Transubstantiation Unsubstantiated Substantially :P

[HAZARD]

 Scripture proves the Lords supper is the outward rite in which believers eat broken bread, not real flesh, and drink the fruit of the vine, not real blood, to COMMEMORATE the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus Christ until He comes again (READ, Matt. 26:26-30; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-30), there is not excuse for believing otherwise.



The "symbols," the "bread" and the "wine," will always remain just that, "literal bread and wine" regardless of who or what prayer is said over them.

No man can change these elements into Jesus Christs real flesh and blood or call Him down from His Heavenly throne every day, several times every day, in thousands of churches throughout the world, in any sense. To believe otherwise is pure paganism, idolatry, and superstition.

Transubstantiation was declared and decreed by Pope Innocent 111 in the year 1215 A.D. By this doctrin the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during Mass. T

he Gospel condems such absurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19,, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:26). The adoration of the wafer (HOST) was invented by Pope Honorius in 1220 A.D. The Catholic Church also made it obligatory to have communion at leats one per week, and even every day if possible. Priests have communion four or five times per day, which means, every time they say mass.

Jesus Himself concurred that the wine was purely symbolic of the blood He shed for mankind when He said, and its recorded in three places in the New Testament;

Matthew 26:29  But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mark 14:25  Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

[Unfailing Presence]

Jesus's use of things temporal / physical ,  was to convey a higher spiritual purpose / reality .   Not as a MEDIUM to one .  And He used this technique repeatedly throughout His ministry .

Look at the cross . A symbol of horrific death & suffering  used by the Lord to convey Divine Spiritual power to the believer . Spiritual power that vanquished and overcame the world . 

Does the Transubstantiation crowd then strap a physical cross to their backs as they head out the door to work each morning as Jesus said to do ?

Really ? 

 

Consider ,    " Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ."  ( John 3 : 3 ) 

But Nicodemus instinctively knew to take such a statement from a teacher sent from God who is a spirit  at shallow , face , physical value  was to fall short of the mark .

He did not understand the deeper  meaning at first  , but he  knew that there was one .

                        "  How can a man be born when he is old  ? " 

A " hard saying "  yes ? 

So being this was Nicodemus's first contact with Jesus , He elaborated for him  :

                          " Except a man be born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God .

                             That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit . "   ( John 3 : 5-6 ) 

The Lords Supper is not a message of  " flesh " &  " blood "   any more than being born again is a message of being reconnected to the flesh of the  umbilical cord .

It is a message of Spirit . 

What those stuck in spiritual first gear do not understand is that unlike Nicodemus , the woman at the well , etc , etc, etc, & etc .. those who were present at the Last Supper had been in the Lord's presence for three years . traveling , preaching , eating , sleeping , witnessing His miracles . 

For THREE years they had been with Him .

To convey the deeper spiritual meaning at that point , to them who had been with Him three years  would have been re-plowing spiritual ground that had  undoubtedly been plowed many times before . In fact there is another passage in scripture that gives good indication the deeper spiritual  meaning had been explained to them long ago .

As well as being a very disheartening thing to the disciples in that if Jesus did feel the need to explain the deeper spiritual meaning AGAIN ,  at that moment , they undoubtedly would   have been thinking to themselves :        

            " Does He really believe we are so spiritually immature that we do not understand at this late date ? "  

He was trying to instill spiritual poise in them at this point , not spiritual weakness . 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Unfailing Presence

[Willa]

On 8/28/2018 at 8:20 PM, DignifiedResponse said:

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Jesus is saying that eating His flesh and partaking of His blood profits nothing.  It is His words that impart grace and life.  This is the key to understanding the passage.

[Patrick Miron]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:30 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

Why not discuss it here? Do you believe in Transubstantiation? If so, how does it work? I am not being sarcastic or demeaning, I would love to fully understand the Catholic view of the Lord’s Supper or Eucharist. I’ve combed the Catholic Catechism and it lays out the doctrine, but what of the experience? What is a Catholic sense, feel, and what is suppose to happen spiritually? 

Why not discuss it here? [1] Do you believe in Transubstantiation? [2] If so, how does it work? I am not being sarcastic or demeaning, I would love to fully understand the Catholic view of the Lord’s Supper or Eucharist. I’ve combed the Catholic Catechism and it lays out the doctrine, but what of the experience? [3] What is a Catholic sense, feel, and what is suppose to happen spiritually? 

 

REPLY

Sure:

Do I believe in it? Absolutely, without question or any reservations, as do MILLIONS of fellow Informed Catholics

[2] If so, how does it work?

My friend did you know that that you have touched on the very foundation of Catholicism, and therefore Christianity, in asking this question?

This is of such critical importance that I will endeavor a full, complete and comprehensive answer to your question. So it will be lengthy.

Our Catholic Catechism explains its critical importance to all of us.

1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life." "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch. {sacrifice}

1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking."

 

Let’s began a systematic approach by sharing that the term “Traunsbstanuation” was given birth during the Council Of Trent 1550-1555; which provided a thorough, much needed at the time, {re} explanation of many of the LONG-defined doctrines and Beliefs of the RCC; which were then under attacked and being put into “question” by Martin Luther {an apostate Catholic Monk}, and the defacto Father of the NEW 16^th Century Protestant Reformation.

Martin was intent on inventing HIS OWN Personal version of Christianity and did so by attacking many long held defined Doctrinal {defined} Beliefs of the RCC; which he very often expressed by changing Bible TEXT to better conform with HIS New Teachings. {Luther also removed 7 entire OT books to further His Cause.}

When was the term “Eucharist” first used?

“Justin Martyr (114-165).

Justin was born into a well-to-do pagan family in Samaria. He dabbled in philosophy, studying all the major schools of thought in his day. He came across an old man who told him that Christianity was the one true philosophy, and as a result, he was converted in about 132. He was the first person to use the word Eucharist {MEANS Thanksgiving} to refer to the Communion service. However, he was an apologist, not a theologian. He was referring to usage that was common in his day. So it is very likely that Eucharist was the original, first-century term for the Communion service.” {Which later morphed into a synonymous term for the “Real Presence” and the Mass. 

 

1345  As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration.{THE MASS} They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

 

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.

The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.

When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.

Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.

Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.

He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.

When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.'

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent. END QUOTES

 

 

Before getting into the definition of terms that I will be using, it seems prudent to explain WHY and HOW a Catholic Religious belief becomes a “Defined Doctrine”

At its root it’s a matter of a Faith-belief {usually already long held} being challenged.

From a practical perspective there is no actual need to formally DEFINE a belief that is long held and practiced unless and until it is being challenged. It is the act of being challenged aspect that drives “the need” to formally explain; that is to define a particular religious belief.

The challenge to the belief of the “Real Presence”; what was to become termed the “Eucharist” was by {Saint} Gregory VII, {1073-1085}

 

DECREE Of the Most Holy Eucharist/TRENT/canon number two

ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

CANON lI.-If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

{TRENT} CHAPTER IV. 
On Transubstantiation.

And because that Christ, our Redeemer, declared that which He offered under the species of bread to be truly His own body, therefore has it ever been a firm belief in the Church of God, and this holy Synod doth now declare it anew, that, by the consecration of the bread and of the wine, a conversion is made of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of His blood; which conversion is, by the holy Catholic Church, suitably and properly called Transubstantiation. END Quotes

The term Transubstantiation. itself is a Theological term; invented to DESCRIBE the process that you are asking about, BUT it ought to be rightly used in conjunction with -the term “CONSECRATION” which is the “ACTION”; The Process itself.

-What is “{the}Consecration”?

“CONSECRATION. The words of institution of the Eucharist, pronounced at Mass by which is accomplished the very sacrifice that Christ instituted at the Last Supper. The formula of consecration is uniform for all the approved canons of the Mass and reads, in literal translation: "Take and eat of this, all of you; for this is my body which will be given up for you . . .Take and drink of this, all of you; for this is the chalice of my blood, of the new and eternal testament, which will be shed for you and for many unto the remission of sins. Do this in commemoration of me." (Etym. Latin consecratio; from consecrare, to render sacred.)”  End Quotes Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

“What is Transubstantiation”?

“Transubstantiation is the process by which the bread and wine of the Eucharist is transformed into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that through transubstantiation, the risen Jesus becomes truly present in the Eucharist. The word transubstantiation is made up of two parts: 'trans' and 'substantiation.' The first part is a prefix that means 'across', 'beyond', or 'through'. It suggests that some kind of change has taken place.

The second part of the word, 'substantiation,' refers to the philosophical term substance. According to the Greek philosopher Aristotle, substance is a thing's deepest being, what it is, in and of itself. The substance of a thing is what it really and truly is beyond all appearances.

Aristotle calls those appearances accidents. An object's accidents are its external characteristics, what we can see, smell, touch, taste, and hear. Those accidents can help us identify and describe an object, but they do not necessarily capture the inner essence of a thing, its substance.

Let's look at an example. A teenager decides to dress up as a zombie for Halloween. His costume is highly realistic, complete with torn clothing, heavy makeup, and lots of fake blood. He groans like a zombie and even has an earthy, musty smell. To all appearances, in his accidents, this young man seems like a zombie, but deep down, in his substance, he is, of course, a human teenager.

In transubstantiation, then, the substance of the bread and wine changes into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The accidents of the bread and wine, their taste, smell, and appearance, remain the same, but deep down, the bread and wine no longer exist. They are completely Jesus Christ.” END QUOTES

MEANING OF THE “REAL PRESENCE”

The first definition of the Council of Trent is on the Catholic meaning of the Real Presence. The definition reads: "If anyone says that the Body and Blood together with His whole Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore the whole Christ, is truly, really and substantially contained in the Sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist, but says that Christ is present in the Sacrament only as in a sign or figure or by His power, let him be anathema." (Session 13, can.1)

There are four key terms in this solemn definition: "the whole Christ," "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained. What are we being taught by these definitions?

We are being told that the Holy Eucharist means "the whole Christ." Everything which belongs to Christ - everything which makes “Christ” Christ ‑ is present in the Blessed Sacrament. This consequently means that Christ is present in His divinity as God and in His humanity as man. Christ is present in the Eucharist with His human body and human soul, with His bodily organs and limbs and with His human mind, will and feelings ‑ "the whole Christ." Latin reads Totus Christus.

Then we are told Christ is present "truly" and not only symbolically. He is present objectively and only subjectively in the minds of believers. He is contained in the Blessed Sacrament. Consequently, if our minds realize this objective fact, we possess the truth. There is no more precious truth revealed by Christ than the truth that He is on earth, the whole Christ in the Eucharist.

We are taught that Christ is "really" present and not only figuratively. The Eucharistic presence is not a metaphor or figure of speech. It is reality. Christ exists in the Holy Eucharist. During the century when this Real Presence was defined by the Council of Trent, St. Robert Bellarmine counted the number of meanings given to Christ's words at the Last Supper: "This is My Body, this is My Blood." He found among the Protestant scholars more than two hundred interpretations except the one which says Christ is "really" present in the Eucharist.

Finally, this definition tells us that Christ is present "substantially" and not merely by the exercise of His power. True, Christ is everywhere exercising His power. Thus, we can legitimately say that Christ is present in every person in the state of grace. Christ confers His grace on those who are in His friendship. But being in the state of grace is not the same as having the Real Presence of Christ in our bodies and souls.

The Real Presence in the Eucharist is absolutely unique. Christ is not present everywhere with the wholeness of His divinity and humanity ‑ only in the Eucharist. In the Eucharist, Christ is present in the fullness of His being.

There is an analogy which may help explain the distinction. When an American author writes a book that is published worldwide, is he present to those people in Japan who read what he has written? Is his influence present in their hearts and minds? Of course. But unless he flies to Tokyo, he is not "substantially" present to those people.

The Eucharistic Christ is present on earth not only in the sense that He exercises His divine influence on the hearts and minds of human beings. Christ Himself is "substantially" present on earth in the Blessed Sacrament. Only in the Eucharist is Christ present with the wholeness of His divinity and humanity.

That is the first defined dogma on the Real Presence: "the whole Christ" is "truly," "really," and "substantially" contained in the Eucharist.   END Father John A. Hardon

 

ACCIDENTS. Things whose essence naturally requires that they exist in another being. Accidents are also called the appearances, species, or properties of a thing. These may be either physical, such as quantity, or modal, such as size or shape. Supernaturally, accidents can exist, in the absence of their natural substance, as happens with the physical properties of bread and wine after Eucharistic consecration.

MASS. The Sacrifice of the Eucharist as the central act of worship of the Catholic Church. The "Mass" is a late form of missio (sending), from which the faithful are sent to put into practice what they have learned and use the graces they have received in the Eucharistic liturgy.

As defined by the Church at the Council of Trent, in the Mass, "The same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross, is present and offered in an unbloody manner." Consequently, the Mass is a truly propitiatory sacrifice, which means that by this oblation "the Lord is appeased, He grants grace and the gift of repentance, and He pardons wrongdoings and sins, even grave ones. For it is one and the same victim.

He who now makes the offering through the ministry of priests and he who then offered himself on the cross. The only difference is the manner of offering" (Denzinger 1743).

The Mass cannot be understood apart from Calvary, of which it is a re-presentation, memorial, and effective application of the merits gained by Christ.

The re-presentation {the very same being offered time and time again} means that because Christ is really present in his humanity, in heaven and on the altar, he is capable now as he was on Good Friday of freely offering himself to the Father. He can no longer die because he now has a glorified body, but the essence of his oblation remains the same.

The Mass is also a memorial. Christ's death is commemorated not only as a psychological remembrance but as a mystical reality. He voluntarily offers himself, the eternal high priest, as really as he did on Calvary.

The Mass is, moreover, a sacred banquet or paschal meal. The banquet aspect of the Mass is the reception of Holy Communion by the celebrant and the people, when the same Christ who offers himself to the Father as a sacrifice then gives himself to the faithful as their heavenly food. It was this fact that inspired the Holy See, after the Second Vatican Council, to restore the practice of receiving Communion under both kinds for all the faithful: "The entire tradition of the Church teaches that the faithful participate more perfectly in the Eucharistic celebration through sacramental Communion. By Communion, in fact, the faithful share more fully in the Eucharistic Sacrifice. In this way they are not limited to sharing in the sacrifice by faith and prayer, nor to merely spiritual communion with Christ offered on the altar, but receive Christ himself sacramentally, so as to receive more fully the fruits of this most holy sacrifice. In order that the fullness of the sign in the Eucharistic banquet may be seen more clearly by the faithful, the Second Vatican Council prescribed that in certain cases, to be decided by the Holy See, the faithful could receive Holy Communion under both species" (Sacramentali Communione, June 29, 1970).

Finally the Mass is the divinely ordained means of applying the merits of Calvary. Christ won for the world all the graces it needs for salvation and sanctification. But these blessings are conferred gradually and continually since Calvary and mainly through the Mass. Their measure of conferral is in proportion to the faith and loving response of the faithful who unite themselves in spirit with the Mass.

It is in this sense that the Mass is an oblation of the whole Mystical Body, head and members. Yet, among the faithful, some have been ordained priests and their role in the Mass is essentially different from that of the laity. The priest is indispensable, since he alone by his powers can change the elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Nevertheless the role of the participants is of great importance; not as though there would be no Mass without a congregation but because the people's "full, active and conscious participation will involve them in both body and soul and will inspire them with faith, hope and charity." "Go, [the congregation] is dismissed.") End Quotes Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

WHAT Happens At Mass?

“Since the second century, the Mass (or the Eucharistic Liturgy) has had a structure that is common to all Catholics. While there can be different emphases during the celebration of Mass in Eastern Churches, they maintain the fundamental twofold structure with which members of the Latin Church are familiar. Thus, the Mass unfolds in two major parts that form a single act of worship. First, there is the Liturgy of the Word, with Scripture readings, homily, Profession of Faith, and General Intercessions. Second, there is the Liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the Eucharistic Prayer, and the reception of Holy Communion. The essential elements of Eucharistic celebrations may be summarized in the following four points.

1. The Introductory Rites

The Christian community, united by the Holy Spirit, gathers for worship in response to God’s call. Jesus, our High Priest, is the principal agent of our celebration. The bishop or priest acts in the person of Christ, the Head of the Church. All the worshipers participate actively with interior devout attention and with external reverence shown by singing the hymns and giving the responses and, when appropriate, observing silence. There are also the deacon, the lectors, those who present the offerings, the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the altar servers, the musicians, and other ministers. This first movement contains the Introductory Rites, which begin the celebration of the Mass. These include the Penitential Rite, the Gloria, and the Opening Prayer.

Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people” (1 Pt 2:9, 4-5) have a right and obligation by reason of their baptism. (SC, no. 14)

2. Liturgy of the Word

Over the course of the liturgical year, readings from Scripture, especially the Gospels, provide the heart of this part of the celebration. The proclamation of God’s Word and its explanation are meant to arouse our faith and prepare us for an ever deeper participation in the mystery of the Eucharist. The readings are followed by a homily from a bishop, priest, or deacon; the Profession of Faith in the recitation of the Creed; and intercessory prayers.

3. Liturgy of the Eucharist

a. The Preparation of the Gifts (Jesus took bread and wine). The offerings of bread and wine are received by the priest, who may be assisted by a deacon. “They will be offered by the priest in the name of Christ in the Eucharistic sacrifice in which they will become his Body and Blood” (CCC, no. 1350). From the earliest days of the Church, there was also an offering of gifts for the poor and needy. This has become the customary place and time for the parish collection.

b. The Eucharistic Prayer (Jesus blessed and gave thanks). This is the heart of the Eucharistic Liturgy, which unfolds in the following manner.

Thanksgiving (expressed especially in the Preface): In this prayer, we thank God the Father, through Christ in the Spirit, for the gifts of creation, salvation, and sanctification.

Acclamation: The whole congregation joins with the angels and saints in singing or saying the Sanctus (Holy, Holy).

Epiclesis (Invocation): The Church implores the power of the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine offered by human hands into Christ’s Body and Blood.

Institution Narrative and Consecration: The priest proclaims Jesus’ words at the Last Supper over the bread and wine. “The power of the words and the action of Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit, make sacramentally present, under the species of bread and wine, Christ’s Body and Blood, his sacrifice offered on the cross for all” (CCC, no. 1353).

Anamnesis (The Remembrance): We recall the death and Resurrection of Christ and look forward to his glorious return.

Second Epiclesis: The Holy Spirit is invoked upon the gathered community, to bring unity to the worshippers who will receive Holy Communion.

Intercessions: With the whole Communion of Saints and all God’s people on earth, we pray for the needs of all the members of the Church, living and dead.

Doxology and Great Amen: We conclude the Eucharistic Prayer with praise of God the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit. This glorification is confirmed and concluded by the people’s acclamation “Amen.”

c. Communion Rite (Jesus broke the bread and gave his Body and Blood). After the Lord’s Prayer, the Lamb of God is sung or said during the breaking of the Body of Christ, or fraction, then we receive the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion. The Communion Rite concludes with a closing prayer.

4. Concluding Rite

Following the prayer after Holy Communion, the priest blesses the people and dismisses the assembly.

Centuries of reflection on the Eucharist have left us a spiritual heritage that continues to deepen and grow. Three key truths about the Eucharist draw our attention: it is a Sacrifice, a Holy Meal, and the Real Presence of Christ.

You can read more from the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, order your own copy, or read questions about it at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website.

” END QUOTES

So NOW the BIG Question for non-Catholic Christians: Yea BUT is it in the BIBLE?

The issue of unbelief by many Christians is actually pure “IGNORANCE”, that is a lack of correct understanding, wrought by a perceived “right” of self-interpretation of the Bible; which frankly is forbidden by the Bible itself.

2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy {meaning “understanding”} of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy {CORRECT UNDERSTANDING} ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise

The Bibles OWN Testimony: And for this exercise I will use the King James AND the Catholic Douay Bibles. The KJV will be listed first then the Douay Bible. …. Oh lest you’re tempted to claim that the RCC changed the BIBLE; it is historically provable that that Douay Bible NT was translated into English about 30 years PRIOR to the King James in German.

“Many anti-Catholics accuse the Church of having hidden Scripture from the faithful by refusing to translate them into the vernacular tongue.

The Douay-Rheims provides a particularly telling counterexample. It was completed in 1609, making it older than the KJV, which was not published until 1611. The fact that the Rheims New Testament was published in 1582 meant that it appeared almost thirty years before the KJV New Testament.” END QUOTES

 

Mt. 26:26-28

NV 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."R

HE 26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke and gave to his disciples and said: Take ye and eat. This is my body.NK

JV 27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.RH

E 27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this.

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

Mk. 14: 22-24

NV 22 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."R

HE 22 And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke and gave to them and said: Take ye. This is my body.N

V 23 Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.R

E 23 And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it.NKJ

V 24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.RH

E 24 And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.

Lk. 22: 19-20

19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."R

19 And taking bread, he gave thanks and brake and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

20 In like manner, the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the New Testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

John 6:47-57

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life

47 Amen, amen, I say unto you: He that believeth in me hath everlasting life

48 I am the bread of lifeRHE 

48 I am the bread of life

49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead

50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven that one may eat of it and not die

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven: that if any man eat of it, he may not die

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. (6-52) If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?"RHE 

52 (6-53) The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?NKJV 

53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you

53 (6-54) Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you

54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

54 (6-55) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed

55 (6-56) For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

56 (6-57) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him

57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.RHE 

57 (6-58) As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     New King James Version

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible

John 6:65-69

65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

65 (6-66) And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more

66 (6-67) After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with {MEANS Abandoned Him}him.

67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"

67 (6-68) Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life

68 (6-69) And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

69 (6-70) And we have believed and have known that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.

Paul 1st Cor. 11:23-30

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread

24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me

25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the New Testament in my blood. This do YOU, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice

29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep

30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep. {This means are self-condemned to HELL unless they REPENT and Convert}

END BIBLE QUOTES

Summation:

First: all of the above is testified as being the literal truth through the sacrificial offering of  their BLOOD to by Five different Catholic Authors of the New Testament; three of who are members of the 12 Apostles; four of who gave their very lives in grotesque way’s {and they attempted to BOIL John also but Jesus saved him}. There was, and there is no single issue or point of belief of greater significance of importance than the issue of the REAL PRESENCE as deified earlier in this document; profoundly, because it actually IS the very Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.  

How does it Happen?

1 It has to be {and can be} only accomplished by an Ordained Catholic Or Orthodox Priest; who have verifiable Direct Apostolic Succession: “{YOU}DO THIS in Commemoration of ME”}

2 The Eucharist is:

FROM God the Father

OF God the Son

BY God the Holy Spirit {through His Priest}

This is a Mystery wrapped up in two consecutive miracles

   First miracle: at the very instant of the Consecration/ Traunsbstanuation; the Priest is miraculously transformed into an “alter Chrtius” {another Christ}

With the WORDS:

This IS MY Body

This IS MY Blood

The ordinary is transformed into the EXTRAORDINARY

    Secondly: the Holy Spirt THROUGH His Priest {Miracle #2} is empowered to transform what looks, smells, taste, and feels like ordinary {unleavened bread and wine} into the LITERAL Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the NOW GLORIFIED Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus IN Person.  

    Third: It is to be noted that this is the Original Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross RE-PRESENTED; Not represented ; That is to say: even Jesus can only die once; so this Sacrifice of Jesus is “repeated” in its original form and action until time eternal.

The practice of religious believes is termed “faith” precisely because THAT is what God expects from each of us. Are we to presume that GOD cannot do this?

Mt. 28: 20 {ALSO Literal} “ [20] {YOU}Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

   Forth: This Dogma of the Catholic Faith is the very foundation of ALL forms of Christianity: …If THIS is not true; then Christianity itself id a lie.

   Fifth:  There exist no greater; no more compelling reason to be an informed Practicing Catholic than this REALITY; which miracle of MIRACLES allows humanity to confront, to meet ALMIGHTHY GOD on His terms while still here on earth.

   Sixth: This is SUCH a critically important belief that God has performed multiple Eucharistic Miracles to AID the unbelievers in their unbelief; Do NOT be another Doubting Thomas:

John 20: 24-29 “ [24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. [25]The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. [26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. [27] Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.[28] Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. [29] Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.” 

Seventh: I have here in my office a photograph taken by a fellow Marian Catechist, of Father John A. Hardon S.J. {a mentor and occasional teacher of mine; may he Rest in Peace} taken in 1998 {if memory serves} where Father after Mass was placing Jesus on “display” for ADORATON, and a miracle took place and the actual FACE of Jesus appeared on the Consecrated host. {Termed Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament} As a FYI: Jesus does miracles to AID the faith of someone. No doubt in MY opinion; there was someone {likely a Catholic}present who doubted the Real Presence; and confided the same to Father; who prayed for a Miracle of Faith. {I’m going to attempt to attached it here; but I don’t really know HOW to do so, so I’ll attempt to Copy and Paste it here.} IN ANY CASE I SUGGEST YOU GOOLGE “Eucharistic Miracles” which ALL are independently investigated by non-Catholic experts before they are attested as Miracles by the RCC.  

I pray my friend, that THIS answers your excellent and courageous question. Thank you;

Patrick {see the file attached}

 

 

 

 

Fr Hardon and Christ in the Eucharist.docx

[Patrick Miron]

On 8/31/2018 at 5:38 PM, HAZARD said:

 Scripture proves the Lords supper is the outward rite in which believers eat broken bread, not real flesh, and drink the fruit of the vine, not real blood, to COMMEMORATE the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus Christ until He comes again (READ, Matt. 26:26-30; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-30), there is not excuse for believing otherwise.



The "symbols," the "bread" and the "wine," will always remain just that, "literal bread and wine" regardless of who or what prayer is said over them.

No man can change these elements into Jesus Christs real flesh and blood or call Him down from His Heavenly throne every day, several times every day, in thousands of churches throughout the world, in any sense. To believe otherwise is pure paganism, idolatry, and superstition.

Transubstantiation was declared and decreed by Pope Innocent 111 in the year 1215 A.D. By this doctrin the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during Mass. T

he Gospel condems such absurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19,, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:26). The adoration of the wafer (HOST) was invented by Pope Honorius in 1220 A.D. The Catholic Church also made it obligatory to have communion at leats one per week, and even every day if possible. Priests have communion four or five times per day, which means, every time they say mass.

Jesus Himself concurred that the wine was purely symbolic of the blood He shed for mankind when He said, and its recorded in three places in the New Testament;

Matthew 26:29  But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mark 14:25  Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

 

Friend, I just spent  3 days {MANY hours} preparing a detailed and evidenced POST with I JUST sharred on this issue; please do yourself a favor a read it

God Bless you

[Patrick Miron]

22 hours ago, Willa said:

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Jesus is saying that eating His flesh and partaking of His blood profits nothing.  It is His words that impart grace and life.  This is the key to understanding the passage.

Actually that IS NOT what Jesus is saying.

I just POSTED a lengthy evidenced explanation; PLEASE READ IT; then if you still want to discuss this passage I will gladly do so?

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[Patrick Miron]

On 8/31/2018 at 5:38 PM, HAZARD said:

 Scripture proves the Lords supper is the outward rite in which believers eat broken bread, not real flesh, and drink the fruit of the vine, not real blood, to COMMEMORATE the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus Christ until He comes again (READ, Matt. 26:26-30; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-30), there is not excuse for believing otherwise.



The "symbols," the "bread" and the "wine," will always remain just that, "literal bread and wine" regardless of who or what prayer is said over them.

No man can change these elements into Jesus Christs real flesh and blood or call Him down from His Heavenly throne every day, several times every day, in thousands of churches throughout the world, in any sense. To believe otherwise is pure paganism, idolatry, and superstition.

Transubstantiation was declared and decreed by Pope Innocent 111 in the year 1215 A.D. By this doctrin the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of the people during Mass. T

he Gospel condems such absurdities. Holy Communion is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ (Luke 22:19,, 20; John 6:35; 1 Cor:26). The adoration of the wafer (HOST) was invented by Pope Honorius in 1220 A.D. The Catholic Church also made it obligatory to have communion at leats one per week, and even every day if possible. Priests have communion four or five times per day, which means, every time they say mass.

Jesus Himself concurred that the wine was purely symbolic of the blood He shed for mankind when He said, and its recorded in three places in the New Testament;

Matthew 26:29  But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mark 14:25  Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

 

PLEASE read the lengthy REPLY that I just posted; DO THAT and I will gladly answer any OTHER issues you may still have

 

Thank you,

Patrick

[Behold]

A  C-Priest has no "power" to turn a wafer and grape juice into the literal blood and body of Yeshua.

Mary is not the queen of heaven.

Mary is not going to meet you at your death and lead you into paradise.

Mary is not, and  was not a perpetual virgin, and in fact had other children.

Peter is not the 1st Pope.

There is no such thing as purgatory.

It is impossible to pray the dead out of hell, and to charge money for this service is the devil's work.

Catholicism is a man made cult that forbids priests from engaging in  (Marriage and  the normal heterosexual sexuality activity associated with it) , and because C-Priest's  are forced into this "doctrine of devils" (according to the NT)  lifestyle, many or perhaps most of them find this unnatural restriction and unbearable suppression of their God given sex drive too much to bear, and many find relief and release at the expense of innocent children.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Behold

[other one]

10 hours ago, Yowm said:

Well, I guess I'll have to change my religion then.

Wait! Isn't there a totally different way?

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(Joh 14:6)
 

Meaning that he is the one who decides who will receive eternity with him and the Father.....    so let us not put him in a box as to how he selects or more importantly who he can not accept.

[other one]

57 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Yet there are parameters such as...

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(Joh 14:6) 

Meaning 'the Way' as in only one as compared to 'a' way, as in many. It's in the Person of Jesus that salvation is found.

I'm ok with that as long as we don't try and define who he should and shouldn't save...