Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, n2thelight said:

What part of your own post don't you understand?The last trumpet is the 7th,do think I said that's when the change will take place,hence the point of my post.

 

Where is your rapture before the last trump?

n2thedark, turn on the light! Yes, indeed the 7th trumpet in Revelation is the last of that series, but that is not Paul's "last trump" that is a DIFFERENT series.  People have been trying to prove this 7th trumpet / last trump ever since John wrote. No one has proved it yet, because it is a theory only that cannot be proven.  Without a doubt, Paul's last trump is the final trump at the Feast of Trumpets. 

The Feast of Trumpets is the ONLY feast where "no man knows the day nor the hour." The time had to be verified by two witnesses: witnesses were sent out to visually see the sliver of a new moon. If they saw it, they would report it to the High Priest and THEN (and only then) could the feast begin.  If they did not see it, the feast was put off for another day until it could be seen.

NONE of what Paul said would happen at the rapture event takes place at the 7th trumpet. You have to imagine it to make it so. What DOES happen then? There is a transfer: the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ. 

WHY at the 7th trumpet? It is because the 6000 years of Adam's lease will have ENDED when the 7th trumpet sounds. That will be the signal for Michael to go after Satan and cast him DOWN. 

You should have said, "where is your rapture before the 7th trump?"

The correct answer will be a moment before the 6th seal. Jesus comes (to the air) the dead are raised, then those alive are raised, and the 6th seal earthquake takes place, so those living in the darkness are left behind for Paul's sudden destruction. 

Then, so we all know for sure that is where Paul's rapture fits, John SAW the raptured church in heaven shortly after the 6th seal.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

I am not surprised by your deep sleep at this time, the prophetic message of JESUS has previously shown that all would be asleep in the time of His come or return. Of course you're asleep, who is not? JESUS does not lie.    But JESUS left clearly revealed an important SIGN to be fulfilled in exactly this wonderful time when His coming will come. Here is the SIGN from which Jesus spoke: "And at midnight there was A CRY MADE, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him".

Wake up. Wake up, stop sleeping, please. He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches. 

JESUS will manifest Himself in a day of the Christian Calendar in this BEGINNING of this first century of the seventh and last millennium. It is impossible to know this day of 24 hours of Christian Calendar in which our Lord will manifest Himself among His saints, as also the respective year of His manifestation, but it is true that He is well nearest, and His people MUST be ready to go out to meet Him.  

Taking Christian calendar as a parameter, we can see that has already passed around 18 years of the first century of the seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ, and the Millennium of Truth, and Millennium of God's rest, and Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and Millennium of Vengeance, that is the seventh and Last Millennium or the seventh and last Day. 

As was prophesied by the Apostle Paul, ""the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God"" (1The.4:v.16).    We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall SOUND, and we shall be changed. 1Cor. 15:51-52 .        There will not be change without the SOUND of the trumpet, or if the trumpet does not sound.  
 

But there is a great problem among Christians in this perilous time and of great apostasy, that is the sad literal fulfilment of which JESUS said: Luke 18:v.8 - Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Shall He?  What I say, I tell everyone.

 

Can you really PROVE that 6000 years have past and we are now IN the 7th thousand years?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Yes, I can prove through the periods of biblical times.  But, sorry, I will not do this now in this post.

Trying to help through a short explanation, not biblical by the way, I would say now that the Word was made flesh around 4 thousand years after Adam.

From JESUS until today have passed around 2.000 years, more precisely 2.018 years according Christian Calendar. Then 6.018 years.

Also the Jewish Calendar may help in part to understand biblical times.  As you know, they are in the year 5.778, it because they begin to count the time from Seth and not from Adam. They despised 130 years of Adam age, when he begot Seth. Thus we get to 5.908 years.  The difference of 110 years occurs because they despised also 40 years walking through the desert, and 70 yrs of their captivity in Babylon. Thus we get to 6.018 yrs.

 

I too think we are close, but just under the 6000. I think this because the Kingdoms are given to Jesus Christ, and Satan is cast down, at the midpoint of the week.  Therefore, we may have 3 1/2 years to go to get to the end of 6000 years.

[n2thelight]

11 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

But I said: There will not be change without the SOUND of the trumpet, or if the trump does not sound.  I perceive that you have not ear to hear and interpreting the sound of the trumpet.    Are you really a reader of the Bible or a reader of foolish religous literatures full of all kind of cunningly devised fabbles and devilish tares? You try to speak about the 7th trump, but what is its message you do not speak truly? What is the message of the seventh trump? Tell us, please. 

 

Now, now, even you just said: "The last trumpet is the 7th,do think I said that's when the change will take place, hence the point of my post" 

Oh you work with thoughts, and presumptions, suppositions, imaginations among other kinds of fakes.   

How can the change take place without the sound of the 7th trump? As is written: ... the trumpet shall SOUND (first), and we shall be changed (effect). 1Cor. 15:51-52 .  

Well, I repeat: There will not be change without the SOUND of the trump, or if the trump does not sound.  What part of your own post don't you understand?  Will be you have ear to hear and interpreting the sound of the 7th trump? I dont believe.    Maybe  you will be at the side of the Antichrist, the MAN of sin and son of perdition, who will do great wonders, so that he will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and maybe you will be amazed with those miracles which the Beast will do in the sight of men.

Iamlamad said unto you On 9/12/2018 at 10:25 AM:
This is a serious thing, denying what is clearly written. If I were you, I would chuck all your theories into file 13 (I confess I do not know what kind of file is this) and start over! This time, form your doctrines from scripture AS WRITTEN. And take off those pesky preconceived glasses!  They are causing you trouble! (the griffen is mine)

I agree. 

My whole point was and is, pay attention,how are you all raptured before the 7th trump?

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

My whole point was and is, pay attention,how are you all raptured before the 7th trump?

Very simple: the 7th trumpet in Revelation has NOTHING to do with Paul's "last trump." Any connection is only imagination. 

Paul and John together make it clear, Paul's rapture will come a moment before God's wrath comes - at the 6th seal.  

This is going by the words written - no imagination involved. 

I guess you know - or should know - John wrote about the trumpet judgments many years AFTER Paul wrote about the "last trump."

[n2thelight]

On 9/15/2018 at 9:53 AM, iamlamad said:

Very simple: the 7th trumpet in Revelation has NOTHING to do with Paul's "last trump." Any connection is only imagination. 

Paul and John together make it clear, Paul's rapture will come a moment before God's wrath comes - at the 6th seal.  

This is going by the words written - no imagination involved. 

I guess you know - or should know - John wrote about the trumpet judgments many years AFTER Paul wrote about the "last trump."

So what you saying is there are two last trumps?

[n2thelight]

On 9/15/2018 at 8:29 PM, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

You work with thoughts, and presumptions, suppositions or conjectures, imaginations among other kinds of fakes. Make again your question giving respective Scriptures of your point of view, explaining how will be the transfer of the raptured Christians and to where they will be carried, beyond answering the question asked to you, that is: What is the message of the seventh trump? Tell us, please.  

Let's keep it simple,will you all be gone before satan and his angels are kicked out of Heaven?

 

As for the message of the 7th trump,it's the return of Christ,ie the Day of the Lord....

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

So what you saying is there are two last trumps?

Do you imagine that God will send angels to steal all the trumpets in heaven and in the world - so that there can never be another trumpet sound? John did not write that the 7th was the last trumpet [ever]. He just called it the 7th trumpet. Paul is the one who said "the last trump" and since that is all Paul said, we need to qualify: last of WHAT SERIES? Paul did not tell us. You imagine Paul said the last trump [written in the bible], but Paul did not say that. The "bible" was not written then. You imagine there will never be another trumpet sound - all through the 1000 year reign of Christ and then all through eternity. I doubt that since it makes little sense.

I imagine Paul meant the last trump [at the feast of trumpets] but since Paul did not write that, it is only a guess. Since the feast of trumpets is that feast where "no man knows the day nor the hour" it makes good sense. 

 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Let's keep it simple,will you all be gone before satan and his angels are kicked out of Heaven?

 

As for the message of the 7th trump,it's the return of Christ,ie the Day of the Lord....

For all we know, since you posted no scripture, you are using your imagination.  However, you did give one thing that will happen at the 7th trumpet: Satan is kicked out of heaven. GOOD!  Now show us a verse from Revelation chapter 11 or 12 where Jesus comes.  That is the verse we want to see. Then if you can show us a verse that ties His coming with the DAY - so we know they happen at the same moment in time, that will be great. 

The ball is now in your court. 

[Steve Conley]

On 9/12/2018 at 6:47 AM, Alan Hales said:

Our bodies are waiting redemption, Rom 8:  23. Which will be changed at the rapture. 1 Cor 15: 49--52, And ready for heaven.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Alan, have you considered Luke 21:28 in light of the truth that you proclaimed above?

Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Redemption has been promised to the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, those who have put their faith and trust in His person and work for eternal salvation. Our redemption takes place at His appearing in the clouds with the holy angels when we are resurrected or changed and raptured and taken to the Father's house to be forever with Christ.

Have you noticed what "these things" are in the context of Christ's statement in Luke 21:28?

These things are the cosmic signs, which were promised by the prophets to precede the day of the Lord, and the response of the nations toward the signs.

Each of the previous 3 verses (Luke 21:25-27) provide context and detail concerning the events which should signal the persecuted believer to "look up" and "lift up your head" (an idiom meaning: be encouraged) because our redemption (when we see Christ at the rapture) is nigh (near in time, imminent, could happen any moment).

Cosmic signs and their effect upon the earth and the nations

Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Lost mankind's response to those signs

Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Jesus and the mighty appearing in the clouds of the atmospheric heaven

Luk 21:27  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The Bible doesn't teach a secret rapture, it teaches a glorious appearing and our gathering unto Him at that time.

Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb