Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[Alan Hales]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So I hit the nail squarely on the head, just as I thought.

I am waiting for you to pick something so we can discuss it by and with scripture. Since you understand scripture  - that should be no problem.

Whatever you do, Don't get me on the Bible, because I'll whip you with the Biblical truths. No one has been able to disprove what I teach, because they cannot disprove the scriptures which I teach.

Wherever do you get your erroneous teaching on the 5th seal having been already done??.

[Alan Hales]

8 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Because they don't agree with you, right?

 

WRONG, It's because they disagree with the Bible. What he teaches isn't found in the Bible.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

Whatever you do, Don't get me on the Bible, because I'll whip you with the Biblical truths. No one has been able to disprove what I teach, because they cannot disprove the scriptures which I teach.

Wherever do you get your erroneous teaching on the 5th seal having been already done??.

When you understand the timing of the 5th seal, and then the content of the 5th seal, it is easy to know that those people under the altar are church age martyrs.  Stop and think - if they were 70th week martyrs, no need to ask: they would already know they had only to wait out the 7 years. But take Stephen for example - since he was one of them: Stephen, killed very soon after that day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came, would have no idea how long the church age would last. That is why they asked: because they did not know. The answer given them is very interesting: It seems God does not mix judgment with grace. We are living in the age of grace. 

Ephesians 3:2  If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

When this dispensation ends, Judgment comes. Paul is clear on this in 1 thes. 4 & 5: the moment after the rapture the Day of the Lord comes. 

They are told they must wait for the very last one to be killed as they all were killed - as age of grace martyrs. (The manner in which they were killed was different for many of them.)  

If you really believe the bible, as you say you do, You know that John saw a throne room where Jesus was absent, being on earth at the time. Then He saw the very moment Jesus ascended back into the throne room - somewhere around 32 AD. You wish to add 2000 years to that time, but in doing so you are adding to the book - and John warned us about adding or taking away. There is no 2000 years there in any verse or between any verse. God's point was and is that the first seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended back to heaven - around 32 AD.

Then the CONTENT of the first seals gives this away too: seal #1  is the church taking the GOSPEL to the nations. Seals 2-4 are the devil's attempts to STOP the Gospel  - keep in within the 1/4 of the earth where it started. And then seal 5 for the martyrs of the church age. If you take note, the first hint of a long wait is at seal 5: the next seal cannot be opened until it is time for judgment - after the age of grace has finished - with the pretrib rapture that ends the age of Grace.

It is just a matter of understanding the scriptures. God, the Author, had something in mind when He caused John to write. It is up to us to find His intent. In fact, if anyone asks in faith, God will answer them. Revelation is a book that human reasoning will just not work to ascertain the Intent of the Author. 

Pulpit Commentary:  "Wordsworth, after St. Augustine, expounds the first seal as the advent of Christ and the Gospel"

Gill's Commentary:  "And I saw, and behold a white horse,.... Representing the ministration of the Gospel in the times of the apostles...

and he that sat on him had a bow; with arrows; the bow is the word of the Gospel, and the arrows the doctrines of it...

Matthew Henry Commentary:  the early progress of the Christian religion, seems to be intended; its going forth in purity, at the time when its heavenly Founder sent his apostles to teach all nations...

Benson Commentary:   The contents of this seal seem evidently to refer to the triumph of Christianity over Jewish and heathen opposition, by the labours of its first preachers.

Clarke's Commentary: 

A white horse - Supposed to represent the Gospel system, and pointing out its excellence, swiftness, and purity.

He that sat on him - Supposed to represent Jesus Christ.

A bow - The preaching of the Gospel, darting conviction into the hearts of sinners.

As you can see, I am not the only person to interpret seal 1 as the church taking the gospel to the world. After all, this seal was opened as soon as Jesus arrived back in heaven and took the book out of the Father's right hand. 

Most people miss this part, but the riders of the red, the black and the pale ride together: their mission is the same: STOP the advance of the gospel. But God limited their theater of operation to only 1/4 of the world. They also failed in their missing. The Gospel of our Lord is now everywhere! Since these three ride together, it should be obvious that the rider of the White horse rides alone. 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

WRONG, It's because they disagree with the Bible. What he teaches isn't found in the Bible.

Sorry, but you are mistaken yet again: what I teach comes straight from the bible, properly understood.  The problem you seem to be having is understanding the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit. 

He caused John to see the very moment Jesus ascended back into heaven and sent the Holy Spirit down, and then John wrote exactly what He saw: Jesus suddenly returning to the throne room, when a moment before He was not there. God's purpose was to show TIMING. Yet, it seems you see something quite different then what John is showing us. Could it be you are wearing preconceived glasses that PREVENT you seeing what the Author intended in these verses?  I would advice you, TAKE OFF all preconceptions! Open yourself to the truth of the Word of God. Preconceptions block people from seeing the intent of the Author.  Example: John saw a throne room with the Father on the throne, but NO JESUS. Because of your preconceived glasses, you imagine Jesus was there even though John did not see Him so did not write that he saw Him. 

[Alan Hales]

30 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you are mistaken yet again: what I teach comes straight from the bible, properly understood.  The problem you seem to be having is understanding the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit. 

He caused John to see the very moment Jesus ascended back into heaven and sent the Holy Spirit down, and then John wrote exactly what He saw: Jesus suddenly returning to the throne room, when a moment before He was not there. God's purpose was to show TIMING. Yet, it seems you see something quite different then what John is showing us. Could it be you are wearing preconceived glasses that PREVENT you seeing what the Author intended in these verses?  I would advice you, TAKE OFF all preconceptions! Open yourself to the truth of the Word of God. Preconceptions block people from seeing the intent of the Author.  Example: John saw a throne room with the Father on the throne, but NO JESUS. Because of your preconceived glasses, you imagine Jesus was there even though John did not see Him so did not write that he saw Him. 

NOT you again, Clear off with your nonsense.

[Alan Hales]

40 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

When you understand the timing of the 5th seal, and then the content of the 5th seal, it is easy to know that those people under the altar are church age martyrs.  Stop and think - if they were 70th week martyrs, no need to ask: they would already know they had only to wait out the 7 years. But take Stephen for example - since he was one of them: Stephen, killed very soon after that day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came, would have no idea how long the church age would last. That is why they asked: because they did not know. The answer given them is very interesting: It seems God does not mix judgment with grace. We are living in the age of grace. 

Ephesians 3:2  If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

When this dispensation ends, Judgment comes. Paul is clear on this in 1 thes. 4 & 5: the moment after the rapture the Day of the Lord comes. 

They are told they must wait for the very last one to be killed as they all were killed - as age of grace martyrs. (The manner in which they were killed was different for many of them.)  

If you really believe the bible, as you say you do, You know that John saw a throne room where Jesus was absent, being on earth at the time. Then He saw the very moment Jesus ascended back into the throne room - somewhere around 32 AD. You wish to add 2000 years to that time, but in doing so you are adding to the book - and John warned us about adding or taking away. There is no 2000 years there in any verse or between any verse. God's point was and is that the first seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended back to heaven - around 32 AD.

Then the CONTENT of the first seals gives this away too: seal #1  is the church taking the GOSPEL to the nations. Seals 2-4 are the devil's attempts to STOP the Gospel  - keep in within the 1/4 of the earth where it started. And then seal 5 for the martyrs of the church age. If you take note, the first hint of a long wait is at seal 5: the next seal cannot be opened until it is time for judgment - after the age of grace has finished - with the pretrib rapture that ends the age of Grace.

It is just a matter of understanding the scriptures. God, the Author, had something in mind when He caused John to write. It is up to us to find His intent. In fact, if anyone asks in faith, God will answer them. Revelation is a book that human reasoning will just not work to ascertain the Intent of the Author. 

Pulpit Commentary:  "Wordsworth, after St. Augustine, expounds the first seal as the advent of Christ and the Gospel"

Gill's Commentary:  "And I saw, and behold a white horse,.... Representing the ministration of the Gospel in the times of the apostles...

and he that sat on him had a bow; with arrows; the bow is the word of the Gospel, and the arrows the doctrines of it...

Matthew Henry Commentary:  the early progress of the Christian religion, seems to be intended; its going forth in purity, at the time when its heavenly Founder sent his apostles to teach all nations...

Benson Commentary:   The contents of this seal seem evidently to refer to the triumph of Christianity over Jewish and heathen opposition, by the labours of its first preachers.

Clarke's Commentary: 

A white horse - Supposed to represent the Gospel system, and pointing out its excellence, swiftness, and purity.

He that sat on him - Supposed to represent Jesus Christ.

A bow - The preaching of the Gospel, darting conviction into the hearts of sinners.

As you can see, I am not the only person to interpret seal 1 as the church taking the gospel to the world. After all, this seal was opened as soon as Jesus arrived back in heaven and took the book out of the Father's right hand. 

Most people miss this part, but the riders of the red, the black and the pale ride together: their mission is the same: STOP the advance of the gospel. But God limited their theater of operation to only 1/4 of the world. They also failed in their missing. The Gospel of our Lord is now everywhere! Since these three ride together, it should be obvious that the rider of the White horse rides alone. 

The souls in Rev 6: 9 are those who get saved during the tribulation period, along with those in Rev 7: 9--15, You read from 1st imaginations, Instead of from the Bible. So Clear of with your nonsense.

[Last Daze]

On 9/24/2018 at 7:27 AM, iamlamad said:

I say the first seal was opened when Jesus ascended - around 32 AD.

Are you saying then that the seven letters were written to seven non-existent churches?

[iamlamad]

On 9/25/2018 at 10:31 AM, Last Daze said:

Are you saying then that the seven letters were written to seven non-existent churches?

No, and neither am I saying that John was 2 years old when called up to heaven. 

It was very likely around 95 AD when john Saw Jesus and received the messages for the 7 churches. They were certainly real churches in existence at the time.

Next, John was called up to heaven. There he began seeing visions. A vision can be of the past, present or future, or a mixture of any of these. In John's case, He first saw a vision of the past (while he was still in 95 AD). He was looking into the throne room of the past, a time while Jesus was still on the earth so NOT IN heaven. 

Where did the vision of the past end, and become a vision of John's "now" or in His future? Since the 5th seal was for church age martyrs and they were still coming in in John's day, the vision changed from history to future between the 5th and 6th seal. From that time on, must of what John saw was future still to us today.

Edited September 26, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

The souls in Rev 6: 9 are those who get saved during the tribulation period, along with those in Rev 7: 9--15, You read from 1st imaginations, Instead of from the Bible. So Clear of with your nonsense.

Don't give us theory, show us scripture. Since chapter 4 was a time when Jesus was still on earth, and chapter 5 was the time when He ascended, SHOW US where you added the 2000 years! 

IF 6:9 is still future to us today, somewhere you had to add 2000 years. Show us where John added it, or else we will know YOU added it. 

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

NOT you again, Clear off with your nonsense.

It seems, the written word, rightly divided then is nonsense to you. 

Try reading it without preconceived glasses! You will be amazed at what you read!