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Judas Iscariot


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5 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:
On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:07 PM, Unfailing Presence said:

Judas's maneuvered his way into being charge of the money from the very beginning because therein was what he loved and treasured :

                              " ..he was a thief , and had the bag . "   ( John 12 : 6)

He never cared for others , ever

                                                                   "..not that he cared for the poor ." ( John 12 : 6 )

His masquerade obviously did not fool everyone .

The only way one could have witnessed   3 years worth Lazarus raised from the dead  type miracles , and then desired to be satisfied by nothing more than the creature comforts of this

world money can buy is if the cistern they drink from never contained  the Water of Life to begin with .

                                                                                        " The Lord is my strength and song . "  ( Psalm 118 : 14 )    

A good observation. I'll also add that Judas probably wanted to "get in on a good thing", thinking that Jesus would take the throne and create His kingdom on earth. When things didn't go according to plan, I think Judas wanted to put Jesus in a position so that "His hand was forced" and that Jesus would have to demonstrate His power.

Instead, we all know how it ended for Judas...

Right .  A lot of money involved in the type of earthly kingdom Judas was thinking of .

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A blaring truth is that Judas never called Jesus LORD.  He called him rabbi. All the other apostles did call Jesus LORD . Judas was never enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Judas name was NEVER in the Book Of Life. 

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On 9/20/2018 at 10:52 AM, 1sheep said:

A blaring truth is that Judas never called Jesus LORD.  He called him rabbi. All the other apostles did call Jesus LORD . Judas was never enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Judas name was NEVER in the Book Of Life. 

Let's think about the word NEVER for a moment.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Based on the above two verses and many more, I'm of the opinion everyone's name is written in the Book of Life from the beginning, as the Lord is not willing that 'any' should perish. I believe when the eternal choice of rejecting His Son, their name is "Blotted" out of the Book of Life. If it was not there in the beginning, it couldn't be blotted out. 

Just my thoughts.

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16 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Let's think about the word NEVER for a moment.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Based on the above two verses and many more, I'm of the opinion everyone's name is written in the Book of Life from the beginning, as the Lord is not willing that 'any' should perish. I believe when the eternal choice of rejecting His Son, their name is "Blotted" out of the Book of Life. If it was not there in the beginning, it couldn't be blotted out. 

Just my thoughts.

Hi Dennis. Your thinking leaves out some facts written and also has  assumed another meaning in other written passages. The first fact is that noone can be guaranteed salvation without confessing that Jesus is Lord, was raised from the dead,and sits at the right hand of the Father.Romans 10:9-10. God does not do things backwards. He is in perfect order. 

The second thing to consider is that it is impossible to persevere to the end without being reborn in Christ. Having your name in the book of life "KEEPS YOU FROM "doing what would get you erased from the book of life.  The promise " I will not erase his name from the book of life" does not imply that some DO have their names erased. It simply says, to the one who conquers; it will not happen. It is saying to never be cavalier or triffling with our salvation. We have a responsibility to not be slack .  The conquering that keeps you from being erased is GUARANTEED BY BEING IN THE BOOK. That is the point in Rev 13: 8 and 17:8. Being in the book is the only reason we can overcome! It isnt our own doing by our power but it. Is the doing and power of the HOLY SPIRIT. Phillipians explains the verses already discussed: Work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who WORKS IN YOU, both the will and to work for HIS GOOD PLEASURE.  It is not a contradiction to say if you are in the book that you will conquer!!  The whole point is that we will conquer by Gods sovereinty ! Praise the Lord. We are safe IF we are in the book of life . We are in the book because we were reborn again IN CHRIST . IT IS THE TRUINE LORD THAT KEEPS US WITH HIS POWER AND NOT OURS. God does use real warnings to keep us vigilant and to keep us persevering. We press on and make our salvation our own because Christ has made us his own ie Phil 3: 12 ..Colossians 1:11-12, Galatians 6:9, James 1:12, 2 Thessalonians 3:13, Proverbs 3:5-6, John 15:7..  I have provided many scriptures that demonstrate that we persevere because we are IN the book of life. Being counted righteous cannot happen until we are reborn again in Christ. 2 Corinthians 1:21. Eph 6:11. 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/18/2018 at 10:23 AM, Giller said:

He was at the beginning, but not at the end.

He fell because of transgression.

Judas was never saved. He was the Only one that never called Jesus Lord. He was never convinced Jesus was Messiah!

There is a lesson in the Judas plight . It is opposite your understanding.  Scripture defines it. 

Romans 10 dictates one must declare with their mouth ' Jesus is Lord'.

John 10:28.29. I give them eternal life and they will never perish. Noone can snatch them out of MY hand. My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. Noone can snatch them out of My Fathers hand. 

It is so devastaing to the Body of Christ and those nit yet redeemed for the message to be unchallenged that a person can lose their salvation! If a person falls away it is because tgey were never saved to begin with. They had a godly appearance and no power thereof. They were a TARE

....Now I can see clearly why you asked my stance on eternal redemption in a private email. Better for you to try to ask in private the new person rather than dealing with the whole osas crowd. I found it suspect. Still do.

The cats out of the bag.

Let whats done in secret come to light.....para luke 8

Let God be found true and every man a liar. Romans 3

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Butero said:

This is one of those topics that will never be agreed upon by the whole church.  Yes, a person can be genuinely saved and then fall away and be lost again.  That is what happened to the prodigal son.  He was saved (a child of God the Father), dead and lost, and later alive again and found.  Those who are tares are not sons of God the Father to begin with.  They are children of the devil.  

You state that Judas Iscariot was the only disciple never to call Jesus Lord, which means that you must be able to show that the other eleven are on record calling Jesus Lord.  Can you do that?  

If you know your bible you wouldnt ask me to provide it. You would know!! Go through the gospels and discover for yourself. You will learn more rather than my spoon feeding you.

As far as osas is concerned; Scripture must be taken in context. I provided a few of the many scripture that proves my exegesis.

How sad it is that you rely on your own merit to be saved. That kind of thinking is reaped in works to be saved rather than works as evidence of being saved. God says your thinking is stinch to his nostrils ......as a filthy menstrual rag. 

Who has bewitched you?

Edited by 1sheep
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1 minute ago, Butero said:

First of all, I have read the Bible through at least 16 times, but I never looked to make sure each individual Apostle called Jesus Lord.  You made the claim.  Prove it.  Until you do, it is unsubstantiated.  I can provide plenty of scriptures that show you can lose your salvation, and have.  I have been through many debates over the last several decades on this topic.  You will find out that I know the scriptures well if you insist on challenging me.  

God does not say any such thing about my beliefs.  Again, I know what the Bible says.  You may get away with peddling that kind of nonsense to uneducated people, but not with me.  I challenged you to show where each of the other Apostles called Jesus Lord.  That would be the other eleven, plus Matthias who replaced Judas Iscariot.  Or don't do it.  That makes it an unsubstantiated claim.  I am also challenging you to show me where the Bible says my way of thinking is a "stinch to his nostrils...as a filthy menstrual rag?"  The definition of a filthy menstrual rag is in connection with the word abomination.  I am telling you that to make the search easier for you.  That way you can narrow your search.  Good luck!    

In the first place; I responded to giller for my own reasons. Responding to him on this thread was a means to an end. Do you understand that? You chose to weigh in. That does not make me in debt to you to respond. I was gracious to respond once. Im not peddling anything .  I dont care how many times you claim to read the bible. I dont care how many tines yoy say I ,I ,I !  You said 'I ' Nine times!! Impressive :rolleyes:

Mind knowledge is not spirit and truth knowledge. 

Its devastating to YOU that you dont understand what God is saying. You want to feel responsible for your redemption. That is Pride. It is evident in the 9' I's too.

Working to be saved  is absurd and borders blasphemy! As if the finished work if Christ who draws us cannot carry the ball to the finish line( so to speak)! 

I have already witnessed that you do not know scripture the way you think although you laud yourself as one who does . Ref: Nine 'I's.

Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought but think of yourself with sober judgement according to the measure of faith God has given you. Romans 12:3.....

Bible belt cultural christians......ah?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Butero said:

You clearly don't know what you are talking about or you would back up your claims.   If you can't show what you said is true, nobody should take you serious.  

Well you certainly cant bully me that is certain. Can you read? I dont like repeating myself. I back up plenty to those who come in humility. 

Cultural christians are a dime a dozen .?

 

 

 

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I have no idea if Judas was saved or lost before he betrayed Jesus.  Only God knows for sure, but I disagree with that comment that makes out like the KJV Bible got things wrong by using the word repented.  He was clearly sorry for what he did or he wouldn't have thrown the money away.  He was so greedy, he sold the Lord for thirty pieces of silver, and was sorrowful enough to give it back.  His conscience was so guilty, he hung himself.   Maybe he did repent, but was condemned because he killed himself as his last act?  Only God knows the answer to these questions.  

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He was clearly sorry for his actions, but I don't think he was saved, he was a scoundrel, thief etc but was he growing as a Christian ?

What we don't know is if he was trying to force Jesus hand, seeing they all believed he was to be king on earth at that time & they all would have high position.

Just a thought.

 

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