BUT you will NOT be saved if you smoke cugarettes.This Doctrine at the least is the Doctrine of “ weak believers” to which Paul referred to in regard to those who thought you had to worship on special,days or refrain from eating certain foods.We are told to put up with them , but never are we told that such types are to rule the church.At the worst, these types could by modern- day Judaizers who are the “ accursed” to whom Paul was referring to those that added a doctrine of works to pervert his Gospel of Grace. I don’t know where the line is drawn, but why put ones self into a state of jeopardy ?Paul said if we simply believe his Gospel and nothing else we will be saved.That is what I do and that’s how I got saved and that is how I stay saved.Any other route is very risky .Faith plus nothing.

[Neighbor]

On 8/24/2018 at 3:55 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Faith plus nothing.

By faith alone in Christ Jesus sacrifice made willingly at the service to His Father.

I state that it i snot my faith that i trust in for my salvation. I could place faith in many gods or many things, including my own ability to negotiate, but I find my own faith my own abilities wax and wane and are not to be trusted for my eternal standing before God, as means to escape his righteous wrath and the curse on all creation  as result of His anger with Adam. dam so deeply hurting God with his sin aganst God that God was sorry he had created in th efirst place.

What I rely upon is this declaration: ( It is John 6 without all t he added on verse numbers and footnote references. My Lord I suspect did not recite in verses he spoke and this is  the written record of his talk. I just read it for comprehension like I believe it was intended, without interruption of it's flow)

"After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias.  And a large crowd was following him, because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick.  Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples.  Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand.  Lifting up his eyes, then, and seeing that a large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, “Where are we to buy bread, so that these people may eat?”  He said this to test him, for he himself knew what he would do.  Philip answered him, “Two hundred denarii worth of bread would not be enough for each of them to get a little.”  One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said to him, “There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are they for so many?”  Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, about five thousand in number.  Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated. So also the fish, as much as they wanted.  And when they had eaten their fill, he told his disciples, “Gather up the leftover fragments, that nothing may be lost.”  So they gathered them up and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves left by those who had eaten.  When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, “This is indeed the Prophet who is to come into the world!”

 Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself.

 When evening came, his disciples went down to the sea,  got into a boat, and started across the sea to Capernaum. It was now dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.”  Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.

On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone.  Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks.  So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.

 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?”  Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.  Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”  Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”  Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”  So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?  Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.  For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”  They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.  But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.  All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.  For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.  And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.  For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”  They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”  Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.  It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life.  Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.  I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”  So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.  For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.  This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”  Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.

When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”  But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this?  Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.  But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)  And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?”  Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”  Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”  He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him."

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

AND:

Romans 8 English Standard Version (ESV)

 

 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.  For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,  in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.  For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.  For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.  Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.  But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

 

 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.  For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.  For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.  For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”  The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,  and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.  For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.  And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?  But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.  And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?  He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?  Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.  Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?  As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
    we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,  nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Neighbor

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Perhaps it is fitting that I take this opportunity to expand what I mean by “Faith plus Nothing”.Faith is trust.When I ride my Harley and I come to a busy intersection, I grab the brake and fully trust and believe that  by doing this I will come to a safe stop.I don’t really have to think twice .Complete trust.That is what God is looking for.Something He can’t create.Kinda like love.....if you try to demand it, it ain’t love .God desires faith and love that is freely given when we have the freedom to do otherwise .One third of Heaven failed to exhibit faith and we know how well that worked out.” Without faith, it is impossible to please God” The entire population of  Heaven will consist of those who believed a promise of God—- That is Faith.The promise of God for the lost sinner in today’s Age of Grace is Paul’s Gospel delivered to him by Jesus. 1 Cor15:1-4. See that you’re a sinner that needs a Savior and believe That Christ was dead, buried and rose from the dead on the third day.Trust in that and that only for your Salvation. God made a promise to save you if you believe that and THAT ONLY.Add your good works to the all- sufficient saving power of Christ’s Blood and you nullify Grace. You are “ fallen from Grace”. The death of Christ is of “ no benefit to you” and you are “ accursed”. That is why I always say “ Faith plus Nothing” for salvation.When one believes “ Jesus saves......but,”you put yourself in dire jeopardy. “The just shall LIVE by FAITH. God bless.

[Neighbor]

And yet no one has faith to seek God of their own doing. No one seeks God, not one does without God first calling them. It is not faith born of any individual's desire to be with God that saves them out from His wrath. All run from God.

It is God having first called each person in general by the message of creation itself, then each person that will be saved specifically being called via the Holy Spirit that leads to any man turning about to his repentance from his sin against God. Even in his repentance man cannot brag. Without the Holy Spirit  who is God first revealing Jesus who is God no person is saved from their sin against God. It is God alone that saves and not that salvation is of any man, again - so that no man may boast of his salvation.

 I do suggest that  no person trusts their Harley's brakes  out of their own faith nor does the Holy Spirit enable one to be confident in such a stopping system. Trust in Harley brakes is born of knowledge of brakes from experience mostly and from some engineering principles having nearly nothing to do with faithing. Just in understanding that brakes do stop vehicles, knowledge enabled by another source a resource outside of one's self by first hearing that there are brakes and that brakes save one from crashing into many objects and being shown that Harley's do stop. It does not require the Holy Spirit to enable trust in Harley brakes.

It does require the Holy Spirit to enable seeing Jesus as Lord God and personal savior.

No one understand's God of their own self enlightenment, there is no self edification to faith in Jesus.  Jesus is the faith, it is by His faith that any  are saved.  It takes God( God the Holy Spirit) to make what God has done understandable to man. It is by God alone, and  not by man's  confirmation of God that any are saved. Man does not justify God by his faith. Man's faith alone fails, it is strong one day, weak on another, and even denied by man on yet another. Man will deny God, as the man Peter did. It is solely God who enables man to have saving faith. And then faith enabled by God may grow in man by the Holy Spirit revealing the word of God to man.

And to further offend; I say that faith is an active thing. Faith  should better be called faithing, a verb to faithe. Without activity faith is a dead thing that does not save. So yes the saved by the grace of God solely person, is one turned about to their repentance from sin against God by the Holy Spirit, to understanding Jesus is Lord, God, and personal savior. That person will become Jesus' bond-servant and do His command. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Neighbor

[Knowingtruth]

On 8/22/2018 at 9:07 AM, other one said:

while they don't play instruments in church, they do usually have very good music.  The Church I attended for my first 17 years had many of the congregation take voice lessons and choir practice once a week....    most people could read shape music.  I was taught as a child that they did not have musical instruments because there isn't any mention of them being used in the Churches in the New Testament...

There are many other reasons that I decided it was not the place for me, but most of the people there are serious Christians   I think what bothered me the most was finding out that they do believe that no one can be saved until they are baptized by a member of their group of churches....    It is the act of baptism that saves a person.  But I would say that they do have a group of people that can baptize anyone 24/7/365 when that person decides to be saved.

It is a cult with false beliefs!

 

[Knowingtruth]

On 8/24/2018 at 7:28 AM, other one said:

if one has declared Jesus as their Lord, they are not going to be people who work iniquity,    If they do they just made liars of themselves for if Jesus is our Lord we are obligated to do the things he told us to do....   People who love God with all their strength and love their neighbor as themselves are not going to be going around working iniquity.....   and they will be baptized and take acre of each other love their wives and such.....

 

I believe this is what James was getting at when he speaks of faith and works..      but I am a Lordship Salvation kind of guy...…     Faith is more than knowledge, it is a trust.....   a trust to put yourself completely in the hands of the Lord....      Allow him to be your Lord.....   Make him your Lord....     many ways of saying the same thing.  

Without  fruit of the Spirit, salvation is lost!

[Knowingtruth]

On 8/24/2018 at 12:43 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

If you truly desire to follow Jesus—- do what He said to do.....follow Paul as he follows Christ....simply believe  the Gospel.....1Cor15:1-4.....and add to it at your own risk.

 

If you followed Paul instead of Jesus, you may end up following Paul. Paul will not and cannot offer salvation