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Judas Iscariot


warrior12

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Just now, other one said:

goodness, you sure seem to have a hot button over this so I'll let you have the last word....

I don't want the last word mate? I just post what I have found in the Word of God over many years of study, hoping to answer your questions. I have asked all the questions you have asked over my lifetime and I searched God's Word for the answers, nothing more.

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20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

There is not one statement in the Bible that says Judas was insane, sick, or a devil from the beginning. He was a devil or an adversary against Christ toward the latter part of His ministry and this is all the bible does say about the question (John 6:70). He was once a saved man as were all the other apostles including Peter who denied Christ and cursed that he did not know Him.

Not sidetracking from the thread and topic at hand, but this statement strikes me as proof that indeed a born again believer can loose his salvation, if as you said [with  scripture reference you provided ]  Judas was born again. Am I correct in my assessment here ?.

Edited by warrior12
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10 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Not sidetracking from the thread and topic at hand, but this statement strikes me as proof that indeed a born again believer can loose his salvation, if as you said Judas was born again. Am I correct in my assessment here ?.

Yes, Judas was a saved man as were all the other disciples and saved man can loose their salvation if they turn to sin and fail to repent. There are many such examples in Scripture.

Edited by HAZARD
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On 8/27/2018 at 9:13 AM, Unfailing Presence said:

We know that Judas was not a believer as of the Last Supper because we are told that " Satan entered into him "  .

This demonic possession is not possible if someone be in Christ . We are all subject to Satan's temptations but spiritual indwelling , possession  is an entirely different matter .

                           " And after the sop Satan entered into him "  ( John 13 : 27 )

I believe Satan was still in control of Judas in the Garden at the night of  betrayal .

I think your conclusions there, are mostly valid, but I am inclined to think that it is impossible for a believer to be possessed, because  of several thoughts:

43“Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. 44“Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. 45“Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”

That seems to indicated that unoccupied "houses" (bodies), can harbor spirits. 

28When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way. 29And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?” 30Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. 31The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” 32And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters.

That one seems to indicate, that the bodies do not necessarily need to be human, and I think also, that perhaps demons do not like to be "homeless".

I also suspect, that Satan is not omnipresent, so I would agree that Satan could have, would have, left Judas once he had no further use of him, and certainly by the time Judas killed himself, he was of no use.

Where I am not so inclined to agree with you (and this is more of a personal belief that any real exegesis), is that I do not think the disciples were "in Christ". My feeling is that that term, or at least the state where a believer is possession proof, would be when believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus is referring to this as a future even, while He was with the disciples:

  25“These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27“Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28“You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29“Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. 

I also believe that this was fulfilled in Acts 2:

1When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Finally, I believe (without proof), the believers will not be posessed, because we have the Holy Spirit living within us, and that He would not have have a demon as a room-mate, so:

I think that Christians, after Pentecost, can not be posessed, but that does not extend to believers alive at the time Jesus was on earth,  though I have no reason to think that He would not have cast demons out, had they possessed on of Jesus' disciples. Judas was a disciple, in fact, an apostle. However, Judas had a role to play in fulfilling prophecy, and in helping to see to it that Jesus was crucified, which was always the plan, not some after-thought, as shown later in Acts 2 where it says:

23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

End of my commentary

 

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5 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Yes, Judas was a saved man as ere all the other disciples and saved man can loose their salvation if they turn to sin and fail to repent. There are many such examples in Scripture.

Thank you for the clarifying .

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2 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Thank you for the clarifying .

Scriptures teach that Judas, "By Transgression fell." Fell from what? He Fell From Salvation. He never fell over, off a cliff out of a tree, he fell from salvation.

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6 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Once ones name is removed from God's book of life one is lost forever.

Exodus 32:  33, And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 

Rev 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

Shalom, HAZARD.

Don't you think there might just be a difference between "the book of life" and the "LAMB'S book of life?"

Revelation 13:8 (KJV)

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

and

Revelation 21:27 (KJV)

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

You've been referring to the Lamb's book of life; I was talking about the simple book of life, talking about who is alive and who has died.

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, HAZARD.

Don't you think there might just be a difference between "the book of life" and the "LAMB'S book of life?"

Revelation 13:8 (KJV)

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

and

Revelation 21:27 (KJV)

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

You've been referring to the Lamb's book of life; I was talking about the simple book of life, talking about who is alive and who has died.

 

Rev. 13: 8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 

There is no statement here that names have been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, but that the Lamb was planned to be slain from this time (V.8;  . . . . . Rev, 17:8)

Rev. 18:8, The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 

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Judas was like Esau who sold his birthright.

Hebrews 12:7

For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears

Speaking of Esau. 

Judas was the son of perdition and represents the antichrist  spirit. I believe Scripture is clear about this. He went to his own place. His lost. It's not a matter of judging anyone but rather believing the Bible. 

Edited by Small Fish
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Yehudah ben Shimon Esh Kirioth (Judas Iscariot)  was a tag along and not specifically called out by the Lord. In fact when he volunteered, it was essentially given the backhand of the Lord.

Matthew 8:18–20 (AV)
18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.
19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.
20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

The account in Luke 9 only says "a certain man." But here we learn how Judas had access to the Sanhedrin (Jewish leaders). He was one of them (or at least worked for them). He was essentially a spy.

I've heard prominent preachers teach that Judas was simply a doubter that Jesus was the actual Messiah and that this is what prompted him to betray Jesus (and that at least one of those preachers believes Judas had a saving repentance and will be in heaven) ← a nut job preacher IMHO who refused to consider any of the arguments I am showing here now. But this is what the Bible says:

John 12:1–6 (NASB95)
1 Jesus, therefore, six days before the Passover, came to Bethany where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.
2 So they made Him a supper there, and Martha was serving; but Lazarus was one of those reclining at the table with Him.
3 Mary then took a pound of very costly perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.
4 But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, who was intending to betray Him, said,
5 “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people?”
6 Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.

Genesis 49:16–18 (NASB95)
16 “Dan shall judge his people, As one of the tribes of Israel.
17 “Dan shall be a serpent in the way, A horned snake in the path, That bites the horse’s heels, So that his rider falls backward.
18 “For Your salvation I wait, O Lord.

The tribe of Dan settled where the Decapolis (the ten cities / Kirioth) would one day exist.

Not to get too into demonology... there is a scripture that seems top indicate demons can freely roam from a host (animal or human) in Matthew 12 (the one who returns with seven other evil spirits). But you will notice when Jesus exorcises the evil spirits, they refer to a time that has not arrived yet, and in the case of legion make a special request not to go to the pit (Luke 8:31). ← this strongly implies once a demon enters a host they are bound to that host. Otherwise, why not just leave? Jesus is coming... time to split... Matthew 12 [may have] been a metaphor for the human host being prone to possession by demons for not being filled with the Holy Spirit upon recognition that Jesus the Messiah is come. It may also mean the host is Israel collectively.

At any rate, theologians of any kind would be hard pressed to explain why there are some demons in Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4 / Jude 6) while others roam the Earth (and appear in heaven at certain intervals [see Job chapters 1 and 2]) .

Satan was so convinced he could defeat Jesus by having him killed, that he personally entered into Judas Iscariot (Luke 22:3 / John 13:26-27). It's the only time he did this.

At some point afterward, he realized he had played right into the Lord's plan.

And this is what prompted Judas Iscariot to try to stop what he started. Not remorse over Jesus or a changed heart.

But the devil did too good a job on the Sanhedrin and they reviled any notion of stopping the riding of the Nazarene from their lives.

And he threw the silver at them and went in such rage IMHO the host Judas hung himself over the inner rage of the devil himself in his bosom.

Acts 1:23–25 (NASB95)
23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

Abraham's bosom has been empty since Jesus died on the cross. But Sheol is described in Luke 16:19-31 as having three divisions:

923069878_Sheol(2).jpg.b4227db095e92b47d28609fe19ff7f46.jpg

The deep, the abyss, the great divide between Lazarus and the rich man... the inner sides of the pit:

Isaiah 14:12–17 (NASB95)
12 “How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
13 “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
14 ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 “Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
16 “Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world like a wilderness And overthrew its cities, Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?’

Revelation 20 (NASB95)
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Revelation 20 (NASB95)
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

May scoff at the notion that Satan has been bound in Sheol for 2000 years. Look at the evil that has happened in that time. Humanity could easily have caused it all (don't underestimate how evil humanity is)! There are still evil spirits / demons roaming the earth but their leader is in exile. And he will one day return from exile. Any familiar with the occult recognizes this as one of their doctrines.

If you think of it... the Antichrist / False Messiah to come will have to convince everyone who is not a legitimate Christian (Matthew 24:24)... what better way than for Judas Iscariot to return from the dead and be able to prove scientifically he lived 2000 years ago... ? Everybody but Spirit-filled Christians will believe everything that he says. Ever wonder how a Jewish Temple could be built on Temple mount with two Islamic mosques up there? This is how. Convince the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, cults, atheists, and... sadly... Jews (who don't believe in Jesus) with science to back and to prove that this man lived 2000 years ago who now claims to be God above every god...

That's who Judas of the Cities is.

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