Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[Alan Hales]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It seems, the written word, rightly divided then is nonsense to you. 

Try reading it without preconceived glasses! You will be amazed at what you read!

Not you again with your nonsense.

[Alan Hales]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Don't give us theory, show us scripture. Since chapter 4 was a time when Jesus was still on earth, and chapter 5 was the time when He ascended, SHOW US where you added the 2000 years! 

IF 6:9 is still future to us today, somewhere you had to add 2000 years. Show us where John added it, or else we will know YOU added it. 

Not you again with your nonsense. You believe what you want But I'll believe the Bible.

[iamlamad]

6 minutes ago, Alan Hales said:

Not you again with your nonsense.

Now we all know YOU added the 2000 years. 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

Not you again with your nonsense. You believe what you want But I'll believe the Bible.

It is really sad when a brother in Christ cannot believe what is written. Go back and read chapters 4 & 5 again. You are missing the main points. 

Jesus was NOT in the throne room - but showed up suddenly in chapter 5

The Holy Spirit WAS in the throne room - but was sent down the moment Jesus ascended.

No man was found at first, but later JESUS was found, showing us the movement of time.

The question you have never faced:

WHY was Jesus not in the throne room in chapter 4?

WHY was no man found in that first search?

WHY was the Holy Spirit there in chapter 4 and sent down in chapter 5?

Until you face these questions, you will never understand this part of John's vision. 

You call this nonsense, but it is really the WORD OF GOD. You say you believe the bible, but it is very clear that you don't. You believe your version of what you imagine the bible says here. Take off your preconceived glasses and read!

You have continually criticized what I write, but I notice, you have not told us what YOU think the first 5 seals are to represent. Are you afraid of what others will say of your theories?

Edited September 26, 2018 by iamlamad

[Last Daze]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No, and neither am I saying that John was 2 years old when called up to heaven. 

It was very likely around 95 AD when john Saw Jesus and received the messages for he 7 churches. They were certainly real churches in existence at the time.

Next, John was called up to heaven. There he began seeing visions. A vision can be of the past, present or future, or a mixture of any of these. In John's case, He first saw a vision of the past (while he was still in 95 AD). He was looking into the throne room of the past, a time while Jesus was still on the earth so NOT IN heaven. 

Where did the vision of the past end, and become a vision of John's "now" or in His future? Since the 5th seal was for church age martyrs and they were still coming in in John's day, the vision changed from history to future between the 5th and 6th seal. From that time on, must of what John saw was future still to us today.

Except your version does not align with the given chronology.

• Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.  Revelation 1:19
• After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.  Revelation 4:1

The opening of the seals must take place after the seven letters.  I can't buy into your "time-travel" version.  If God wanted the sequence of events to be as you say, He would have laid it out that way.  He didn't.  Focus in on the phrase "what must take place after these things" paying particular attention to the preposition "after."  The things that take place as the seals are opened occur after the seven letters to the seven churches.  Nothing indicates that an exception is made for the first seal.  Your chronology is baseless.

[Alan Hales]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is really sad when a brother in Christ cannot believe what is written. Go back and read chapters 4 & 5 again. You are missing the main points. 

Jesus was NOT in the throne room - but showed up suddenly in chapter 4.

The Holy Spirit WAS in the throne room - but was sent down the moment Jesus ascended.

No man was found at first, but later JESUS was found, showing us the movement of time.

The question you have never faced:

WHY was Jesus not in the throne room in chapter 4?

WHY was no man found in that first search?

WHY was the Holy Spirit there in chapter 4 and sent down in chapter 5?

Until you face these questions, you will never understand this part of John's vision. 

You call this nonsense, but it is really the WORD OF GOD. You say you believe the bible, but it is very clear that you don't. You believe your version of what you imagine the bible says here. Take off your preconceived glasses and read!

You have continually criticized what I write, but I notice, you have not told us what YOU think the first 5 seals are to represent. Are you afraid of what others will say of your theories?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will you clear off with your nonsense. I'm not casting my pearls before swine anymore.

[iamlamad]

23 minutes ago, Alan Hales said:

Will you clear off with your nonsense. I'm not casting my pearls before swine anymore.

What kind of a heart do you have - that you refuse to learn? 

If the shoe fits:

1 Corinthians 14:³⁸ But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Anyway, I don't mind that you call me swine, because I know you do it in ignorance. I don't take offence.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Except your version does not align with the given chronology.

• Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.  Revelation 1:19
• After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.  Revelation 4:1

The opening of the seals must take place after the seven letters.  I can't buy into your "time-travel" version.  If God wanted the sequence of events to be as you say, He would have laid it out that way.  He didn't.  Focus in on the phrase "what must take place after these things" paying particular attention to the preposition "after."  The things that take place as the seals are opened occur after the seven letters to the seven churches.  Nothing indicates that an exception is made for the first seal.  Your chronology is baseless.

This is not really true except in your imagination. 

Verse 19 is simply telling John He will be writing of historic events, present events and future events.  And in fact, he did just that.

In verse 4:1 You are reading it like this:  I will [ONLY]  show you what must take place after these things

Only John did not insert that "only" in.  You imagine it is there. 

The question is, in chapters 4 thought the end of the book, DID God show John what would take place after the letters were sent to the churchs?  You know the answer is yes. 

The opening of the seals must take place after the seven letters.   No, you only imagine that because you imagine an ONLY. God DID show John many things of the future. but He also showed John some historic events. 

I can't buy into your "time-travel" version.  The evidence is there: it is John's version - not mine. It was John that showed us Jesus suddenly appearing into the throne room and sending the Holy Spirit down. I only read it and understand it. I did not create it!

How would You explain why Jesus was not in the throne room in chapter 4, why "no man was found" and why the Holy Spirit was there - but was sent down in chapter 5?

If God wanted the sequence of events to be as you say, He would have laid it out that way.   He DID!  He showed us a throne room with Jesus ABSENT.  He showed us a search for one worthy that ended in failure. He showed us the Holy Spirit being sent down. All these things to show us TIMING.

I will show you what must take place after these things.   Did you not read chapters 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ETC: where God DID show John what would take place in the future? This phrase is NOT proof that God could not use some history to teach future.

[Last Daze]

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

This is not really true except in your imagination. 

Verse 19 is simply telling John He will be writing of historic events, present events and future events.  And in fact, he did just that.

In verse 4:1 You are reading it like this:  I will [ONLY]  show you what must take place after these things

Only John did not insert that "only" in.  You imagine it is there. 

The question is, in chapters 4 thought the end of the book, DID God show John what would take place after the letters were sent to the churchs?  You know the answer is yes. 

The opening of the seals must take place after the seven letters.   No, you only imagine that because you imagine an ONLY. God DID show John many things of the future. but He also showed John some historic events. 

I can't buy into your "time-travel" version.  The evidence is there: it is John's version - not mine. It was John that showed us Jesus suddenly appearing into the throne room and sending the Holy Spirit down. I only read it and understand it. I did not create it!

How would You explain why Jesus was not in the throne room in chapter 4, why "no man was found" and why the Holy Spirit was there - but was sent down in chapter 5?

If God wanted the sequence of events to be as you say, He would have laid it out that way.   He DID!  He showed us a throne room with Jesus ABSENT.  He showed us a search for one worthy that ended in failure. He showed us the Holy Spirit being sent down. All these things to show us TIMING.

I will show you what must take place after these things.   Did you not read chapters 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ETC: where God DID show John what would take place in the future? This phrase is NOT proof that God could not use some history to teach future.

It's always everyone else's imagination, isn't it?  It's pretty clear to me what's at work here.  Have a great life.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

It's always everyone else's imagination, isn't it?  It's pretty clear to me what's at work here.  Have a great life.

I  guess people can read, but it seems many read without understanding. Try to get some understanding. 

Proverbs 4:7

“The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.

 

Read chapters 4 and 5 again without preconceptions!  What SHOULD be clear to you is the intent of the Author!

Edited September 26, 2018 by iamlamad